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Dylan Smith of Vital Veda joins Mason on the show today for an expansive conversation around the Vedic sciences, and how to use the natural lores on which these were founded to formulate your life from a place of flow rather than friction.

Dylan is certified Ayurvedic Practitioner and holistic health educator who uses the vast depth and breadth of his knowledge to help, to heal and to teach. Drawn to the craft through his own initiating experiences of Panchakarma, Dylan's path is one of well trodden embodiment. 

Dylan unfurls his knowledge and wisdom in a gentle and considered way, sharing how the practical application of this ancient philosophy can assist in the very tangible material decisions one is required to make in their every day life, such as where to live, where to work, how to eat, when to evolve a relationship and more.

In Ayurveda it is said that the number one quality for successful healing is to surrender to the hands of the healer; the physician. Dylan shares the concept of hasta vasti; the power of the hand that heals, explaining that it is not so much the herb or the method that elicits the medicine but the that hand it comes from.

In a contemporary climate where regulators and governing bodies have the dominion to inhibit and repossess the credentials of a practitioner based solely on their capacity to concede to the law and order of obligation, what is left for the sovereign individual in which these choices don't align?

The hands the heal.

What Dylan is speaking to through the lens of hasta vasti is the inherent power of the healers touch, the aura, the energy, life force, Prana, Qi or seeming magic that works through the body of the practitioner as a conduit of harmony.

When the apparatus is taken away and the herbs held hostage to capitalistic greed, what's left over is the craft, the heightened sensory system, trained meticulously to perceive, to feel, to hear and to know.

There is so much potency in this, this is nature based wisdom, universal to all beings. The hands of the healer could be the hands of the practitioner you hold dearly in esteem, these hands could also belong to you, perhaps the most powerful healer of all; the self. 

I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, may it bring inspiration and insight.
 

"In Ayurveda, the aim of Ayurveda is number one, maintain health of the healthy. And number two, treat the sick. Number one is the priority, maintaining health. Prevention is priority. And if our culture and if the collective can really understand the importance of prevention, that will create so much harmony, so much success, so much collective happiness and health. So we really need to value that and pass that on to the next generations.”

- Dylan Smith

Dylan & Mason discuss:

• How to use the Veda's to manufacture your life in alignment with the universal flow.
• Vedic Astrology.
• Yin and Yang through the Vedic lens, and how this philosophy can be applied to the practicalities of being and doing.
• The inception of Ayurveda and Chinese medicine into Western allopathic medicine.
• The future of holistic health practice beyond regulation.
• Dhanvantari and initiation of the Ayurvedic healer.
• The guru/disciple relationship.
• Karma and trust as key elements in healing.
• Jyotish herbology.

Who is Dylan Smith ?

Dylan Smith is a certified Ayurvedic Practitioner and holistic health educator based in Sydney, Australia, where he runs and operates the Vital Veda clinic for patients and for anyone who desires to enhance their wellness.

Aimed at uncovering the root cause of ailments, Dylan shares wisdom through his podcast, teaching programs and travels the world to share his holistic passion, to teach patients to effortlessly integrate foundational techniques into their daily life so they can thrive.
He enjoys travelling the globe offering consultations and education programs to various cultures and backgrounds with inspirational relevancy. Applying principles of Natural Law to dynamic cultures and communities.

Regularly travelling to India to train with an internationally renowned family of Ayurvedic doctors, Dylan is devoted to learning, sharing and radiating this ancient knowledge for everyone to utilise and enjoy, to experience total wellness and bliss.

Resource guide

Guest Links
Vital Veda Website
Vital Veda Instagram
Vital Veda Facebook
Vital Veda Podcast

Mentioned In This Episode
One Eleven Website

Related Podcasts
The Ayurvedic Way with Wayne Celeban - Ayurvedic Practitioner (EP#51)
Ayurveda and Yoga - The Healing Arts with Myra Lewin from Hale Pule (EP#55)
Ayurvedic Healing with Susan Van Daal (EP#41)

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Check Out The Transcript Below:

Mason:

Dyl, welcome, welcome. I'd say welcome back, but no one knows that you had been on previously. We had a badass interview, and it's one of the only ones ever that I've just lost it, just up in smoke.

Dylan Smith:

It's good that you only lost one. I lost a couple.

Mason:

Oh, you have?

Dylan Smith:

It's not a good feeling. Yeah.

Mason:

I think maybe there was one other, I think it's Tahnee. My wife has had a couple of biggies maybe, and I just like vicariously living through her. That's how I get my multiple losses, but you are the one that always hung there and I was just like, "No, you're somewhere. You're somewhere. You can't just..." Anyway, maybe it was just meant for when you're living here now. You're up here, you were just moved in. And you're just telling me a little bit about it and we were just like, "No, shut up. Let's talk about it on the podcast." Because I'm super stoked to hear about that process of you getting up here, getting that house and doing it , all being in your flow. Where are you? You don't have to give away your street. Where did you land? Are you near me?

Dylan Smith:

Ocean Shore, South Golden Lake border.

Mason:

Heck yeah. So you're on the South Golden side?

Dylan Smith:

I'm near the beach there, so I'm on that beach side of the river and on a creek as well, which is one of the things we wanted was to be near water because I've grown up on the beach my whole life. One of my prerequisites when living in Sydney was in winter time, I should be able to go to the beach for my morning [inaudible 00:01:26] or my morning bathing in my Speedos in the winter. So I can't let it be too long because then I'll get cold, especially on the way back. Because I do my abhyanga, my oil massage every morning and then I like to bathe it in a body of water. So it was always to have a body of water distance. So yeah, we're on a creek. Jump in every morning. It's great.

Mason:

Heck yeah. And you're now in God's country. South Golden Beach. I didn't realise you're that close. We're going to take that over. I'm going to own that little cafe there one day.

Dylan Smith:

I went there yesterday for the first time, well two days ago and yeah.

Mason:

Yeah. Let's say no. Just to try, I did some research. The newy store though is the best ever.

Dylan Smith:

I live just near there.

Mason:

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's where I used to go on holidays. We used to live near there. And so it's always funny going back to that shop and be like, this is exactly the same as when I was six years old. But you were talking about the astrology and the Vedic architecture. I was super interested to hear about that.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, it's all new grounds for me because obviously I'm more versed and my knowledge is more versed in Ayurveda, but it's all part of the Veda and the Veda are the lores of nature. And in the Veda there's Ayurveda, there's sthapatya Veda or Vastu, which is Vedic architecture. Architecture according to natural lore, there's Vedic astrology or Jyotish, there's Gandharva Veda, which is the sounds of nature. So how do you use certain sounds to trigger certain lores of nature? A very common one is rain melody, there's certain melodies you play in droughts to make the rain. So these are all parts of the Veda and obviously, it's been on my mind to eventually have a house for quite some time. And especially with COVID living in Sydney, it was a lot of people. It was, "We need to get out of here." And I knew for a long time that I would be moving in, I would be buying my house in the time period of August 2022 to August 2023.

Mason:

And why is that?

