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Mason welcomes nutritionist, author, actor, podcaster, yoga teacher and public figure, Lola Berry, on to the show today, for a grounded and insightful chat on the art of failure, and how to repurpose the energy behind adversity and loss into the creation of something beautiful, purposeful, and close to your heart.

Having ventured into the world of acting from the tender age of 18, Lola is no stranger to rejection. Anyone who operates within an industry where the stakes are high and the failure rate is about 99%, has to have thick skin. Lola has just that. 

As a hard working triple Virgo, and self proclaimed A type personality, Lola always digs deep, choosing to fuel her pursuits through embodied optimism, a stance that allows her to embrace personal setbacks with the gumption of the phoenix rising; the one who recognises that renewal and rejuvenation can be found in the fiery ashes of the alchemical process. 

It's refreshing to hear Lola speak to failure as something that is workable, a medium that is malleable and open to interpretation, especially as the fear of failure is so often associated with people not taking action on the dreams and visions that lay dormant inside them, waiting to be birthed and appreciated by the world at large.

Lola teaches us that with an open and hopeful heart, diligent gestures of effort, and an unwavering belief in the infinite possibilities available to those who try, success is always an option, no matter what that may mean to each individual. 

Mason and Lola speak to the value in consistently seeking support, celebrating therapy as an integral component to self evolution, grace and forward momentum.

Lola's enthusiasm, unapologetic passion and grounded authentic nature are such a balm, her welcoming, encouraging and inspiring presence reminding us that failure need not be an obstacle in the pursuit of our passions, more so a stepping stone that enables us to reimagine our trajectory with humility, patience and a willingness to prevail. 

"You can live a really great life and be really kind and care about your community and that's beautiful and awesome and potentially a little bit easier. And then that next level where you're like, "Well, hang on. I've got this drive to fill something that is necessary to fill for my being in this lifetime, on this journey." You're choosing to fan this flickering little flame inside your heart. You're choosing to be like, "All right, I'm going to stand here and fan it, even if it's uncomfortable and hard and scary."

- Lola Berry. 

Lola & Mason discuss:

• Embracing failure as a tool for self evolution.
• The brutal nature of the acting industry.
• Trusting the unknown & feeding your soul fire.
• The power of living in alignment with your personal truth.
• Mental health and the value in seeking the support of a therapist. 
• Being an open vessel for spirit to work through.

Who is Lola Berry?

Lola has been active in the media world in Australia for over a decade; speaking on TV shows such as; Studio 10, The Today Show, Mornings. Plus, she’s a best selling author and has written 11 health and wellness books. Lola has a podcast called “Fearlessly Failing with Lola Berry” where she interviews notable profiles about their highs and lows, aimed at inspiring others to chase their dreams.

Lola is also a qualified nutritionist (bachelor of health science majoring in nutritional medicine). She’s open, honest and speaks with no filter about her own life experiences; from her recent IVF journey to her body and mental health issues, all in a bid to help others.  

Lola also has a strong social media presence; 178K Instagram followers, 145K Facebook fans and regularly works as an ambassador for social and digital campaigns. Lola’s trademark wit, warmth and honesty is what sets her apart from others.

Resource guide

Guest Links
Lola's Instagram
Lola's TikTok
Lola's Facebook
Lola's Linkedin

Mentioned In This Episode
Fearlessly Failing Book
Fearlessly Failing Podcast

Related Podcasts
Moving Towards Destiny with Harmony with Marcus Pearce (EP#181)

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Check Out The Transcript Below:

 

Mason:

Lols, best nickname ever. I just heard that for the first time.

Lola Berry:

Do you reckon?

Mason:

Yeah, I like it a lot.

Lola Berry:

Take it, it's all yours.

Mason:

Well, I can't use it.

Lola Berry:

Well, you never know.

Mason:

But does it stick in LA, when you're doing the improv and that? Do they froth on it?

Lola Berry:

I think so. Americans love saying "Lola", because it sounds so different when an American says "Lola" versus an Australian, but any Australian I catch up with in LA is like, "Lols!" I think it's an Aussie thing to shorten and make our own version of everything.

Mason:

Heck, yeah.

Lola Berry:

You know?

Mason:

But it's just so perfect, doing the comedy classes and the improv classes.

Lola Berry:

Right? Scary and-

Mason:

Yeah. Getting some lols.

Lola Berry:

Yeah. Well, fingers crossed, trying. But I feel like you'd be so good at it.

Mason:

At what?

Lola Berry:

Improv. Comedy.

Mason:

Getting there.

Lola Berry:

Yeah?

Mason:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lola Berry:

I love that, throwing it back at you straight away.

Mason:

Oh, I love it as well. If you want to talk about me for an hour, everybody... But yeah, as I was just sharing with you, I'm at that point where I'm putting in the hard yards at the moment and steering the ship and doing my karmic time steering this thing.

 

I did create it, and it is my responsibility to get it to a particular resonance and point and structure where I'm comfortable with it scaling, while having particular things like a constitution, which I call the classic text that really guards the Spirit, and make sure that I've got that Spirit locked and then I get excited chatting about it on your podcast.

 

It really does excite me to enter into that space because that's such a... And I'm interested to hear about why you've gone down that route. You had the career in wellness and you already had presenting skills and you'd written all these books and you've written all these wellness books and these recipe books, and then I guess you'd say personal development started emerging. Yet there's something there that wasn't refined and expressed, and you've gone and continued to go beyond your boundaries and go and explore the acting, the improv, the comedy when it wasn't necessary.

Lola Berry:

I guess you would say it wasn't necessary, but do you know what actually led to it, was I was 30 and I went through a crappy breakup, just one with no closure. So because I didn't have closure... I'm an A-type personality, triple Virgo overthinker, so just couldn't let go. And a friend was like, "You just got to go to therapy." And I was like, "No, that's a weakness. I'm strong. I'm A-type..." I was like, "No, no." And they were like, "Trust me, find a therapist." And I was referred to a therapist and I never looked back.

 

We packed that breakup up in three sessions and I go, "Hey, can I come back?" And he's like, "Well, yeah." And I was like, "I just want to get clear on what makes me feel good, what my values are, what my passions are, and honouring them." And I reckon, not even a month in, I sat with my therapist. And I don't mean, when I say this, that I didn't enjoy my career because I had a great career in the wellness space. Books, the works, touring. Loved it, right?

Mason:

One of the OGs.

Lola Berry:

Yeah, loved it. How lucky, right? But I said to my therapist, I was like, "I think I'm living my backup career." He was like, "Okay, so what would you do if failure wasn't an option, if fear wasn't an option, if the fear of being judged wasn't an option?" I was like, "I'd go back to acting school," because that's what I did straight out of high school. He's like, "All right, you better get back to acting school."

 

And so, I did that at 31. I've just turned 38 two weeks ago. I've been consistently training ever since then, and I haven't stopped therapy since then, either.

Mason:

I learned two things to ask. I did go through the tools section of Fearlessly Failing, the book. The book's called Fearlessly Failing as well, right?

Lola Berry:

Yeah. And the pod.

