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Back for part two of their chat on conscientious parenting, Mason and Tahnee come together today to expand their discourse into the area of the conscious and subconscious mind, exploring how ingrained patterns of thinking and behaving influence our ability to show up for our children and partners in the ways we desire, and that awareness and presence are ultimately at the crux of all these things.

Tahnee speaks to the RIE parenting method and the work of Magda Gerber and Janet Landsbury, sharing their framework around empathy, and how to use it as a tool of inquiry and understanding, especially when experiencing interpersonal difficulties with your child.
 
The topic of empathy poses the existential question; how do we walk on the hot coals of our experience with grace and regulation?

Tahnee and Mason both champion engaging with personal practice and developing tools that enhance the cultivation of your mental, physical, and spiritual capacity, whether these be through herbal allies, meditation, movement, breath, or self compassion. 

Tahnee emphasises how difficult it can be to break habitual patterns, recounting a recent experience she had relocating the tea towels in her home, Tahnee found she kept going back to their previous location, which stands as a simple (and very sweet) reminder that it takes time to change and it's imperative that we allow ourselves humility as our bodies and minds catch up to new terrain.

Rhythm, routine and being realistic with expectations are also explored, along with using play as a tool for learning. 

Another stimulating conversation between our favourite pair. 

 

“I feel like there’s a really special thing that children bring in terms of our spiritual and evolutionary development, and that’s really shining the light into where we’re maybe not the most present and not the most conscious. So, that, to me, is the journey of parenting is that, yeah, it’s meeting that need to be present.”

-Tahnee Taylor.

 

Mason & Tahnee discuss:

• Empathy for your child's experience as a key pillar in conscious parenting.
• How to communicate with your kids without being condescending. 
• The books and tools Tahnee & Mason use to support their parenting intentions.
• Treating your child like an individual with unique needs, regardless of their age.
• Using rhythm and routine to create stability/safety in the family culture.
• How to use seasons and celebratory festivities to punctuate time throughout the year. 
• The work of Rudolf Steiner.
• The importance of encouraging play, wonder and magic in parenting. 
• Using Astrology, German New Medicine and Human Design to support your children. 

Mason Taylor

Mason Taylor is the CEO/Founder of SuperFeast and a renowned tonic herbalist. On a soul mission to bring people back to their body and nature while bursting through dogma, he shares passionately and uniquely in his workshops, podcast, and content on how to cultivate healing and potentiation through health sovereignty. An expert in Taoist tonic herbalism, Mason has helped tens of thousands of people globally discover medicinal mushrooms, adaptogenic tonic herbs, and the healing philosophy from which they emerged. Mason is also a budding comedian; bursting the bubble on the “health scene” with his antics.

Tahnee Taylor

Tahnee is a self proclaimed nerd, with a love of the human body, its language and its stories. A cup of tonic tea and a human interaction with Tahnee is a gift! A beautiful Yin Yoga teacher and Chi Ne Tsang practitioner, Tahnee loves going head first into the realms of tradition, yogic philosophy, the organ systems, herbalism and hard-hitting research. Tahnee is the business brains behind SuperFeast, wife to Mason, and devoted mama to Aiya and baby Leo, the newest addition to the Taylor family.

Resource guide

Guest Links
Tahnee's website
Tahnee's Instagram
Mason's Instagram

Mentioned In This Episode
RIE Parenting Method
Janet Lansbury
Magda Gerber
New Earth Mama Instagram
How to Talk So Little Kids Will Listen
German New Medicine

Related Podcasts
Conscientious Parenting with Mason & Tahnee Taylor Part 1 (EP#200)

Connect With Us
SuperFeast Instagram
SuperFeast Facebook
SuperFeast TikTok

Check Out The Transcript Below:

 

Mason:

Okay. Hello, everybody. Tahnee's back.

Tahnee:

I am back.

Mason:

I think it's a good call. I think we covered everything we wanted to cover in that first podcast about conscientious parenting, conscious parenting, but since our producer picked up, there were lots of ... I think you actually said, "You're going to have to do another one just around the tools and the philosophies and the things that you use to apply to parenting and go through them."