Dylan Smith:

I'm in my Mars cycle, which lasts for a year and I'm not great with Jyotish . I don't know why, I can't tell you exactly how Mars is related to house, but it is home and I'm still looking. We've been looking for two, three years. Especially since COVID, we've been looking hard, but I'm like, "It'll come this year." And then my wife had a jyotish session with another Jyoti, she called Laura Plum who she asked more specifically when's it coming? Because second half of the year she had, it'll either be during 10-day period in October or this 10-day period in January. And 10-day period in October, finally we found a house. I put an offer, I got accepted and then my guru, after everything like this, I put through my teacher, my mentor in India and he said no, because there was a bedroom in the northeast corner and the northeast is where it's a place for... Should be empty, it's like the meditation and that sunrise, that north, it's that auspicious period.

 

You can go into the Vedic architecture if it's essentially... To understand Vedic architecture, it's like if we all come from a field of pure consciousness, they call it the Bindu is the point. It's like what people wear on their third eye, that dot. So if we all come from this point of pure consciousness and then manifest into whatever it is, flesh skin, a tea which we're drinking or a structure, a house with walls and the directions North, South, East, West, that's all having certain expressions of energy because it all came from the field of unmanifest. But now it's manifesting and it's manifesting to certain energies. There's a certain energy in the North, there's a certain energy in the South, East, West.

 

And same with the structure of a home. Those energies are there. Ones that Earth element, Space, Fire, Water, Air. So this is the best place for a fire. This is the best place for a water fountain. So these things, and there's some strict no's, which my teacher said, and it's very hard because with Vastu, ideally you're building it from scratch and that's what people do who are really into this. But for us it was like, "Okay, if anything, if any kitchen, bathroom or bedroom is in the Northeast, it's a no." So a lot of houses, we were just like, "No, no, no." And we found this place and it was, yeah. Anyway, so we put an offer and got accepted and then last minute, we had to cancel. And we did luckily. And then again the second 10-day period, which was a few months later, happened to buy a house then.

Mason:

Heck yeah. Well, there are so many questions. That system, I've been thinking about it lately in terms of just looking at phases of life and where you are at. I know astrology has it a lot. The Tao has it a lot in terms of what year you were born. I'm year of the Tiger. I go on those seven year cycles and so on and so forth. I don't feel like that phase of life piece has quite pierced the West yet there's been a lot of those, lot of Eastern lore and wisdom, which is like we're really rocking into. But it's, and the integration's going to happen. But that to help build clarity of first of all what kind of constitution you are and how it's going to manifest as a general map and then exactly what each phase of your life is going to bring forth based on the constitution and so on and so on and so forth. I don't feel like that's really there yet.

Dylan Smith:

It's very practical. It's like when's a good time to invest? Well I'm thinking of leaving my job, when should I do that? When will nature support me in that way? And so it's in a flow rather than any friction. When's a good time to propose to my wife or my future wife if this, yes. But it's stuff like that. It's very practical jyotish and it's very precise Vedic astrology compared to from what I've witnessed other astrology. And the aspect of that is certain things got lost with the degrees and maybe to an interview on Vedic astrology and there's someone.

Mason:

Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea. But also, I like at the moment. I like that even just the practicality of how you are utilising it. Because that's a lot to even just be making big decisions. Well, there's that equivalent of feng shui you were saying.

Dylan Smith:

Yes.

Mason:

That had a huge impact. And then the other one was just you being aware of what was flowing in terms of what was a good time and then just went with it.

Dylan Smith:

And not being governed by it as well, because I spent a lot of time in India at Panchakarma Clinic where I'm seeing these people who have been long-term meditators and really into this knowledge and some of them are blaming their diseases. "Oh, I woke up with this virus because the sun is in this house" and all this and not being, "Okay, now's the only time I'm going to buy a house." We were looking for two, three years and we didn't really know these precise dates until later. And even my a friend who's a Joti, she was really like, "Wow, I cannot." It was so aligned when we looked at retrospect in terms of Mars in Taurus and all this stuff. So it's fun to analyse and not be attached to it.

Mason:

I think that's where the friction comes in as well because it is just like, "Oh, I just can't handle the concept of..." Even though Western religions are one of, not just Western religions, but completely governed by [inaudible 00:08:25].

Dylan Smith:

Yes. Yes.

Mason:

Where this is ironically seems like there's a lot of control, but you also have the capacity to be in control of being able to look into the future rather than just being like, "Oh, God works in mysterious ways." You're like, "Oh no, this is how universal God whatever wants to call it. This is how this works and I'm going to get into rhythm with it." That's almost more confronting because there's engagement. But then what comes up is people going, "I don't want to be controlled like that." But the opposite is like you are not sitting in the driver's seat at all. Maybe that's just where we haven't got that lingo.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. There's a saying, it says, "Yogis follow the stars." So a yogi is someone who recognises that they are one with the universe. And you'll see some people get depressed. It's like, "Oh we are all one. I'm not even alive anyway. What's the point? I may as well die." But then there's the Rishi, which is the great seer, but the Rishis govern the stars. The Rishis change the stars, sorry. So if you are really tapped in, you can transcend the stars, you can transcend the Jyotish, the astrology, and you can be the leader of the chariot, the driver.

Mason:

And that's always, you go deep enough, it's like you got to surrender. It's always the same part. You got to surrender and you got to have discipline with what's real. And you do that long enough and you cultivate enough. And then always what comes out is absolutely complete sovereignty and that uniqueness and that specialness that we're trying to get in touch with. But then you go, "`But I just come from this one blob of consciousness, and that's not special."

Dylan Smith:

That's the point of it all, you know.

Mason:

What else was I thinking? You get the whole, "What's the point?" I think they are very practical.

Dylan Smith:

And people go through that on their journey for sure. In the Vedic system we have a saying, the cosmic consciousness blues. And it's like cosmic consciousness is that recognition that we are all one consciousness. But then when you get to the point of actually you are that celestial quality, that higher consciousness, and that's what Vedas is about, that's what astrology and the architecture and the medical is about, aligning with that nature's intelligence. And then you ride with it, you flow with it. It's not, "You are governing me, the stars." It's, "I'm riding with your rhythms so that everything is in flow and that I can move in easily and I get a good price on the house and everything works well."

Mason:

And that's when you go back. We talk a lot about going back to those real roots of Taoism and before all the points.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, yeah.

Mason:

And....

Dylan Smith:

That's nice. It's like when you were on my podcast and we were speaking about the difference between TCM and what was the other?

Mason:

The classical.

Dylan Smith:

The classical, yeah.

Mason:

Classical Chinese medicine, that. Well, there's so many different renditions, we were like, "What are you talking about? Taoism is so many different sects." And it's like, yeah, but the only sect that's integrated is the one that you can track back to as far back as you can possibly go. So that's where that broken lineage is so important.

 

But realising we're branches off the same core and the same core has a very, very unique intention. And that is one that it comes back and everyone's looking for that. I think the phase of awakening where there's a lot of people looking for that. Like, "Oh, okay, there's a part of me that isn't really governed and controlled and maybe I was never really created and I don't have a being who created me." And so, as you said, it's an experience where you start, where there is that sovereignty and that awareness that there's a weakness about you.

Dylan Smith:

Absolutely.

Mason:

At the same time, a complete unified consciousness as well that you just get to ride that wave.

Dylan Smith:

Yes. Yeah.

Mason:

It's hard work.

Dylan Smith:

If you are aligned. It shouldn't be hard.

Mason:

Yeah. Well there we go. That's like...