Mason:

And the pod. I think you opened the tools section with therapy and you were saying you can write a book on therapy alone, which I think would be interesting because at the moment, I was reflecting on just having someone to talk at and rant at and have these random conversations. I'm two years in. I was very scoffy at that kind of talk therapy because it's so cathartic. You're a yoga teacher. There's spiritual experiences we have or maybe plant medicine experiences, but nothing can compare to these cathartic ones. But then, you do so much of that and you live on the edge so much, and then you get a little talkies.

 

And yeah, sure, you could go the Crocodile Dundee route where he goes, "Doesn't he have any mates? Why does he go to therapy?" And they're like, "Well, kind of different relationship," but I'm interested to hear the significance of talk therapy for you. Because I think a lot of people are at that point when they're living on the edge and they're ready to push. Did you have any trouble finding anyone? Was there a particular school of therapy that you were like, "Oh, I just didn't like the institutionalised one versus these ones that were connected to something"? How did you get through that?

Lola Berry:

When I was living in Sydney, I had a different therapist altogether, much more around... I had just come out of an eating disorder and emotional eating was my coping mechanism, so a tough day would mean polishing off block of Cadbury's Marvellous Creations. That was my full coping mechanism for anything that was hard emotionally.

 

I had a therapist for that when I was living in Sydney and it wasn't I didn't trust the therapist, I didn't feel safe. The therapist was great, I just hadn't found the style of a therapy... I guess not the style of therapy, but the style of therapist and the character traits that I needed to fill up my cup, I guess.

Mason:

Do you reckon that was based on the person or the philosophy of therapy and psychology that they were following?

Lola Berry:

Maybe the philosophy. Because you and I have talked about the styles of therapy that we both like, and my therapist that I'm with now is trained in so... Yes, he's a trained psychotherapist, but he's also very Jung-based. Then he's also lived in India. He's also a trained hypnotherapist, so if I'm really struggling, he'll just be like, "Shut your eyes" and I won't even realise I'm being hypnotised. I'll just think that I'm doing a visualisation and I won't...

 

Literally, I think a year in I was like, "Oh, so you're a hypnotherapist?" He's like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Oh, one day we should do hypno." And he's like, "Are you kidding? We've been doing it every session nearly, Lola." And I was like, "I thought that was just an active meditation, a visualisation."

 

And so, for me, it's obviously finding somebody that's definitely got those more spiritual anchors, but then also grounded in the... For me as well, having someone that's got that no-bullshit approach. I needed that, personally. And I also needed somebody because I'm someone that can spiral into chaos quite easily.

Mason:

I thought you were about to say... Because I feel like, this is in a very good way, because you're so charismatic and you're a presenter, you're probably someone who can bullshit professionals.

Lola Berry:

Yeah. I'm sure, I'm sure.

Mason:

Is that when you mean someone... Maybe you said no-bullshit, but you know what I mean? Someone who can-

Lola Berry:

Cut through.

Mason:

... cut through and see it?

Lola Berry:

Yeah. Well, I remember, that breakup was the first thing that got me to that therapist. He moved me through a few other breakups after that, and one day I walked in and I was like, "Ugh." He goes, "Lola, how long do you want to keep dating us? How long do you want to do it? We can keep working through this same pattern that you are choosing to put yourself in." And it took just that no-filter approach with me that I was like, "Ah, okay. I'm clearly consistently tripping myself up here, out of some kind of self-sabotage." And then we go back and do childhood work.

 

I do love the plant medicine-y stuff as well. And so I'll be like, "Hey, I'm going to go do this really spiritual thing." And he's like, "Great, come back on the other side of that and we'll work through it together." Or we'll do dream therapy stuff together. I don't know. [inaudible 00:08:21] is a bit of everything.

Mason:

I do know there was a lot of people listening who are going, "Can you give me some help on what I'm actually looking for here?" When I was going through real hard times trying to reconcile what was going on with my mum because she had an aneurysm, I needed to talk to someone. And I'd gone through my plant medicine dieter's and I'd gone to Peru and done that and I just needed to land it.

 

I went and found a local therapist. They were just going on their shamanic journey, but they hadn't integrated and brought back to the base of, "Let's just talk about that. Let's just come back to your body. Let's just come back to how that relates to your childhood and all roads lead to Rome," they were just getting cracked out on, "Oh, let's go into that dream and then let's project my new spiritual beliefs." This guy literally, at one point, goes, "Why do you want to get in the way of your mum's journey going to this universe?"

Lola Berry:

Oh, wow.

Mason:

I was like, "Hey, buddy!"

Lola Berry:

Yeah. Did you call that out?

Mason:

Yeah, I think I was a little bit too timid. I think I just went, "I won't be coming back."

 

But in terms of that quality there, you said yes, lots of tools in the belt, but they're all going to lead to the same place. You kind of have, I guess, a backup career or an accidental career. What did you have to go back and reconcile from when you took that path, rather than the path of performing or acting or comedy?

 

And I'm not saying that was wrong, because I relate. Funnily, yesterday, I just went back and saw my career advice. I just went and burnt all my stuff from high school last night.

Lola Berry:

Nice.

Mason:

And I found my career advice one. The first thing was actor and the second one was journalist. And then they were, "In order to do that, you need to go to university." And then that's when it stopped. So I've had to go back and reconcile that time I tripped up in the decision-making process.

 

What did you need to move past that allowed you to go through that transmutation, that went back and face the fear? Did it take you back to certain points?

Lola Berry:

Yeah, absolutely. I remember first-year drama school. I would've been 18, just out of high school. It probably wasn't day one, but it'd be first week. I had to audition to get into this drama school, and the teacher said, "99% of you are going to be drama teachers."

 

And I was like, "Aww. Oh, didn't sign up for that!" I literally was like, "I know that's not my skillset." I just knew within my heart, I was like, "I'm not meant to be a drama teacher." And I was young enough and undeveloped mentally enough to be like, "I'm out." And then I became a DJ, of all things.

Mason:

Was the teacher a guy or a girl?

Lola Berry:

Male.

Mason:

It was a male teacher.

Lola Berry:

Yeah. Does that track for you?

Mason:

Yeah. I'm wondering what exact impact that had, or why him saying something like that was enough to take you off course and take that as complete truth.

Lola Berry:

Is interesting though, because then, I remember when I dropped out of uni, my dad was like, "Please, please, please get a degree. Please." And I was like, "My backup is nutrition. I'm going to go do that degree."

 

I remember, when I got my first gig in morning TV as a nutritionist, I was like, "Ah! All meant to be! Passions collide!" All my training at drama school has come in handy so that I am present on TV, a sense of even though you're being yourself on television, all that drama training came in handy, understanding where the different cameras are on a multi-cam set, stuff like that.

 

And I was like, "Oh, this is meant to happen. I was meant to do half a degree of drama school and then I was meant to go to nutrition." At the time, I thought it was all serendipitous. I thought all that training was all for a reason. Pulling out of drama school to do nutrition was for a reason. And also, my first book I wrote when I was 22, I felt like it was all...