Tahnee:

Yeah. So, our producer made a note that at the end of the last one, I mentioned we haven't really talked about, I guess, the more woo aspects of how we approach parenting, including things like astrology and human design and Rudolf Steiner's work. And even just since we've recorded the last podcast, I guess I've been thinking a lot about the nature of conscious parenting and what that means. And so, yeah, I think it's been a few weeks now, probably.

Mason:

Yeah, a few weeks. It's probably always longer than we think it is. It's probably been six weeks.

Tahnee:

A few months.

Mason:

Yeah.

Tahnee:

And we've also travelled with the kids overseas in that time. And so, I think, yeah, just being in that intensive flow of parenting, I've had a few insights, I guess, around what I think on a more meta level of what we're actually doing when we're parenting.

 

So, yeah. And also, I suppose the course I took last year with Jane Hardwicke Collings, a lot of her work is around looking at the links between our own journey as children and how we were raised and parented and then how we parent and that self-parenting aspect, and that comes out of Steiner's work as well. So, yeah, hopefully I can do justice to some of those ideas as we talk. I don't-

Mason:

Well, and you do justice, because you apply them in your way as well. I feel like you're pretty well-read on all of these things as well, just to apply the service.

Tahnee:

Yeah. I think I like to expose myself to lots of ideas and then cherry-pick those that seem to be relevant or true. I've been thinking about this a lot, actually, that idea of true, and it really can only be true to you or to me. And it's an application of this idea or concept, can I see truth, can I see evidence that it's working? And I think I've always had that scientific, more of a true science, testing things and trying them out, and if there's a repetitive result that seems to be working, then that can become something that I use within my ... You talk about having a family culture, and I think that's how I approach these kinds of things. I've never been one to really fall into a complete system of parenting, and I wanted to talk about a few parenting styles, so I'll jump into that.

 

But I really like RIE Parenting, which I was first told about by Emma, who's @newearth.mama on Instagram, and she recommended Janet Lansbury's work to me when Aiya was maybe two or she was quite small, and I read her book and listened. I've never actually listened to her podcast, sorry. I've read through a lot of her podcast transcripts on her blog, and I really like her approach, which I guess it's very similar to a lot of the things I've ended up falling into. If you are in a place of regulation and groundedness and you know really clearly what you want and you're consistent and you're communicating clearly and consistently, which is really fricking hard, so I'm not trying to say that like, "Just do that and you'll be fine," but to me that's the crux of all of it, really.

 

I don't follow RIE in any sense that I haven't gone and studied it, I don't really know much more about it. I did read one of Magda Gerber's books, but I didn't really go and immerse myself in that. But that concept, to me, really resonated with my experience as a yoga teacher and in my own relationship with my body and working through things like eating disorders and stuff, it's like when you feel that dysregulation coming, that's when you start to make poor decisions, and you start to come from that reactive place. And I still feel that when I'm really tired and run down, the subconscious pattern or habit would just kick in, and it's so incredible how long it can take to break that subconscious pattern.

 

This is a really dumb example, but we moved our tea towels from the bottom drawer to a dresser thing over on the side of our kitchen, and I still, and it was like, what, eight months ago?

Mason:

Hmm. Yeah. Stuff that you-

Tahnee:

And I still go to that bottom drawer looking for the tea towels. And I'm like, "I'm just going to put them back there." But it was a really interesting example to me of how long it takes to untangle a subconscious habit, because we're both people that are reasonably intelligent, and I still don't know where my tea towels are, even though there was a conscious choice made to put them somewhere else.

(05:06)

So, yeah. Thinking about that in terms of parenting, so much of what we do is what we know through being parented and then through media and culture and anyone who's around us. So, if that's all we know, yeah, I guess that's what we're going to play out. And I think my interest, I suppose, is just to expose myself to as many things as possible, and then to find where that truth lies for me and what works with my kids as well. And even with our two children, we've had quite different, I feel like there's been a fairly different journey with both children in terms of how we've parented them up to the point we're at. Yeah, and I can see that being different for both of them throughout their lives as such different people.