Dylan Smith:

But yeah, it can be for people and that's where I was saying, this depression can come in with people when that is finding it hard and they're not able to have that sovereignty of, "I am a unique expression of pure consciousness and my..." So, yeah.

Mason:

I hope you're happy to go in this direction. So much of what you do is clinic in seeing people. I'm interested in terms of, there's so much of complexity of what people can do in their lives and reasons why they might muddled and why there's so much mental health. In terms of taking people back to what's their truth, what's real for them, what's really... I've been using the, term slam dunk here at the moment. What are we specialists in? What is the thing that we're... Yes, there's a 20% you got to do practical shit and stuff you don't like and cultivate skills.

 

But then there's an 80% of not just your soul purpose that gets to detach from real life, but is that there's that part of you if you can sit in that soul essence and that real unique purposefulness, what's that process? I'm assuming that's a huge part of what you do, but I'm exploring it a lot because it's been very like, "Let's just make a purpose statement and that's what we're about." It's like, "Oh my god. No. It's just so beyond that." How do you work with people? What's the terminology around everyone getting back to that sweet spot of what..?

Dylan Smith:

I think it depends on the person, especially in clinic, like you mentioned. It's assessing the person, seeing where they're at and what they're ready to receive. I thought you were going to ask me, "How much do you integrate this astrology and architecture into your patients?" Hardly ever. So it's about, what are they open to? Some people are into that more subtle, cosmic, airy fairy stuff, which is great and you can use that to get them aligned with what they want to do. But I think in general, you have to have both at the same time. We need to connect to the source while action. If you had to sum up the Vedas in one sloka, one verse, it's Yogasthah kuru karmani which means established in being, perform action. So you have to first establish yourself in being before performing action. One action's going to be be a business, your relationship, but first have that established being.

 

So a lot of people, even in spiritual things, whether it's Kundalini yoga, I see some people with this Kundalini yoga and these dance, ecstatic dance and even with plant medicines, they're going into this very feminine, this very dynamic expressive aspects of themselves. And through these different technologies and techniques, without having that established in being that masculine, that transcendence, that pure absolute consciousness. So having that regularly, the best for me is meditation. Meditate twice a day and have a technique where you directly experience it. So know a meditation technique that you are focusing on something, you are getting guided by some sound or you are doing a breath work. These are great, but that's more that expressive feminine dynamic quality. You need to have the silence as the foundation. And then from there you can have the dynamism, whether it's breath work, whether it's tantric love making, whatever you want to do, but having both.

 

And then of course the herbs, they also come into that aspect of having that dynamic expression as well as supporting the transcendence and then seeing what that person needs. Do they need more grounding? Do they need more, as we said, they have that cosmic consciousness blues, they need to actually take action in their life or they're feeling depressed, they don't want to get out of bed in the morning. Well just go to the sunrise, whatever it takes, pull your friend who's depressed, maybe suicidal to the sunrise and while they're there maybe get them to do a backbend like we do the sun salutations. It's impossible to have any negating thoughts at that time. And that's that activity, that action, that stimulation to that Kapha, that earth element that's very sluggish and what we call it Tamas, that state of inertia, we need to wake it up. So can I answer your question a little bit?

Mason:

Yeah. What was coming up in terms of, when I think about the Veda so much is what I think about same. The Veda, comes Taoism, then comes modern psychology. From there you track back and so I always think about... Ayurveda, I should say. And Vedic philosophy, being that real root of thoroughly exploring psychology from a place not just isolated to the brain. But heavily been able to map the thoughts and emotions. It's just so intricate, goes way beyond what Taoism brought forth. Makes me think about how in modern psychology we work on what the issues are. You're showing up this way in life, that's a problem. So you need to have discipline and take on these archetypes in this way have being.

Dylan Smith:

Yes.

Mason:

And it's good that we are getting that emergence of real, going back to a real nice root of Western psychology and that's getting out there because it's really great in clinical scenarios, but then so often it has to be so broad because we're on the internet and it needs to get massly, on mass, that there's a lot of people taking on archetypes and acting in certain ways that eventually they can see it goes against the constitution. And we then get into that modern psychological approach of just like, "Oh, it's so bad how I am this way in this scenario. I'm going to really work hard to not be that way." When I think about the way Ayurveda approaches it, again, it's just like if you get into the flow and you realise, don't put yourself, if you can develop capacity, there's a practical capacity so that you don't react when you get put in against the flow of lives and you're not reacting and projecting onto people around you.

 

But then be aware of that's not your flow or sweet spot, therefore when it comes to astrology, the architecture, all that, don't build your life in a way whether you're not going to be like that. You're not going to be in a different habitat. You need to stay in your habitat. That's just what I was thinking in terms of how that's framed and how you help people get to that awareness and not just focus on, "You can't act that way, don't be here."

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, just remind them of it. They have that aspect within themselves, that awareness. And again, it's back to established in being and if there are with seeing the person recognising the tendency that is out of balance and then instead of removing that or "You're doing too much of this or you're doing too much plant medicine or you're drinking wine. You think it's not bad, you're just having with your dinner," whatever it is. And then rather than removing that, in giving them tools, techniques, practises, diet recommendations, herbs that will enliven their memory of their true self and activate that, remind them. That's what ayurveda is essentially about. It's not about removing the parasite, it's about restoring the intestinal intelligence to regulate its own microbiome. Or not about, "Oh, I'm going to give you an SSRI, we're going to give you serotonin because you're depressed."

 

It's about activating the glandular system, the hormonal system to regulate its own serotonin. And one person might need a different dose of serotonin, one person might need a different hormone. So again, not having that very masculine of, "Okay, I'm going to put in this hormone, I'm going to block this one with a copper coil in your uterus," whatever it is, it's in triggerings the body's intelligence and that's various techniques and you can go as the simple and foundational as meditation, but then of course you want to work more on a certain system with the intelligence of one system. We give some things for that system.

Mason:

Just hearing you there, bring up Western approach, Ayurvedic approach, a use I do come back and think about, maybe we even discussed it when I was doing ages ago, Michael Tierra's planetary herbology course. And he was doing a lot of that. He was focused on Ayurvedic, Chinese medicine and then Western medicine in terms of the herbal approach in symptomatic approach and seeing how to not layer them completely over each other but seeing where the crossovers are in languaging and see how okay, Yin/Yang's describing this angle, the West is seeing it from this angle and so on so forth. There was really interesting, gargantuan attempt but I was always thought, yeah, it makes sense these three philosophies from when it comes to herbalism. But then in terms of complete systems, I can't see it going beyond general Western approach. You can track back to very. I think when we were talking about Jimmy Wollumbin, he was saying if you go back to the original healers where Western medicine came from there, you can take back our Yin and Yang being love and strife.

 

And so it's like, all right, so we can all track back. But they are the three as far as I can tell, and maybe this is in the West. They're the three that with some integration, they're decentralised enough in the sense that, that information's out there and a lot of people are taking Western medicine and running within another. Because of where I sit in the world, that I can see so many Western practitioners crossing over into Chinese medicine and it's just that, that integration between doctors and Chinese practitioners emerging quite heavily. I'm wondering, because you live so deeply in the Ayurvedic world where you see that crossover heavily.