Mason:

The 20/20 or no?

Lola Berry:

The first one, I did a self-published one called Inspiring Ingredients at 22, and then 20/20 happened straight after that. That was my first published book deal, but I did a little self-publishing when I was really young.

Mason:

Sorry, what was that one called?

Lola Berry:

Inspiring Ingredients. All plant-based.

Mason:

Of course.

Lola Berry:

And even the cover, my handwriting was the font. I got my cousin to do all the photos for it. There still is a recipe in there for a granola with rhubarb. Didn't put the rhubarb part of the recipe in the book. It's just missing forever. It's that. But it worked and there were 3000 copies, it was my first ever kind of thing.

 

Actually, in all honesty, I trusted and believed that the two were meant to... And I think I was meant to have that wellness/nutrition career, I think that I was meant to do that for sure. And I still love it. I've just come off a tour where I've gone around... And yes, I've talked about failure when I was on stage, but initially, they wanted me to talk about being plant-based. I had to be like, "No, no. I'd love to talk about failure because that's kind of my jam right now."

Mason:

Well, what's that like? I imagine it was just as much of an altering of your brand as altering the identity. You'd tied up your identity with that part, that Lola stage. How have you handled that transition when you go and talk at these things and they're like, "No, give me another recipe for a bliss ball!"?

Lola Berry:

Do you know how hard it is? Honestly, it's so hard.

Mason:

Yeah, I'd love to hear the ins and outs of it.

Lola Berry:

Yes, especially in Australia. That's one of the reasons I love America, because in America you're like, "Yeah, so I've written all these health and wellness books as well," and they're like, "Oh, amazing!" They think it's an add-on, an added skillset, happy days.

 

In Australia, I can't even get an acting agent. And that's the honest truth of it. Because they're like, "No, you're our wellness girl. You're a wellness girl, you're a nutritionist." And I'm like, "No, but I've done seven years of training in the best acting schools in the world," not even in Australia. And I'm like, "I'm ready. Just somebody open a door."

 

But the thing that a lot of people don't know is that there is a huge gap between acting school and being a working actor. And it's not out of the 99% failure rate or any of that, it's because nobody teaches you the work part of it, the business side of it, which is why I think you are totally going to succeed. Because that's the trick. That's the magic. I think it's the magic part of the puzzle that is not there for most people.

 

And so, you need to find a way to bridge this gap between doing all this amazing training and getting your talent schmick and your skillset ready. There's a theory. Stay ready for acting stuff. But then you can't get an acting agent, it's so hard. Especially in Australia.

 

And it's not like you get a response like, "No, thanks. We've got voices that sound like yours or people that look like you," you just get donuts. No response, no nothing. So, straight out of acting school, you're in the pool of rejection, and constant rejection.

 

And so for me, I've actually learned to love this other side of myself, the nutrition, the writing, all of that. I'm like, "Oh, my god. I get to do this other thing that I love while I'm working my butt off to be taken seriously as an actor." I thought it would be a clear-cut no more health, no more nutrition, no more Australia, go to America, next Margot Robbie. Uh-uh. That is like a 10-year journey.

 

Now I'm actually learning that this past that I had that I loved, I can still love. And it can still mean that I can put food on the table and it can still mean that I can save for my LA ticket to go on the flight. I'm learning to just be a bit more fluid with it, but also trusting that my business [inaudible 00:16:36] and brains will carry me and help do that bridge for me to get into the businessy side of it, which is getting an agent, understanding how to do a self-tape in 60 seconds.

 

The turnaround is crazy. Once you do have management, you'll get sent a script, what time is it now? 11? You get sent a script at 11, you need to submit that by 2:00 PM, same day. Sometimes in Australia, off-book as well, so, learning your lines. Wild, right? But until you get that opportunity, it's like you're in this vortex of rejection. Wild.

Mason:

Is that why you've chosen failure, through that experience, as such a theme of the podcast and the book?

Lola Berry:

Probably. Because the podcast started after all the drama training. So, probably. I might've done it subconsciously, I don't know. But it's this celebration of failure that I love because that's where we get to stretch, grow. And especially in improv school, acting school, you literally just get so comfortable with, "Right. I'm going to fail and it's going to be a great thing because I get to learn something about myself or face a blind spot." That's what I love about failure.

Mason:

So the identity shift, it's very macro, it's industry, one industry to another industry. And Australia is kind of like that, it's not so much of the dare to dream, keep on changing." It's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa! You've got a good career. Settle down, mate, and just enjoy it." Whereas America's just like, "Oh, my god! You got an idea? You're incredible!"

Lola Berry:

"And you do this?"

Mason:

They love freedom so much. There's just zero tall poppy. I go there and I love it, and after two weeks-

Lola Berry:

They'd love you.

Mason:

But after two weeks, I'm like, "Oh, get me back to some cynicism to bring me back down to earth!"

Lola Berry:

The trick around that is you just hang with a few Aussies. You keep a few. I've got a couple of Australian friends that'll be like... And that's the trick with LA. Yes, there's a lot of fluff, there's a lot of fake, dah, dah, dah. But then, in amongst all that are the people that have stuck it out, and they're usually pots of gold.

Mason:

Heck yeah. That's a big macro shift, industry to industry. If you thought at one point, you're like, "Cool, I'm just going to close the door on my wellness career" and then that's great, but then you're like, "Okay, no. There's a reality here. Continue it," then I imagine your philosophy continues to change. How have you shifted from speaking and advocating for one particular angle of nutrition to talking about it in a more nuanced and bringing up your shifts and changes? I imagine they've happened.

Lola Berry:

Yeah. When my first book, Inspiring Ingredients, I was vegan and plant-based and probably the most unhealthy because I was just snacking on Medjool dates like they were going out of fashion.

Mason:

Did you put macadamia butter or almond butter on them?

Lola Berry:

Of course. Naturally, as one should. Then I went down the paleo route and then went down the bulletproof coffee, loved a bit of ghee in my coffee. Which is still delicious, don't get me wrong.

 

I think now I'm just, and this is going to sound very esoterical, but I'm just like, "Whatever makes me feel good." And that can also be mindfully going out and having a meal that I wouldn't normally have on any specific regime or diet. Now I'm just like, "Do what feels right." And even my nutrition clients, I'll... You can't give the same advice for the same people. It's like fingerprints. We're all different, right? Body's the same.

Mason:

I love that approach. It was a few years ago where you started seeing the emergence of, be in touch with your body, be in touch with your Spirit, listen to what's right for you, and make choices from that angle. It was kind of the equivalent of that '60s free sex movement where everyone just went, "Let's just spray it everywhere, do whatever we want!" And then they're like, "All right, let's tighten this up a little bit now. There's a roadmap to expressing ourselves."

 

Have you got somewhat of a roadmap? What are the themes that pop up when your clients and people are in that phase where they're like, "Oh, I'm out of dogma and I'm going to listen to myself, but there's different dimensions of myself." Have you got somewhat of a philosophy and a roadmap around how to get into that?

Lola Berry:

Yeah. To be completely honest with you, most clients just come to be heard. That's the truth.