 

That's the piece that I think, with conscious parenting, when you think about it's not this woo-woo spiritual ... I think conscious, for me anyway, has some entities attached to it. It's more about how aware and present can I be with the decisions that I'm making and holding them with the children and then being able to check in, is this actually a functional, supportive decision for the family? Because I've made calls that were out of reactivity. And then I've had to be, "You know what? That was actually a bad decision, and I don't want to have that boundary," or, "I don't want to set that rule. I don't want to discipline you that way right now. That wasn't great parenting." Or there's times when I'm like, "This is a hard-and-fast rule in our family, and it's going to stay, and you're going to meet it. And if you don't like it, I'm going to hold that for you, but it's happening." I think both have their place.

 

And that's where, to me, the conscious aspect comes in that you're able to be self-reflective and aware of your own process and not just leaking all over your kids with your BS. Not everyone had bad parenting experiences, but we all have conditioning. I feel like children are especially uniquely designed to get under our skin and poke us where we're really weak. I don't know if it's just our kids, but I feel like there's a really special thing that children bring in terms of our spiritual and evolutionary development, and that's really shining the light into where we're maybe not the most present and not the most conscious. So, that, to me, is the journey of parenting is that, yeah, it's meeting that need to be present.

 

And I find it hard, I've had a really dysregulated nervous system this week, because we've been doing some stuff with Leo's sleep that we didn't have to do with Aiya, and I've found it hard to hold space for him when he's crying and upset, because that's not something I feel like I ever had modelled to me. And I personally find that the sound deeply dysregulating of him crying, and my body wants him to stop, because that's my biology. But then another part of me is like, "No, but this is for him. It's actually what he needs to move through, and I'm seeing the benefit of that."

 

So, there's this payoff in terms of, and that's where I've been really leaning in my practise more this week. I've been doing pranayama again, which is breath work, I guess, if you're not from yoga, and just a lot of in bed, just things to regulate my nervous system, like yoga nidra, and those are tools I lean on when I'm feeling like I don't have the capacity to hold what's happening. But yeah, it was different with Aiya when she was three. I felt like that was when I had that experience with her, where she pushed me to my limit of regulation. Yeah. It's different with different kids, I guess. We just never had that early on with Aiya. She was….

Mason:

Well, I think when you're talking about conscious parenting, I think you're bang on there. Look at our own capacity to make ... I guess I don't have agency around our actions and our words, so that we're not just modelling. At least, of course, we can't just be conscious every single moment of what our actions are. We need habitual actions as well. But at least going through, every once in a while, going and reflecting, even if it seems like something that's a good way of parenting, going, "Do I still like this? Is this engaging?" And I think the balance there is always them having the capacity to have empathy for where the children are at and where their psyche's at, so on and so forth. And I think that's something probably we haven't really, when you talk about Janet Lansbury's work and that there were a bunch of times when ... So, we're really lucky to have child psychology and people who are experts, who we might not have village culture where those mums are….

Tahnee:

Yeah. The older aunties, uncles. Yeah.

Mason:

... like, "Look, this is what's going on. It's fine." We're able to go to, because maybe they're in their own little, maybe their world is very specific, and we want to be able to explore the edges, which we all can now for better or worse. But there's lots of times you'd get a Janet, a wonder week like Aiya's going through this at this stage, and we'd be like, "Oh, okay. That's right. She's not just trying to torture to us."

 

But even as obvious as it sounds, it's the same when I was talking about when Cole was on the podcast, the Osteo Cole, he was like, "Maybe the kid has a headache, maybe it's uncomfortable, maybe it's hips, or maybe it's in pain, and when it's awake it doesn't really notice it but at night when it goes to sleep, it really becomes evident." It's just like, "Yeah, that's right." There's so much to become empathetic towards in balance, but I think they're the two, that that's the dance that I think you've especially really pushed into our parenting style.

Tahnee:

I want to stop on that quickly because I feel like babies that can't talk or understand, I really agree with Magda Gerber that all babies are present to their reality. But I feel like, as Leo's 15 months now, I think, he was born in April 2022, and this is July 2023, so he's around that sort of 14, 15 month mark, and he now understands. If I talk to him, he gets it. We're in communication now, whereas when they're little babies, I think I'm super permissive at that stage. It's whatever works. I'm not one for really bringing in much, and maybe I'm wrong in this, I don't know if it's right, but for me, when they're little, it's just you meet their needs all the time, whenever. So, if they're screaming and crying, you assume that they need help. They need something, it's not they're trying to torture you.