Dylan Smith:

I'm not trying to be arrogant or anything, but what came up to be honest in my heart was it's cute. It's cute to see and it's great to see Western doctors learning about these things, but I see that they're learning and they're integrating these things after being exposed to just a fraction of it or just a superficial expression of it. Which is fine, that's how people enter these realms and then they enter it and then they get deep into it and they really use it and eventually they'll fully close off their Western techniques maybe and really go deep into it. So it's great. And I think it's a projection of the collective, what the collective is demanding, what the collective is doing. These doctors you can say are like representations of the patients.

 

So if you're living in Byron Bay and you're a Western allopathic doctor, definitely you're going to have more exposure to, you're going to be more aware about alternative therapies, about Chinese medicine, about Ayurveda, about the herbs you may have heard or researched about, but if you are in Parramatta Sydney or Sydney City or one of the cities, you're not going to have as much openness. So I see the doctors, just like a political leader is a summary or an expression of the collective. Similarly, I see the doctors as that expression of the local patients that they're... And if they are online and they're doing that masses, then same thing.

Mason:

Where do you think Ayurveda especially is going to steamroll parts of the Western medical approach?

Dylan Smith:

Oh, it's really interesting. Even I recently brought my teachers from India and we did a tour of Australia and New Zealand last month and they've spent a lot of time in Europe. They worked a lot in Italy and they were telling me about that in India. Because in India the Ayurvedic herbal industry is like the supplement vitamin industry here in Australia and in the West. You have big multi-billion dollar brands selling Ayurvedic herbs on mass scale. And there's a lot of issues with that. And what I've heard is that these pharmaceutical companies are literally buying these Ayurvedic brands. So what he was saying, my teacher, was with the brand One Eleven Health, which is an intention to spread Ayurveda with the masses in a conformed way to the regulations. That's really important to start now because eventually these big companies are going to be taking over as the collective consciousness wants more of this.

 

This is when the pharmaceutical companies will come in. So it'll be interesting for that. But also at the same time what we both were talking about earlier and experience is, it's just going to be more covert operations of healing. Because as the mainstream becomes more dominant and the regulations are thicker, perhaps maybe that will be the case. And it may be harder to get Ayurvedic healing because it's going to be like, "Oh you want medicine? Well you have to scan this barcode and we will give you the medicine for that. You can't go to that alternative practitioner, he's not registered with us." So I see that polarisation of mainstream control and that's-

Mason:

That's a fine line because when we are there and it's getting to the point where it could go. I'm starting to get to the point where I'm like, even though I know how much suss stuff is going on in the background, how many grabs of control, at this point you just live in a bubble.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, that's true. I don't know.

Mason:

But I'm with you as well. But I've been so surprised by how allowed we've been to access to particular types of medicine.

Dylan Smith:

And a big thing was COVID, of course. So that was when it was the most expressed what I was just talking about and then what the solution was. Even I was saying to my teachers, I need to start doing more marma therapy, which is the subtle touch therapy where acupuncture points come from. Because I can't get access to herbs. And I think that's where the power will be in the people is doing the Dinacharya, which is the daily routine, the practises that you don't require products, that are free. That's really going to take, and these are all preventative and definitely can also help heal. But the trick is with these more deeper conditions, especially after COVID, so many deeper conditions with the tumours and the female hormones, it requires stronger treatments and herbs and how much we can do through touch treatments, through doing it yourself with these free aspects, aligning with natural rhythms, then we will see. But they will always need that more concentrated niche treatment, which is very hard to practise in Western countries. Not impossible if you do it covertly. Yeah.

Mason:

Above the line.

Dylan Smith:

Yes. Yeah, definitely.

Mason:

Because someone comes and it's the same that classical Chinese practitioners, I know it's the exact same thing where I'm going, "Hang on. If someone has a tumour or has something that you are not allowed to practise that you need to practise that in the Western manner." It's like, why we are a complete system and such more an advanced system, but because there's no way to validate that teacher, student, that handing over of the edge and understanding that person's got the perception and the embodied capacity to actually go ahead and use that traditional system in its wholeness to treat? That can't be taught in a university. It's hard to test. It's an energetic sense. So naturally it's difficult.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, well the hope there is and the possibility is, for example in Ayurveda there's a branch of government called Ayush, which stands for... I can't remember, but it represents Ayurveda, it represents Sidda medicine, which is similar to Ayurveda, but in Tomlin it represents homoeopathy, which is really big in Ayurveda and Unani is the other one. And that is a government branch which is really strong in India. The current prime minister of India really promotes Ayurveda and he gives good... So they're working to also expand in Sydney, they're trying to bring an Ayurveda programme into the universities. So those things can help.

 

But again that deeper niche things, which involves metallic preparations, it involves these very strong herbs and things like that. It's go India to get treatment essentially, but not everyone can because they're so sick, they can't fly. See it's also, and then it calms down to people's karma and especially recently with the pandemic, all the reactions and still the lingering imbalances which have come and now tumours. So many tumours we're seeing and it's karma. And also, it's a lesson in how you deal with it and how you move through it, what you have access to what you have opened to.

 

I just saw a patient the other day, 26 years old brain tumour out of nowhere, vegan, no smoking, no drinking. He's surprised. And there was a certain reaction, probably a reaction to a medication which he got. And he does not know anything other than chemotherapy and surgery, and radiation. And surgery is great. We use Ayurveda, we use it a lot. Everyone knows the father of surgery, Shushuta, which is the Ayurvedic physician. But I was telling him, actually there are other ways of treatment by the way. But to someone's karma is the extent that they know this.

Mason:

I think you're right. If the divide can integrate quickly, maybe it's not going to, whatever. Who knows what the more macro karma is there. I think you're right in terms of what is available to us, is understanding from the Chinese medicine terminology, how to do organ massage. How to work with the meridians and track those points. And that is probably what we are. I think that's the silver lining with the same goal at the moment is just so many people are getting onto these herbs preventatively.

Dylan Smith: (30:17):

Yes. So good.

Mason:

Doing their Qi Gong, their sun salutations and I guess we need to give it that, the weight that it has.

Dylan Smith:

In Ayurveda, the aim of Ayurveda is number one, maintain health of the healthy. And number two, treat the sick. Number one is the priority, maintaining health. Prevention is priority. And if our culture and if the collective can really understand the importance of prevention, that will create so much harmony, so much success, so much collective happiness and health. So we really need to value that and pass that on to the next generations.

Mason:

Speaking of that, you say the, is it Pachakarma?

Dylan Smith:

Yes.

Mason:

Is that the practise? Do you go and practise when you're there in India or you go and do teaching?

Dylan Smith:

In India, I receive treatment and I learn mostly, and I do traditional initiations. It's like rather than intellectual learning, which is there as well, it's initiating through certain rituals and mantras and procedures, which is generally 41 days of a practise. And it's being initiated into the consciousness of a healer, which in Ayurveda, we call Dhanvantari. So you can have all the knowledge, you can have all the intellectual knowledge, but how powerful is your touch when you feel someone's pulse? How much can you heal? How much information can you receive when you give someone an abhyanga massage or a certain body treatment? You can have the same oil, the same... But what is the difference in the person? We call it the Hasta Vasti, the power of the hand. So this is what I'm trying to promote with my students who start to learn with me in Australia. And oh, I get asked so much, "I want to go to India, I want to learn Ayurveda. I want to spend time in the clinic, traditional thing."