Mason:

Hurt?

Lola Berry:

Heard.

Mason:

Oh, heard.

Lola Berry:

Heard. It's not, "Lola, give me a plan. I want to..." Athletes will come to me, they want their macros and micros broken down. You're working on a very specific that is very logical, that's very linear. You're working with a coach, you're working with the athlete, and you're working with a very specific box of constraints.

Mason:

Oh, cool.

Lola Berry:

Quite different, so fun. And you might be focused on anti-inflammatory with them. And that's a very stylized way of living and eating, but it's goal-focused.

 

But most people that come to me just want to be heard. I'll be like, "Look, I just need a diet diary where you don't lie for one week and then we'll take our session." Everyone lies. Guys, stop it. Everyone lies on their diet because they don't want to be judged, which I get. But usually, when you open up, and I'll just share. I'll be like, "Ah, mate, I smashed a few blocks of this last week!" If I share what people would call a wobble or a trip-up, usually then the client will open up and be like, "Yeah, actually I did eat that whole thing of Nutella over two days" or whatever it was.

 

Most of my clients are female. And so, the emotional eating and the more hormonal picture is what I see most commonly for me. But at the end of the day, it's people wanting to be heard.

 

I coach a lot of authors on writing books. That's more common, what I get booked for, than nutrition these days. Same thing. They want to be heard. They want their story to have legs. And you're creating a safe space where someone can share their idea, their passion, whether it's health related or they're coming up with a book or podcast idea. I'll hear it and then, I have a weird business producer's brain and all the information comes in and then I'll be like, "Right. This, this, and this is going to help you." And I'll send them on their way.

 

I have a theory, I don't really want clients to come back too many times. They should feel well enough within themselves. Same with the writing the book. The book should be out in the world or we'll get you a publishing deal kind of thing. And then you don't need me again until you write your next book, whatever. That is where the way I like to work from a practitioner base. I'm like, "Let's get you back on track, whatever the goal is, and then you're free. Go spread your wings, my friend."

Mason:

I imagine you've got enough experience as a coach and a mentor to know, "All right. There's something under the hood right here that not only are they not going to be able to share with me, but I'm going to stick to what I can give." And I imagine that's why your therapy is something where you're like... I love the fact. "I'm not going to take this on."

Lola Berry:

Yeah.

Mason:

I don't know. How do those conversations go when you do want to point out, "There's something underlying here."?

Lola Berry:

Oh, I'm pretty straight down the line. No-filter is kind of my whole jam, which is why I think I respect and like you so much. I think you're a what-you-see-is-what-you-get kind of human being. If it's a nutrition case, for example, that is much more mental health like eating disorder... Also, I need to acknowledge within myself, taking on an eating disorder case would be highly triggering for me anyway. I would say, "This is beyond the scope of my skillset. I'm going to refer you now."

 

And it either goes one or two ways. One, they trust me and move on to the person that's in the realm of that. Also, hormonal stuff, when it gets out of my scope, straight to my favourite hormonal naturopath. And it's people that I've worked with, so I know that I'm sending people on to the right hands. And I have a theory. I want the client to get the best results, and if I know I can't give them, handball it to somebody who can. I'm not in that, "You must be with me" mentality at all.

 

But around the mental health stuff, for sure I can pick up when it's more mental health than nutrition-based. A lot of the time it is, and I just refer on straight away. And I'd be really honest and be like, "A therapist is what helped me face a very similar thing that you are experiencing. I think that's going to be the best way forward for you."

 

Some clients hate it. I'm going to be real with you. It doesn't always go down well. My response, remember, was having a therapist is a weakness initially. And so, it's just being truthful and honest and not being attached to the outcome.

Mason:

I think that's a massive one, especially within entrepreneurial circles. We're motivated, we motivate ourselves.

Lola Berry:

But we still have crappy days and setbacks and rejection. Have you read The War of Art?

Mason:

The Art of War or War of Art?

Lola Berry:

I don't know. We're talking about the same thing, aren't we?

Mason:

I think so. Art of War?

Lola Berry:

Is it the Art of War?

Mason:

Yeah.

Lola Berry:

And it's that resistance versus acceptance. I don't know, anytime I'm feeling beat down or something, I'll read a few pages and I'd be like, "Yeah, I'm holding on too tight to this thing that I don't need to be holding on too tight to, essentially."

Mason:

Yeah. And that's the funny thing. When you're a coach or you're someone who's meeting a person at a time when they're trying to fix a problem or they're trying to specifically avoid something from happening or they're trying to find a way to be right or find the right decision and you're like... All we know by every wisdom text, Art of War, I-Ching, Baghavad Gita, it doesn't matter what you go to, it's all about let's make a little transformation. Just an internal transformation that leads to us being back in the flow of harmony and hopefully having acceptance and capacity for the fact that change is the only inevitable and you want to refine it as you go along.

 

This is what I was actually thinking in terms of facilitating that. That's where a nice, integrated, [inaudible 00:26:50] network of people referring to each other, rather than people who are like, "I'm sure I can be the one to help you get through this." Not appropriate.

 

When you were back in the day building the wellness career, you were doing a lot of presenting, a lot of authoring, but were you also coaching? Was that a thing?

Lola Berry:

I'm a, for many years, bachelor of health, science, nutritional medicine. I was practising as a nutritionist out the back of a smoothie bar in Melbourne, and then I would be on television. That was the main thing that carried me, built my name.

 

I started morning TV when I was 22. I remember though, I loved it. TV for me, time stopped. I was like, "Oh, this is what I..." Just the thought that someone could be eating a Mars bar watching this morning show and they're going to swap it from macadamia if they're scrolling the telly. That was my whole MO. I was like, "If I can inspire one person at home, job's a good'un. Job's done."

 

And Steve Irwin was my hero. I don't know, if I ever felt out of alignment, I just feel like, "I'm just going to watch a Steve Irwin video." Just love that unapologetic passion is kind of my whole jam.

 

I remember I'd be working at the smoothie bar, I would take clients at the back of the smoothie bar, but I would also work, literally making smoothies as well, because TV doesn't pay, right? Well, today it doesn't pay at all, but it used to pay a couple of hundred bucks a segment. I'd go on once every two weeks.

 

I remember, I was working in this smoothie bar and this quite well-known nutritionist came in that did loads of public speaking. I was like, "Oh, my god! You're so-and-so! I'm a huge fan. I've seen you talk at the Melbourne Exhibition Centre." And she goes, "I know you." And I said, "No, no, I was at the back. I never met you." But I was kind of starstruck, right? I was 23. And she goes, "No, I know you." And I said, "No, we've never ever met." She goes, "You're that nutritionist off TV." And I said, "Yeah, that's me!" And she's like, "You are a disgrace to the nutrition industry." And I go, "Okay, I'll pass that feedback on."

 

There's five or so people lined up for smoothies at this stage of the game, so they're watching all of this unfold. I'm pretty young, that's a young time to be told this. She goes, "How could anybody take you seriously by the way that you dress?" I'd always go on very Cindy Lauper. Like cool, bright red converse, big gold skirt, bright top, big bow in my hair, quite quirky, very '80s-esque. And I said, "Okay, thank you for your feedback. I'll pass it on."