 

But I'm like, "Yeah, you can come here but it's not intellectual knowledge. We're going to not test you and it's really about getting your consciousness to a state where you can receive certain techniques and initiations, which then you can become a healer." So we call it Dhanvantari is the Sanskrit name, and it just means the healing aspect of consciousness. Enlivening your Dhanvantari, you can enliven, you may have heard of Ganesh, the elephant headed God. So that's really just an expression of consciousness. It's the expression of stability, of joyfulness, of groundedness. And Dhanvantari is that healer. So that's a big thing, main reason I go to India to do.

Mason:

And I'm sure it's different, it's unique for every single person. But when people do, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go and do these initiations." Are they real common themes that pop up within the psyche of resistance? Obviously it's not just meant to be like easy to dance through, those things.

Dylan Smith:

The biggest thing is the expectation of the teacher's time and the teacher's energy and attention because they really assess, are you worthy? Do you have that worthy inquiry? Are you ready to receive the knowledge? An example, we just brought my teachers out from India and one of the main focus was we did a five-day intensive course on, it's called Bhuta Shuddhi. Bhuta means seed and Shuddhi means purification. So it's to purify the reproductive seeds of people. Because the biggest thing I see in my clinic now and would've been probably different to when we last met is fertility problems. And my teachers are specialists in fertility. So we did this for practitioners to teach them how to help fertility. So we had practitioners fly in from around Australia and New Zealand. We had one come from Europe expecting to receive all this knowledge and help their patients, which we did.

 

But it took time. The first day it was just dipping the toes in, "Are you actually ready? Are you going to embody this first?" And then we gave a home programme. It's like, "Do not practise this on people. This is only for yourself. You need to embody this knowledge first before you give it, before you share it." So that's the thing which comes up, is people expecting to learn. When I first went to my teachers, there was another lady from Germany, we used to spend six months a year there. She ended up leaving because we were getting 5 to 10 minutes max a day with the teacher. Because he was really seeing, you had to do certain things before. But that 5 to 10 minutes by the way was supreme. It was better than reading shastras, the ancient text for days.

Mason:

I've been looking at how measuring of value, especially in enterprises. And there's like nothing go through where there's made in six chambers and obviously finances is one of them. And then there's the warm things, like the feelings, emotions, then you go through to the longevity and then you start go to physical things and then you get to relics. And what I was thinking of when you go to all these courses, things that having these relics and these collectibles, these things that have sentimental or the value that you attribute to something in order to... I can see that being excessively measured, because then the sixth is knowledge and wisdom. And it's interesting if you really sit down, if you're going into a course and you really go, "All right, so where am I? Why do I financially give this? What am I going to be getting back?" And you can see we're all like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Knowledge. Yeah, I'm going to get the..." But knowledge and wisdom, very, very different things. But it's the relic or "I've done this course and now I have this technique."

Dylan Smith:

Oh, yeah.

Mason:

You really feel those. And sometimes rightfully so, because that's what the course is offering. Other times not as, like people who are going to just say collect, "Great, now I've got this and now I can integrate that into my clinic. And I have it knowing." Really interesting how, and I'm sure I'm interested. When people do come along, how do you even start to try and communicate that? So people have?

Dylan Smith:

Just put them in there and let them experience it.

Mason:

Because there's no, in terms of... So they go-

Dylan Smith:

My teachers, they start learning when they're three years old, then the next stage is seven years old. So when I started going there, I'd go there six months at a time. The way that they were, it's bit by bit, it's growing in it, it's really making you embody that knowledge. And I was like, "Guys, I can't live here for six years. I live in Australia. I got responsibilities and I also want to treat there. I can't just spend." And for them also it was that learning of, "Okay, you're not like us, you're not growing up with this, you don't have the time."

 

So finding that middle ground and then they learned a lot and especially through me, who I was the one who really started this, then other students could come and they could receive it faster if they were ready and those things. So it's finding that balance and it's a continual fine. We don't know the answers of how to share. And it comes down ultimately to the receptivity of the person and whether they're ready for it, whether they're the smartest, but they might be too intellectual about it. So I think it's just about giving them as much about how it will go as much as we can. And to have that surrender.

Mason:

That comes back to looking, we were talking about finding your sweet spot clinically before. Because it gets to a point where there's objective reality around the lineage and the divot of energy that you jump into and you want to follow, and whether you have the capacity to integrate it and get on that path, whether that is your path. I've had the privilege to go and buddy up to certain people whether it's for the podcast and hear about these particular paths. And in the beginning I was very much like, "Oh gosh, I got to go and do that. I've got to get into this." And I'm realising that's not me at this time of my life.

Dylan Smith:

Exactly.

Mason:

It's very liberating for me.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, yeah.

Mason:

But it's always fascinating because how much the lights are off in life in terms of watching people like venture in, thinking, "I intellectually have got this and I'm getting to that point." But it's just this this invisible wall membrane that you're really not going to be able to cross. And it's not because we're the guardians, it's just a reality. We're trying to-

Dylan Smith:

Absolutely. I still learn it. The certain techniques or whatever that I've been wanting to receive for years, so many years. And it's clear that you just surrender. That's the beauty of having what we call a guru or mentor is, guru is the word, gu means darkness and ru means remover. So it's really the remover of darkness. And when you have someone who can play that out, that role, it's very helpful just to have that guide.

Mason:

It's amazing, because the guru, when the West became aware of gurus and there's so many success stories, especially when the Eastern gurus come over to the West and that's a whole nother test for them. They've never needed to be in this kind of society as well. So a bit rocky. And then that even the word guru as you know, is everyone's like, "Oh gosh, just be your own guru." And it's like, "Oh. That's such a fucking naive thing to say in terms of, I can just figure it out on my own."

Dylan Smith:

It's obviously a very advanced stage and you have to have both all those aspects to be able to be your own when needed and to have someone. But in the Vedas especially, it talks about how really having a guru is very powerful and very helpful. But it's also, especially in the West, a lot of people who want a guru or desire one. And again, it's the journey you're on, the karma. Not only that stage of life like you were saying, but also the type of person. I have a strong Saturn. I could stay at that clinic and being tested by the teachers, but the German lady, she left, she couldn't take it. So it's also up to that person and what's their path, maybe it's without a guru or some aspect.

Mason:

And that's personally where I sit. And like many people in the West, I feel like obviously the model's going to need to be different and it's going to need to be at scale. This is why in the '50s, I'm talking about the classic Chinese medicine. And the same has happened to Ayurveda where it's just, "Screw this, we don't need this." How we could possibly have enough gurus to possibly support the distribution of this much knowledge. It's not a scalable model. So that's what they did. Chinese medicine as well, was taken to universities and then it's going, "We missed something pretty fundamental there. So then what's going to be the path to bring that, that's invisible, which is the facilitation of making sure that you've embodied and you're actually ready. Not because there's an ego going, "No, I'll tell you to say no." There's objective realities.

 

If you want to be working with someone at this advanced stage of illness or this advanced stage of walking them through whatever's psychologically going on, you have to be able to have this perception. So I don't know, I actually am not saying that I'm a fan of it or anywhere, but you can see it's like, is technology going to build to help us find that objective embodiment phase? Or is it going to be like, no, we're going to need to just let medicine be on the scale there and then just go back and start cultivating that one on one or one to a few teaching. But yeah, I personally-

Dylan Smith:

It's a whole scale of it. One or the other. It's both utilising both as well.

Mason:

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. There's going to be so many... Everything is emerging right now and that's where I do relate when people say, "I don't want to sit with that single person." I'm like, "Yeah, that's where I feel that was a very clear thing that I have downloaded early on." Not that that doesn't come with its challenges, but it's also that's stopped me from trying to walk down, like I say, a practitioner path or specifically educating about something around psyche or phase of life.

 

I'm like, "Okay, I've had to realise that I need to step back from that." When you're in mid-twenties, you're going, "Oh yeah, this is easy to educate about this stuff and get people feeling motivated, so on, so forth." I'm like, "All right, let me track back from that." And that's been fascinating. But yeah, so I really do relate to people in that level. But it's important then to not sit in that rejection of guru and, or a teacher that holds you accountable to the lineage. Because that's something I also realised very quickly that I have a huge respect for people that are able to walk that objective path of integration.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah. For me, it's... And in the Vedas also, it says, mother is the first guru, the father's the second guru and then the guru is the third. And of course, a lot of people don't have that close connection to their parents. But ultimately, there's a potential for a parent to have that very direct communication, that direct lineage of giving and governing to some extent, governing in a good way, in a higher intelligence. And my experience, and I'm not at all the perfect, you could say guru disciple relationship. You can look at other people who are like, "I'm not giving back as much as I could. I'm not doing certain things." We call it guru Dakshina or guru donation. How do you reciprocate? The right way or not at all?

 

But what I can say is, and it's great, mentors play a massive role, whether it's teacher, whether it's podcast, whatever. A friend, a men's group, a women's group. But when you have someone who can be so authoritative for you and have this power for you, which is on the level of heart. From my experience, I can say the love for guru is like no other love. And the respect and the power, it's like an expression of a divine higher intelligence in direct communication with you, guiding you in a human body. It's pretty helpful in their day. Sure, you could get that from celestial beings, you could get that from spiritual experiences. So there's different ways. And as you're saying, the masses, the mass communication, that's ultimately the direction we're moving in because the population's increasing. And time, people's time and people are more time poor. Even my teachers, they're so time poor. So that's why 5, 10 minutes in the beginning a day...

Mason:

The 5, 10 minutes a day, it's always such a common thing that you find. But how do you communicate that? Because that would, if you are in the path, facilitating a retreat and really communicating, this is why this is important. It gives me anxiety thinking of facilitating an event.

Dylan Smith:

It wasn't when I was facilitating. That was my personal experience.

Mason:

Okay.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah. So then later actually it was a blessing for new students because I could facilitate more time and I also had the experience of how to manage them and deal with them and work it all. And so yeah.

Mason:

Work with Western psychology and expectations as well.

Dylan Smith:

And the Eastern psychology and hey these guys, we need to communicate. We can't just be in silence all the time or can't just be minimal words of the subtle consciousness.

Mason:

That's the wild part of having these cultures, these deep and ancient cultures come together. It's such an incredible, messy and awesome thing.

Dylan Smith:

And when they come here, it's even more messy, when they come to Australia because you have definitely that different expectation, where if someone's going to the East, they're more, obviously they've flown, they've taken that pilgrimage to get there, so they're a bit more ready. But I've had so many funny, interesting, amusing experiences of whether it's people coming to the Panchakarma clinic in India, whether it's people having a consultation with them in Australia when they come and be like, "Are you serious?" Because they're conditioned to certain things and expecting certain things. So I think really having no expectation of any outcome, completely surrendering and having an intention, but being unattached to that..

Mason:

Well, it's probably because it's going to come back to very simple principles

Dylan Smith:

Or it's, for example, the doctor is not telling you much because in the West especially, people want to intellectualise, know what's wrong. "Oh, I'm asking, I've had this chronic condition." But the way I've learned and my teacher's approach is, "I don't want to tell you what's wrong. I just want to treat you. Because in Ayurveda, the number one quality for successful healing is to surrender to the physician. Why should you be thinking about your health and analysing it? If you're going to think more, you are going to just grow it. 'Geez, why is this blood sugar not going down? Why is this rheumatoid arthritis not leaving? I've done all these things I've fasted. Maybe it's the milk that I'm drinking or maybe it's the exercise I'm doing.' But that's just keeping your awareness on the joint issue.'" It's growing more, whether my teachers and the doctors and the Ayurvedic approaches, forget about it.

 

Enjoy your life. You have good energy, you have a family, a partner, put your awareness on that. You should not be thinking about your own health. And I had to learn this a lot as a student in their clinic. Because I was getting treated at the same time as learning. And I was like, "Oh, why giving me this treatment? Why did my skin react to this?" Eventually I had to learn, no more thinking about myself, no more talking about my own health at all. And that's what physicians have to do as well. It's said in Ayurveda, the physician should not be treated by himself, by another physician. Complete surrender. Don't think about yourself. Let the Veda, let the physician take care, then enjoy your life.

Mason:

That's where then the Western mind's going to come in and go, "But no, how am I going to know to prevent it next time?" And so on and so forth.

Dylan Smith:

Of course they share things to do, but especially with the treatment aspect, it's like even not knowing what the herbs are, not knowing what they do. Just take them.

Mason:

Well, that's allowing a specialist to be a specialist.

Dylan Smith:

That's a very fine balance because in the West, you don't want to do that. In the West, you want healthy scepticism, otherwise you'll get the surgery without, "Oh, you could have just done few weeks of yoga and avoided that knee surgery."

Mason:

Yeah, that's wild actually, because that is true.

Dylan Smith:

That's the balance I've been dealing with a lot with people and that's why it's so hard. But if you can find that physician that you trust and that you to him, it's not just a physician. To you, that physician is even some divine aspect is within them some higher consciousness where you can understand and if you can and you trust, because you got to have that trust. Whether it's whatever, where you get that trust, whether it's from someone telling you about them, that yes, they're all natural, they know what they're doing. They're not interested in money. Whatever it takes you to surrender to them. I can't say. If you can, you'll reap the benefits of treatment.

Mason:

And you just said the trust. And that's the interesting part we're in. Whether we're going and seeing an acupuncturist or an Ayurvedic practitioner going, "Are you going to talk about this from a Western lens? Is that how you are treating me?" So I need to, in the beginning, whenever I'm working with a, getting my acupuncturist moved away and it's been very difficult because I would surrender. And then he'd be like, I'd ask every now and then, "Anything come up?" He's like, "Oh no, are you doing morning? Are you practising in the morning? Are you thinking too much? Yeah, well that's all you need to know. That's why what's been going on. I'm going to work on your Spleen a little bit."

 

But that's as much as he'd give me. And I'd be like, "You know what, I'm happy with that." And now I'm like, "Are you thinking in the Wu Xing or are you thinking in Western?" And then I test there and then I need to remind myself, "Okay, once I can trust that that person is treating in alignment with the classics, then it is again that point." Or maybe not even, maybe regardless, just like no, if you trust that person enough to turn up and pay them money and lie on their table, then maybe the prerequisite should be you tuning out and not asking questions and just focus. It's a really liberating thought.