 

And she goes, "I know I sound like a bitch, but I'm entitled to my opinion." And I said, "Absolutely, you are." In my mind, I was like, "Just don't cry, just don't cry, just don't cry." I made smoothies for all the other people in silence, nobody said a thing. Locked the door, ran out the back, and just bawled my eyes out.

 

I was lucky enough that I had a business partner at the time. I called him up and I was like, "Oh, my god! This just happened." And he's like, "You cannot let this person define your career. She's having a bad day, and she's highly insecure by who you are as a person and what you are doing." And he said, "You need to choose, in this moment right now, to let go." And it was the best gift ever. I was so young to get that gift. I still run into her when I'm in Melbourne and she'll run up and hug me. Same person.

Mason:

Do you think she's coming up and hugging you because you were able to alchemize the experience and not take it as a...? You didn't hold onto the projection. I imagine you don't seem like you've gone, "I'm going to show you!"

Lola Berry:

Oh, no. No, but I do have that fire within me. I'm not going to lie. I do have that. You know how I was saying there's so much rejection in acting? I'm like, "I can't wait till you guys have to eat your words." I've got that within me because it hurts to feel rejection and to feel judged. I'm sure, at some stage along that journey, there has been moments of, "I really do want to use this to fire me up because it hurts so bad," but it's not the right... There goes the whole theory of acceptance and just letting go. But I am human and I definitely have those moments of getting really riled and fired up when I'm hurt.

Mason:

If she's coming up and hugging you now, I know... That's something that happened to me recently, where I know someone had thrown some barbs at the business and they were a new competitor and we just didn't react, went through the same experience. It's now one of the virtues the business runs, alchemy. Turn shit into gold.

Lola Berry:

Oh, I love this!

Mason:

But that person came up to me recently and was like, "I respect what you do so much," and we had a really great conversation.

 

And I was reflecting on it. I've had many experiences like that. I'm like, "That wouldn't have happened if I held the resentment, if I pushed anything towards them rather than taking that weight and not putting it against them, but using it to grow me." And it sounds like you've done something similar. There's no way you have an amicable outcome if you didn't do that.

Lola Berry:

Yeah, true. And I think as well, I am good. I can sit in the pain for a bit, and now this is where therapy's come in. Process it. Be like, "What's the gift in this? There's got to be some kind of silver lining." And then I'll just let it go. The pain or the hurt or the uncomfortable, I'll be like, "Okay, this is what I can take from it. This is what I can learn from it." And then I'll let go.

 

So obviously, there was then no resentment whatsoever. And so, I would've felt completely neutral, I think, when I saw her. But you're going even a step further than me, where you're like-

Mason:

I don't even think I am. I think it's the exact same quality. Because it is very hard and the heavier the barb is, the harder it is to go through that process. But quite often, you're going to get two types of people. One is the person that's like, when they're accepting their award, they're like, "And this is for all the teachers that said I'd never amount anything!" And I'm like, "Ugh."

 

I really respect that there are people like that, and I just can't feel inspired at all because it's a combustion engine. It's using others' stuff that they throw at you to propel yourself forward. So you're always needing to reject and prove and be externally oriented, versus the other angle, where those people who can... They don't get stuck in that process.

 

I'm interested in that process for you because sometimes, when people look and go, "How did that person get successful? I don't understand. That wellness career or that entrepreneur or that athlete, what is the thing that enabled them to do that?" And it's when you have a barb thrown at you and you're like... I think this is one of the things, there's obviously many, but as you said, you had your projection.

 

I kind of tell everyone that. I tell my team this. I'm like, "Go on and have a bitch about me or call me a..." of this person. "Have a bitch in an appropriate place to an appropriate person, but then take responsibility of processing it and don't be externally oriented. Go internal and figure out where you need to go."

 

That's a tricky thing to suggest because you get stuck. You get stuck on childhood stuff, old insecurities. Because the letting go, it's bandied around a lot. I imagine there's more than you just going, "Oh, look at that. It's magically just gone!"

Lola Berry:

I wish it was that easy. No, I think you're right. I think it's accepting that okay, this thing hurts. This thing is uncomfortable. If I can't get my head around it and through therapy as well, I'll be like, "Maybe this isn't about me." And then I'll be like, "Okay, this could be about the person on the other side of the email, the person that's giving the barb. Might have nothing to do with me at all. And me holding onto this resentment and this anger and this fire is like that..." What's that saying, where you're drinking the poison when you're wanting it for someone? You know how...?

Mason:

I think I know what you mean.

Lola Berry:

You're saying something where you're wishing ill upon somebody else, but you're really just feeding yourself the poison.

Mason:

That's also the pointing one finger at the other person, you've got three fingers pointed back at yourself.

Lola Berry:

Correct, exact same. Exact same ball game. I sometimes will have a moment of being like, "Okay, for me, this brings up X, Y, and Z. Not being worthy enough, all my self-doubt stuff, all my insecurities." And understanding what they are, because like you said, they're going to bubble up to the surface. And then be like, okay, "Well, that's why I feel like coping with it this way or that way," which can be the fiery resentment stuff, which for me can still be emotional eating or can be over exercising just to be like, "No, no, no, I'm productive, I'm productive, I'm productive."

 

There are all these different things that we can do to band-aid things, as opposed to just being like, "All right, let's sit in the shit. Let's sit in it." And sometimes, it doesn't mean that you're going to feel better tomorrow or the day after or even the day after that. It's just not needing to shy away from it, welcoming the uncomfortability of that. I don't even know if "uncomfortability" is a word, but sitting in the discomfort. And I think then you can move through it, as opposed to letting go.

Mason:

Yeah, thanks for fleshing it out.

Lola Berry:

Does that feel a bit...?

Mason:

Oh, yeah. It already felt great and I just knew... The people listening, your patients, the people you're mentoring, I think it's that same feeling, it's always worth going that little bit further in sharing what's under the hood when these experiences happen.

 

Because a lot of people talk about letting go, but a lot of people really haven't... I know that don't have the real intricate experience of what occurred there. And people listening, they really need to hear the grittiness of it and the shittiness of it, because the people listening here, likewise, people continue on the journey with you. They're engaging with their life, they're driving towards their destiny. And because they're engaged, they're going to pull up shit that could have very happily sat there and they never had to pull it up. And then likewise, they're not going to get out of the fog unless they go through it.

Lola Berry:

I also think, and this isn't to do a generalisation at all, but I think, how lucky are we to be in the generation now, where sitting in that mental health space and that development, emotional, spiritual, mental development is now celebrated. In our parents' era, no way, Jose.

 

I love my dad, he is my hero. To this day, I think he believes that I still see a therapist because there's something wrong with me. But I love him. He's the most beautiful, sweet, kind, honest, lovely man. But he'll be like, "Oh, so how's your sessions going with your therapy?" And he'll try to engage, and I'm like... I feel so lucky to be in this generation, where it is a celebration to sit in the discomfort.

 

The other cool thing that I think happens in that processing, uncomfy bit that we were kind of unpacking, only because I'm in something right now and I'm like, "Oh, this is what's..." When I get hurt in a business sense, I'll be like, "Oh, this feels really crappy." But I go, "Far out. I'm never going to do that to somebody else." And it becomes this epic business lesson that makes me go, "It's so easy for me to implement this one change in my business just because I get to feel how shitty it feels to be on the receiving end of it." That's kind of a cool silver lining to a really crappy thing.

Mason:

Yeah. Hell, yeah. Along that, I was thinking about a question you were asking me and I hadn't really thought about it. I've been thinking about it a lot for the last two weeks in terms of, do I look for a certain type of person or is there a certain type of person that's inspiring me and what are those qualities? I enjoyed really stumbling my way through answering it. But I'm interested for yourself, what you're on the lookout for these days now versus a decade ago.

Lola Berry:

I get so emotional talking about this, but it's just truthfulness and that sounds really, really hippie, I know, and wellness-y and esoteric, but I just think, choosing to work in the world of acting, which to me is a beautiful study of human behaviour and a human being, being human, that's good acting to me. To me, I'm like, "How lucky that I get to study what it is to make a human being human?" And obviously we're all complex, we're all different.

 

And so, when I meet somebody that feels like they are living true to themselves in some way... And I know we talked on my pod about there's different variations of that, different schools of thought on it. But at the end of the day, this essence of when you meet someone and you're like, "They feel alive. They feel like they're living their truth," that gets me so amped up and that feeds my internal fire. I'm like, "Oh, that makes me want to live my truth unapologetically."

 

I do think that style of human being is slightly rare. Not slightly, very rare. I think it's super rare. That's what I was getting at in our pod chat as well because I believe that you have that quality.

Mason:

Yeah. And thank you.

Lola Berry:

You're welcome.

Mason:

And likewise. I think I would've been aware of you much earlier than you would've been aware of me. But at the same time, it's been nice to then...

Lola Berry:

It's been over a decade, for sure.

Mason:

It's been over a decade, yeah. I guess I did come down to Melbourne at one point and start penetrating that little emerging tonic herb and medicinal mushroom crew that was down there. So it's been interesting.

 

And likewise, I love the cadence of your journey through this career. I like hearing about pivots and adjustments that don't come through rejection of the past. It's one of the things I really value about the way that you've integrated that wellness world and then engaged so heavily with that path of yourself, which feels like the truest and highest currently. And it's been difficult and it's been hard.

 

I think that's rad and I think it's interesting. It's inspiring to me because I have more of a tendency to just cut. I can get real angry and real resentful to accidental paths that I find myself upon. And so, I'm constantly drawing inspiration from that kind of conversation.

 

In terms of someone living their truth, I was just reading a Taoist book, a book on Taoist philosophy. They were talking about there's three tiers that they would talk about a couple of thousand years ago. There are people who are just being virtuous and there for them. It's like, "I'm just going to be the best version of myself. I'm going to be a kind person. I'm going to do good by my community." That's one layer of walking the Tao, but that never actually engages with the more subtle spiritual layers.

 

Then the second tier of people who work with a deity or worship a great spirit or whatever it is, and they start to engage with walking towards an actualization of themselves or connection to something. And then the third tier, and this is just according to Taoism, is when you connect to the original, what they call pre-heavenly energy. It's in a descending energy, rather than the deity energy, which is ascending. I think this is the key distinction that comes into descending into yourself.

 

I'm just curious, and I was thinking about it, as you were saying, connecting to that truth. For you, what is it? For you, when you meet that person, what tier of being are they on versus someone... I imagine you meet lots of inspiring people in spiritual communities and high-level actors, but there's a [foreign language 00:44:08] when you meet that person who is really living that truth from an authentic way in terms of the ultimate acting, figuring out how to express yourself as a human.

Lola Berry:

Oh, I want to know this book, by the way.

Mason:

Yeah, I'll share it with you. I think I've got it on my desk. I'm probably going to have the author on the podcast, guys.

Lola Berry:

Oh, amazing. Okay. Send that when it comes out, please.

Mason:

I will.

Lola Berry:

You have got me so into Taoism to the point that now, my therapist and I did a whole session on it.

Mason:

Did you really?

Lola Berry:

Yeah.

Mason:

That's where Jungian came from.

Lola Berry:

I've been taking these Shen herbs, you know what I mean? And [inaudible 00:44:44] and-

Mason:

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Lola Berry:

And I was like, "Can we talk about these dreams I'm having, because they're all masculine-focused, all the male energies I've had in my life throughout..." I literally unpack a different relationship each dream. Wild!

Mason:

Far out. Let me go therapy on you. That drama teacher, another male.

Lola Berry:

Right? It's so interesting though. This is going to sound like I might be dumbing down what you've just said, but it's what I thought about when you were saying that.

 

I had a drama teacher, another male drama teacher, and he said we all have this little spark in our heart. But it's up to us to fan it and to turn that tiny little flicker into a flame and to a wildfire.

 

I think the way you were talking about you can live a really great life and be really kind and care about your community and that's beautiful and awesome and potentially a little bit easier. And then that next level where you're like, "Well, hang on. I've got this drive to fill something that is necessary to fill for my being in this lifetime, on this journey." You're choosing to fan this flickering little flame inside your heart. You're choosing to be like, "All right, I'm going to stand here and fan it, even if it's uncomfortable and hard and scary." And then this pre-heavenly vibe, I think that's when, as an artist or a creative, it's no longer about the artist or creative. It's about something much bigger than themselves.

 

I am not saying this is me at all, but I will say, the whole reason why I love acting so much... For nearly all of my acting training, I was like, "Oh, this is so good for TV presenting. Oh, I want to be the next Steve Colbert!" And I still love to do all that, by the way. But I remember, I was doing a scene from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, which is a Tennessee Williams play. I was Maggie the cat, and she is mad and she is fiery and she is sexy, and she just... Anyway, it's eight-minute-long monologues. I was doing this scene, acting, classmates in the bleachers, working one-on-one with the director. At some point, it was like an out-of-body experience. All I could feel was energy running through my veins.

 

And I was like, "Oh, this is bigger than me! This is not me looking at which cameras I'll look at on a TV set. This is not learning script analysis. This is me honouring something that was written many, many years ago." The way Tennessee Williams writes is, he believes that he has a vision and sees a woman walking through the fog. And that's how he writes all his leading ladies like Blanche Dubois, Maggie the Cat. One of the great playwrights of America and potentially the world. Love Tennessee Williams. And it just felt otherworldly, bigger than me.

 

I remember, it was my last night at drama school before I went to America, and I just walked over the director and I couldn't stop... I just put my hand on my heart and I said, "Thank you. That felt like something I'd never felt before." And he was like, "Absolutely my pleasure." But it was this thing that was bigger than me, and I wasn't doing it for the audience, and I wasn't doing it for myself. It was honouring this much more... And this is where they say the artists of the world are the ones that get to touch hearts. I hope that gives some kind of...