Dylan Smith:

Yes, when you're there, when you get on that table, definitely you should completely surrender, but what you're doing also is healthy. Even I have the same when I see some practitioners here and I do not surrender like I do to my teachers. So I definitely am and not fully going with them.

Mason:

Well, again, and that's how that's interesting as a goal in terms of finding those practitioners and cultivating those communities where we do have the capacity to surrender. That's nice.

Dylan Smith:

All I can say for now as it comes down to karma, of course it's not surrender to the karma. What is, I haven't found a practitioner because it's my karma. It's definitely, you can do that and move towards that. But aligning with that, being more comfortable in yourself, knowing everyone does their own research. No one gets it like that. So it's doing your own research, your own therapies, your own treatments, your own practises, and then having that higher value of guidance and of treatment from a physician.

Mason:

The karma, just where are we with time? We're okay. But bringing it home, I think about karma a lot. Just because I've got this... Have I even got it? Did I keep it up? No, I had it. We've got a book. In the Taoist museum, there was a quote, I had it up, I lost it. Oh, hang on. Let me see. What was it? SuperFeast, wholesale book. I saw this in a Taoist museum when I was in Wudang Mountain.

Dylan Smith:

That's awesome.

Mason:

And it was, oh yes, a good time for me to be logged out of everything. This is just absolutely captivating so far. This is such good podcasting. Okay, so it says The great doctor dissolves karmic inflictions, the high doctor cures diseases of the future. The intermediate doctor heals already manifested illnesses. The low doctor only has one static method. The charlatan doctor causes people to die. And it was interesting to see them utilising that word of karma, which is their roots, and it's nice of Taoism knows where it came from. I think about that a lot.

Dylan Smith: (52:51):

Oh, that's the root of the disease.

Mason:

Well, I'm interested there. And because karma does have then even for me it to say, "Oh, whatever. That's what all you can do." But in terms of us being our own great doctors in one way, and also there have been great doctors and great teachers out there in the world supporting us to engage with nature enough that we can get into flow, that we can integrate those karmic inflictions. We can ride the waves so they don't rupture.

Dylan Smith:

Exactly.

Mason:

Is that kind of way. Yeah.

Dylan Smith:

Sure. And you'd be interested in this one, like what you read, we have slokas or verses which you'll hear them when you engage more in scholarly Ayurvedic discussions or even lectures, even simple lectures. You might hear a physician or someone chanta sloka, which is chanting the ancient verses. And these verses very authoritative, they're true. And one of them is to dissolve diseases from past lives or karmic diseases. These are the things to do in order of efficacy, in order of importance. And I don't know it off by heart, so I can't tell you, but I'll tell you that number one is herbs.

Mason:

Yes.

Dylan Smith:

And then it goes to meditation and Yaga's which are the fire ceremonies. So it's very interesting that the herbs are number one.

Mason:

The herbs are so accessible.

Dylan Smith:

There's another one in Ayurveda says Vaidya, Dravya, Paricharak, Rogi. So is pada is like pillar, the foot. The pillar of treatment is number one, the bishop, the physician. Number two, the Dravya, the herbs. Number three, the Paricharak, the technician or the nurse, the one who does the treatments. And then number four is the Rogi, the patient. So you need those four things for treatment, physician, herbs, nurse and patient. The number one is the physician, importance. Number two is the herbs, then the nurse, then the patient. Even if the patient, patient is last, even if they don't surrender or they don't do anything. If you have a good physician and you have good herbs, you can treat them.

Mason:

That's so liberating in terms of, we talk about living in an abundant world, but hold that intention for however many hundred years it takes for integration to occur. Where we focus so much here on decentralised bringing medicine into the household. But then I'm really getting to the point where you can see that burden becoming so much on an individual who's decided to take on the responsibility and to been then in a little bit of dismay about going well, are there practitioners that you know of and just been able to walk into a hospital or walk into an office as we've just alluded to. When there's real disease and real deep karmic infliction, we want the abundance of just being able to experience life and be on our journey and then be in that routine preventatively and when disease hits to walk into that office and know that that doctor and the nurse has got us. It's really liberating to think of that.

Dylan Smith:

I was saying with the 26-year-old cancer patient does not know of anything. People, they don't know, they only know the conventional and it's very limited, especially with things like tumours or a lot of these things. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's helpful and of course, necessary. Surgery, we do great. I've seen the West is doing pretty good with surgery. They're not having that aspect, whether it's the herbs to shrink the tumour to help the surgery so that the surgeon can have more success.

Mason:

Likewise with the chemo and radio, that's like-

Dylan Smith:

Side effects and everything.

Mason:

So just the preparation of the strengthening the body and even if you don't want to interact in the middle of it, but keeping the hormones not smashed and keeping the body lubricated or keeping the immune system not being absolutely devastated so that you come out the other side of these treatments, there's a golden age coming, you can feel, can't you?

Dylan Smith: (56:45):

That's why what you're doing in SuperFeast is really important. The herbs, preserving the quality herbs. And I think what we intend to do with One Eleven as it grows is really to similar things of it. Doing work with farms and wild cultivated herbs and protecting it. And because even in India it's becoming corrupted. We have the Himalayan mafia, all these things of... So we need to really preserve these, just like nature. Everywhere I need to preserve and herbs are just one part of that.

Mason:

Is there any other light you can give us in terms of the tradition of sourcing in a particular way? Is there the terminology?

Dylan Smith:

Oh, so much. It's to do with Jyotish . So harvesting on certain astrological times.

Mason:

Love it, love it.

Dylan Smith:

Using certain mantras, planting something when you take, and it's a lot about the consciousness of the person harvesting it. Obviously that's not easy. We have, for example, in India when we deal with the wild herbs, we call them the tribal people, the forest people. There's alcohol in them, some there's not. When those tribal people get corrupted with money, then it's hard. So we try to find that balance of, "Okay, we don't want them to learn about this Western money because then they'll get into that money mindset." But some of them are pure, some of them are there, living there very in harmony in their forest, doing meditation, have temples in the forest and they harvest and they're happy. But some others get corrupted.

Mason:

Yeah, it's nice to have very practical, there's signs. If you see someone getting like, okay, let's look at the Di Dao. I think there's going to be an equivalence there, of course. And it is very, people say, "How do you know? How can you trust so on and so forth?" We're purchasing the very highest quality of herb you can possibly get, which is the same. And you go into specialty food stores and truffles and all those real high-end cheeses and so on and so forth. You're going to be able to tell if someone's mistreating say their goats. You're going to be able to tell if they're not a high Alps, high altitude kind of operation. They're the ones that the chefs know to go to. And it's the same with herbs. You can sense straight away when the water's changed, if it's been, "Screw it, let's just pick it now."

Dylan Smith:

Twigs in.

Mason:

Yeah, "Well, let's just screw it. We should wait for another week. But this is just going to be convenient." Because taking the herbs, you're like, "No. Can tell, shit." And so it's nice having those macro ways of measuring the quality of herbs rather than using breathalysers before the harvest.

Dylan Smith:

And a deep aspect also in Ayurveda is not only harvest, it's also processing, purifying the herb. Even the physician. As a physician, if I'm giving a herb, even my consciousness is there as well and my responsibility comes into play. So you could take a herb dried to finish, the farm's done and a physician does something with it, whether it's charging it up, enlivening the prana in it.