Mason:

Absolutely.

Lola Berry:

Do you know what I mean? It's bigger than an award or learning a script. It is honouring this thing that isn't even... You're merely a vessel.

Mason:

I imagine that's the kind of thing, although great to have awards, although great to get particular jobs, not saying that's not amazing and... You've got to be in the world as well. But yeah, something that makes it so that you have an experience and it becomes...

 

One, what you said was interesting. Working with the intention of the playwright. That's something we have a gobbly kind of culture that's like, "Yup, I want to honour it, but I've got my thing."

Lola Berry:

"Here's my version." Yeah.

Mason:

"My interpretation, which I think is also fun and can be done almost with consent, even though..."

Lola Berry:

It's almost part of the process, but it shouldn't be the end goal.

Mason:

Consensual and respect, having deep respect to the source, it's something that's kind of a bit rare, to have real honour and respect for the seed from which where this came and realising it's not a moral thing. You are literally just going to branch off and break off and disconnect, and then you're in limbo.

 

I think we've lost the capacity to... Whether it's acting, talk a lot about Steven Buhner book, The Secret Teachings of Plants, and he teaches you how that heart perception keeps you in reality with coming back to a source intention. And keeps you in connection with reality, which is when you are fanning the flames. That's a skillset, which I think you'd really...

Lola Berry:

I'm taking a photo of that book.

Mason:

You can borrow it if you want. It's been sitting here for a while, sort of nice [inaudible 00:50:11] little bit of a-

Lola Berry:

I'll read it.

Mason:

... page-turner.

Lola Berry:

Oh yes, please.

Mason:

So yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And it's almost nice... We talk about it and I can feel you there. And I'm like, "I'm with you." Just how incredible and epic and big that is. And then at the same time, coming out of that and then allowing that to be a normalised experience and a normalised skill.

Lola Berry:

And you tell another actor or artist that story and they're like, "Ah, angel walked past the stage." They see it as otherworldly. And they're like, "You're lucky if it happens a few times in your career." And I was like, "Whoa!" To live knowing that that exists and then to choose a career where you're, not always shooting for it, but honouring that that is a possibility, to me is just like, "Sign me up!"

Mason:

Yeah. And you're working with a muse. You're really working with with someone.

Lola Berry:

 Yeah, big time. How else? How else could you connect to that? And even the director said, he said, "There was a moment where Lola became Maggie, and Maggie became Lola." There was this moment where it was just like... And it just flicks over and something changes. Spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically. And that's the stuff that I'm like, "How did I not know this existed until I'm 32 years..." I think I was 32 or 33 when that happened. I was like, "How cool that I'm experiencing this brand new thing now?" And for all the nutrition books and all the times on telly talking about how to make broccoli salad. You know what I mean? I was just like, "This thing exists that is bigger than me that I get to be-"

Mason:

Hang on. Did the broccoli salad have a tahini dressing?

Lola Berry:

Why, of course. I was just like, "There's this thing that's bigger-"

Mason:

Well, I don't know, that's pretty good. Yeah, heck yeah. The bigger.

 

Every industry, it's funny, it doesn't matter, you cross... We talk a lot about those that have accumulated and cultivated those experiences and connection, who go through... Then perhaps some get lost in the egoic pursuit of that experience, that same experience, those who can accept it and let it go.

 

It's nice finding people on the path, and there's lots of them, who know that that magic exists because that's probably the thing that's void the most in our culture, post-industrial blah, blah, blah, where we're going, going into AI kind of age now, so on and so forth. And everyone's gone, "Oh, let's just forget about the magic part of the... And we can just put it into science." Science and AI will be able to explain how that's not magic, that's this. Well, go into the intricacy of the experience of these kinds of things and you'll be like, "Oh, this is what we're talking about with magic."

 

And it doesn't matter how much it gets explained, the experience of it, as much as we need to integrate it and normalise it, is a key feature as well as many other intellectual, logic-based yang features that take us towards being rad, older people who can actually guide industries and businesses and this kind of thing. That's probably the thing I'm enjoying watching, the adventures of people leading towards those later elder years and being like, "Oh, I wonder how far you're going to get."

 

And then every now and then you come across these titans of those things. There is a mystery and a connection to something so original that we go through here. But I know also it's not about that. I know I need to keep on going, and they're so nonchalant and cheeky about those kinds of things. That's the cool thing. And likewise, seeing it in the arts, and I'm starting to come across people, of course within Daoism and the spiritual realms, they're there, but few and far between to be honest, at the moment. For me, getting access there, I have a lot to integrate, so I'm not calling them in. But then in the business world, it's starting to happen. It's an interesting time.

Lola Berry:

I love that you call it these people that can see and understand that magic exists. It was that director that was like... When we have an audience, when our students are watching an actor go up, a lot of actors will just look at their phone and he would turn around and he said, "The quickest way to kill art is to do exactly what you're doing." And he's like, "You're going to miss that moment where the magic happens." And I'm just like, "You know about this weird listen elixir that exists!" It just blows my mind. But that's where I think the artists and the creatives of the world really...

 

That comes back to my therapist. A year in, I go, "Hey, I went on this date with someone." Who you've met, beautiful Matt. I go, "He's a music composer and producer. He's a creative. I think I'm meant to be with a creative." And my therapist just burst into laughter and he goes, "No shit. Has it taken you this long to figure..." He's like, "You're 32. That's how long it's taken you to figure this out?" And I'm like, "Yup, yeah."

 

And there's something about that magic. I hear him compose all day. His studio is next to my little office area. And if he needs inspiration, you'll just hear it go quiet. He'll pick up an acoustic guitar and play something completely unrelated to the work that he's doing. It's like being around people that live with that possibility and open to wherever it... If it's magic, but inspiration, source stuff that's bigger than them. And then the guitar will get put down and he'll go back to work. And it's just fascinating being around that energy. And then there's the theory that we've all heard about. You are what you surround yourself with. And so for me, being creative and that honouring of magic is absolutely so important.

Mason:

Gosh. We did have good fire round in your...

Lola Berry:

Oh, rapid fire.

Mason:

I've been thinking about the rapid fire. It would be nice to build at least a bit of an anchoring strategy here at the SuperFeast podcast. I was thinking about it a little bit. Thank you for sharing, I've really enjoyed it.

Lola Berry:

This is actually one of my favourite ever podcasts I've ever done as a guest, ever.

Mason:

Heck yeah.

Lola Berry:

That's a testament to you. And can I say to the listener, Mason has no notes in front of him. Zero. Which has never happened to me before. You just trusting and it's so nice to be so connected. You're holding space to make it feel safe for me to share whatever with no filter. Which is kind of my whole goal anyway, but you as a host create a really great space for making people feel really open around you. So thank you.

Mason:

Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it. Twice yesterday, my experience has come up, throwing out all my stuff, all my things from high school. I burnt them yesterday. Kept some, took photos of some. I was really going through my report cards from all the way through high school. And I loved ad-libbing, I loved thinking laterally, and it's actually-

Lola Berry:

Standup.

Mason:

The experience. Exactly. And the experience everyone has at some point with the systems of education, just be like, "Look, no. You can't just come in without notes." But I'm like, "I do make notes. I do have these things in my head." And it's not valid. So you were just bringing that up then. I'm like, "You know what? Yeah, you're right."

Lola Berry:

No, it works for you, my friend.

Mason:

You're right.

Lola Berry:

You and I are the opposite the way that we've prepared. You saw I had pages and pages. I do about 12 hours per guest.

Mason:

Whoa!

Lola Berry:

I know, way too much. Do you remember-

Mason:

…it's great.

Lola Berry:

Is it Bruce McAvaney? He was an Australian sports guy. He called from AFL football through to-

Mason:

Swimming.

Lola Berry:

Swimming, race, everything. Olympics, dah, dah, dah. And he had a theory and it's always been my podcast host rule. And he's like, "Do so much research that you can throw it out as soon as the guest gets in, that you can go down any adventure they want to go with it."

Mason:

Oh, cool.

Lola Berry:

How cool is that?

Mason:

Yeah, I like it.

Lola Berry:

It's kind of the same with acting. Do the work and then let it go the second... Or just trust it and then move forward in the room or stage.

Mason:

Yeah. Once I do get into talking to guests who are outside health or outside the arts, that's when I'm like, "I better do a little preparation.

Lola Berry:

Yeah. The health stuff's not hard at all, is it? That's like second nature for us. And then you're so good with arts. Because you interviewed me very artsy just then.

Mason:

Beautiful. I'm going to do it. I'm going to go back to my career advice.

 

I was thinking the rapid fire. One, you'd mentioned dreams, but I thought about this independently. What are one of the more, if it's not too much to ask, one of the more significant dreams that you've had recently?

Lola Berry:

Oh, my goodness. I've been writing them down. I've kept a dream journal too. One that just came straight to my head, it was very abstract and weird, but I was in... This is going to sound really weird, but I was in an industrial space and I had to get in an elevator and go down to the bottom level to go swim in a swimming pool. I was meeting my dad, we were going for a swim.

 

And I got trapped in the elevator. Lots of dreams have me trapped in the elevator. It had no doors, so I got stuck in it and was going up and down, but there was nothing to... It felt like I could fall out really easily. There was a lot of fear. I felt scared. And I finally made it to this pool level where I was meeting my dad off a crane, what looked like those... I don't know how to describe them because I know nothing about bombs, but when Pearl Harbour got bombed, those water bombs that went under the water. They kind of looked like a little baby rocket ship, almost, was being craned down.

 

And then I woke up and I was like... I said to Matt, "Oh, my god! I set the most vivid dream. There was a bomb. I was meant to meet my dad. I couldn't meet my dad. I was meant to go to this pool." It was just one of those surreal, weird dreams.

 

And then I've gone through meeting, and this is all since taking SHEN, can I say, exes that were kind of yucky energy. And the energy was the exact same as when I left. So I don't know if that was a beautiful, "Tick! Well done, Lola!"

 

And then there was one that I went to... Because I really needed advice. I remember I just needed to see this person and it was an ex. I was like, "I need to see them for advice." Get to their place in New York, they married a billionaire, and there was a moat around the house and we were all travelling around in boats. And as soon as I woke up, he goes, "All right, I'm going to tell you really honestly what you need to hear." Wake up. I was like-

Mason:

Far out. Good one.

Lola Berry:

"What's going on?" And it's all male relationship, really weird.

Mason:

Amazing.

Lola Berry:

Thanks SHEN.

Mason:

Thank you. Thanks subconcious. Thanks subconscious for doing the work.

Lola Berry:

Right?

Mason:

And second question, I'll leave it here. If you go forward to yourself as an 80 and 90-year-old, which quality feels the most important for you to cultivate now to have embodied when you're that age?

Lola Berry:

I'd like to say vitality. You want to feel like you can move. I've always been aware of health and wellness, but last year, and I'll do this really quick, but last year I did a round of IVF for future planning. We're not ready to have kids yet. I made nearly every choice out of that out of fear, if I'm being really, really honest with you.

 

Basically, it supercharged PCOS for me, and I put on loads of weight. And it was a really hard time for me because of all my eating disorder history. I have recently been in LA and I just really focused on moving my body, eating the way that made me feel good. I just slowly, over the course of seven months, just dropped weight and started to feel really good again. I was just walking on the beach with my boyfriend this morning and I said, "I forget how good your body feels when you feel healthy and vital. Even the way that I walk and the way that I carry myself completely changes when I feel vital." I think if I can carry that energy, just vitality. Also, if you're a great granny by then, you want to be able to run after the grandkids and the great grandkids, don't you?

Mason:

Yeah, I think it's very valid, that vitality. It's not super valued in terms of that's not normalised in a granny. You see a granny running around, you're like, "Whoa, she won the genetic lottery" or "She must've done something special."

Lola Berry:

But do you know what? I'll say in America though, I saw a playwright who's 74, I think. And he's a prolific, really successful playwright. I went to see him. He was basically putting up scenes that he just keeps... He's always working on plays. He's won Oscars, all that kind of stuff. And he even said, this went straight through my heart, he goes, "You're either writing or you're not." At 72, 74, something like that. His name's John Patrick Shanley. Huge, huge American playwright. 72. That guy's going to write to a hundred, there's no stopping him.

 

Even my therapist, mid-seventies, Jujitsu, I think Tai Chi, just does all this movement. I'll be like, "Oh, can I book a session for two weeks out?" "No, I'm going on a fishing trip. I'm going to do a big..." Really big into solo adventures and stuff. And I'm like, "Can I please be you when I grow up?" That just valuing yourself and doing the stuff that makes you feel good.

 

But I think we can celebrate getting older. And I know you're really passionate about what we do now so that we get to become rad oldies. I think there are some people that are already doing that, which is cool.

Mason:

Heck yeah. And you are doing it as well. Thank you.

Lola Berry:

Thanks, friend.

Mason:

If everyone needs to go over to the website, follow on Instagram?

Lola Berry:

Nah. Honestly, just keep listening to these pods.

Mason:

Heck yeah.

Lola Berry:

You're a legend.

Mason:

Yeah, go and listen to Lola's Fearlessly Failing podcast on all reputable-

Lola Berry:

And this one.

Mason:

... platforms.

Lola Berry:

But I will time it so that when this one comes out, I'll bring mine out as well so we can...

Mason:

Heck yeah.

Lola Berry:

Yeah. I loved having you on the pod. Matt and I are such fans of everything you've created. We're taking all your goodies. We love it.

Mason:

Heck yeah. And likewise, the kind of guests that you've got on. Olympic snowboarders, comedians and actors, health influencers, It's a really-

Lola Berry:

Smorgasbord.

Mason:

It's a good smorgasbord.

Lola Berry:

Yeah. No, I love it. My role is just people doing their own thing. I love it.

Mason:

All right. Get onto it everybody. Thanks so much for coming.

Lola Berry:

Thanks, friend. Have fun.

Mason:

Yeah, great.