Mason:

Hell, yeah.

Dylan Smith:

It's not only that, doesn't stop once the herb's harvested. This is what I said, Hasta Vasti, giving the healing hand, that's not only about touching therapies, it's about giving medicine. There's certain treatments, which is actually the main reason I bring my teachers to Australia is they give a certain medicine but they can only give it in person. People usually travel to India for it, just for it's a three to five day treatment. They'll go there for five days, come back literally from all around the world. The reason we bring them so more people can have access to it. And it's not so much about the herb. The herb, it's not about. It's about the healing hand. It's about how they prepare that herb.

Mason:

Hell yeah. I think there's so many layers to herbalism. And I think, yeah, that's probably another conversation. We can go into the layers of the appropriate usage of herbs.

Dylan Smith:

Exactly.

Mason:

In the household, verse slight little more aggressive herbs for treatment than what happens when you get into that clinical space.

Dylan Smith:

Sure. Food, putting food herbs into food. Sometimes it's just a waste. You put into your smoothie or whatever. Yeah, it's more like a food not getting that therapy from the harvester to the consumer.

Mason:

Yeah, that's why I didn't talk a lot about the values of, it would be interesting to hear for your One Eleven but Ayurveda's probably, you know exactly more of your clinic is the...

Dylan Smith:

Yeah. And education.

Mason:

And education. So of both, everyone talks about the values of an organisation or a clinic, so on and so forth. I have to relate to them as virtues rather and something that's emergent. If we are acting in alignment with the herbs of lineage or even ethical way of doing business and one of them is reverence and that's exactly what it'll lose to is every at every part in terms of what people wanting to partner with us. Do you understand what you're working with here? And I need to see the evidence. And if I see that you're not... And it's been an interesting thing as we've been scaling.

Dylan Smith:

So interesting.

Mason:

You have to align with it and have to get on and have hard conversations because often it's not fair to just cut people off if they didn't even realise that this is the expectation. And so that's been in going, "Is there reverence there? Do you get it and do you guys talk about it in a particular way?"

Dylan Smith:

How much do I stay with you and allow you to grow into that?

Mason:

That's interesting and well that's almost an iniation, that's when you've got to have, I've got to be the guru of SuperFeast and go like, "Have you got it? I'm going to give you another opportunity."

Dylan Smith:

It's beautiful. Relating to people.

Mason:

Thankfully it's objective and this is the kind of thing I've had a hard time taking those objective sensory things and grounding them into reality of constitution expression of what these virtues are, so on and so forth. But I like talking to yourself. You are working in the exact same realm and then where you've got One Eleven going, "All right," then playing around, how do we scale it while staying alone?

Dylan Smith:

What I've learned, I spent time at organic India's farm last year.

Mason:

Cool.

Dylan Smith:

And I got insight into their business. It's amazing business. They sell something like 300 tonnes of tulsi a year, metric tonnes they're harvesting. It's amazing. And I went to their factory. It's the one of only that kind of factory in India, it's called L-E-E-D Association. So anyway.

Mason:

The owners live around here. Yeah, right down.

Dylan Smith:

I won't say where.

Mason:

Give them their privacy.

Dylan Smith:

But again, with him from whatever, just thinking what I could share here. But it is that balance of, it's scaling. Well, we were having this conversation earlier. You're losing ideally how you can do it. But the reality is when you're scaling, you can't do what you can do with small scale niche. So it's find that balance. And I think it's having both, because some people are not going to enter the small scale niche concentrated aspect and some can get exposed to that mass. And then when they want to go deeper, they can go. And it's all interesting. Maybe we can, with the energy put towards the farming and towards the growers and the people who are harvesting it, when they have that dignity and that true heart in it, we can make it mass scale. And that's what Organic India did very well. The suicide was so high in India, it still is in the farming industry.

 

They drink the pesticide because they have not a good life. And Organic India, and props to them. They went there and they really wanted to create an organic revolution. That was the intention. And they gained these farmers, good pay, good thing. And they gave them dignity to actually grow with passion and realised the value of this. And that's a huge thing. And I don't say how much to that extent that they did, but I know one of my goals is to go to what I was saying, these tribal communities who are drinking and sometimes they need a Westerner to spark it, but the tribals, I don't even know because my teacher says, "No, you cannot go there. They will shoot you with the poison arrows. Even if we go, because we're not that tribal." So giving them dignity, giving them the love, it's very tricky. And how to do that, I think is as a collective, we have to put our energy towards that.

Mason:

And that is the interesting thing that we've got because with our heritage, we've got alcohol in our DNA so we know how to navigate it. And that's something that the West has brought to the East, mass production, mass capacity to just have as much alcohol and tobacco and drugs and all that kind of stuff. And it's overwhelming. And that's where we do have that responsibility.

Dylan Smith:

India especially, I can't say about China or those other Asian countries because I haven't spent any time in China or much time in the others. But I always say India metabolises Western influences very bad. Whether it's alcohol, they don't know how to regulate or anything, they just abuse it. Whether it's light. You go to India, it's the worst light. Bright LED lights in the house onto 12:00 AM, 1:00 AM. So many people need to sleep with lights on or it's the internet, the screens, the tech industry there, is shocking. The food they eat at 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night. So they're very bad at metabolising. It's like the British when they invaded, they just brought this in and it was very shocking. That's why India's so full of pollution. Everyone chucks their rubbish because it used to be banana leaves and compostable stuff, which their plates. Now they're chucking out their plastic plates. Plastic is another thing, which is they've really metabolised badly.

Mason:

We'll get there.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah.

Mason:

All right, thanks man. You've got a few places for people to follow you?

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, I've got Vital Veta on Instagram.

Mason:

And you're killing it. I just had a look.

Dylan Smith:

We had a viral video.

Mason:

Just one viral video that did it?

Dylan Smith:

Basically.

Mason:

Wow. Which one was it?

Dylan Smith:

It was one of me talking about, it was in silence. No music. Just of me praying to food before I eat it. Not eating with phones and screens. It was about that message.

Mason:

Obviously-

Dylan Smith:

We find before, it was... And it's a common thing I prescribe to people is, especially those who are in the middle of a workday or with hyper-stimulate nerve system, is to just shift out of that sympathetic, that fight or flight into parasympathetic, rest and digest before you eat, whatever that is for you. Whether you need to take deep breaths or you need to say a prayer, or you need to feel your pulse. And just, even if it's the best organic food, you need to shift to that ritual of eating. So that's what that was.

Mason:

That's the kind of simple stuff that you want to make sure people are, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Now give me all the advanced stuff." It's like, "No."

Dylan Smith:

Right, exactly.

Mason:

That one, right?

Dylan Smith:

So that and Vital Veda podcast. And we've mentioned One Eleven health. I've also got education there.

Mason:

Heck yeah. And you got practise opening up here?

Dylan Smith:

Yeah, well yeah, for sure. I practise in Northern Rivers and practise in Sydney. I'm going to Perth and Brisbane. I'm visiting regularly.

Mason:

That's great.

Dylan Smith:

Yeah. And online of course, mostly actually I do online consultations.

Mason:

Love your work, man. Well, now I look forward to having another chat with you soon. And go well.

Dylan Smith:

Thanks, brother.