 

I think as we get to a little bit older, again, it's not that they're trying to torture to you, but toddlers are working through a lot of processing of their emotional capacity, regulation, boundary testing. They're really seeing where you're not holding consistency, so that's where ... And again, I want to be really mindful that I can feel like they're trying to get you, but I don't in my heart believe that. It's just that feeling, and again, that's our being dysregulated and assuming the worst, but yeah.

Mason:

Yeah. It was always a good practise as well. You go into the assuming of the worst, or not everyone does, but just say you pop up into that place and then you go, "Right, I'm at the bottom of another mountain. Now I'm going to have to learn how to empathise with where they're at." And that's where all the tools come in, but I think it is a marathon and it's a slog, and that's just going to keep on coming up again and again. You're going to go through a period where you empathise, and I'm not talking absolutes, even though there's not, when you're like, "Oh, my God. Why are they doing this to me, and why couldn't it be easier?"

 

And you're like, "Oh! All right." The investigating hat comes back on, whether you investigate internally or to what they're going through or where you don't have a boundary or where they need to open up a boundary or whatever it is. Even when you gave me that book, when Aiya was just like, "Oh, man. She's just won't leave the playground." I can't remember what it was specifically. There were just so many things that just weren't working. And then the classic parenting style. But in that book, How to Talk So Children Listen.

Tahnee:

Little Kids Will Listen. Yeah.

Mason:

Little Kids Listen, it was just, "Oh, yeah. There's no way." And you say this to me all the time, because I get rational really quickly. She's like, "You can't rationalise with them right now." And I think sometimes it's like, "Okay, there's a way, not rationalise, but we can edge our way into bringing an appropriate rationalisation for them." But then there's also times when they are just off the wall and have done. But I'll just say, if you don't mind-

Tahnee:

Yeah.

Mason:

... I'll just, but most of the time, like you say, they actually don't have the capacity and that's a harrowing thing. Sometimes I've had moments where I've been really harsh in Aiya, but I know what I've been busy and been like, "Oh, my God. You have to do this right now." And being like, "No. I'm going to have some authority here. I'm not going to be pushed around by a kid. Do it." And it's then when you go, "Okay, maybe that's appropriate very much some times," but majority of the time it's just going to make it harder. And it's just about pride and about being right as a parent. "You can't push me around." Whereas it's just those simple little tricks in the book where it's just like, "Well just turn it into a game," like-

Tahnee:

Which you're really good at, play.

Mason:

I mean, I'm good when I have capacity, but it's ... Yeah.

Tahnee:

Well, I think, what I wanted to say about the rational thing, and that's a really important piece, and it took me a while for this to drop in and I'm like this. If I'm having an emotional breakdown and someone tries to tell me, "Honey, it's okay. Everything's fine." I'm just going to be like, "Fuck off. I'm not okay."

Mason:

That point in that book, when she was like, "Imagine you're having a …”

Tahnee:

Yeah. So, the book we're talking about, which I think I listened to a lot after, but that book for me, I listened to it on Audible, which I'd recommend because she does the voices and the communication, which I think is really helpful.

Mason:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. The tone's really good in the audio.

Tahnee:

Yeah. I can't imagine reading it would work quite as well, but maybe that's just me. But she has an example of you are talking to your friend and you're like, "Oh, I don't really don't feel like going to work today." And they're like, "Oh, but you love going to work. Work is the best. Pack your lunchbox and go to work." And she was like, "It's so demeaning to speak to someone that way."

Mason:

It was the condescending, I was in the gym, I was, remember I was on just, because of a …

Tahnee:

Work it out.

Mason:

... or something like that. I was just, because I really wanted to consume it and I didn't really want to work out that hard, so I just stay on a bike or something like that. But I remember when she was saying that, she'd be like, "Do you know how condescending it is when they don't want to go to school or they don't want to go to preschool," or whatever it is. And then you're like, "Oh, darling. You do. You love it." It's like, "Shut the fuck up, man!"

Tahnee:

Yeah. It's gaslighting.

Mason:

You're gaslighting your children. I remember I was just like, "Oh!" I've never been more, not that I'm like, I think I did that much damage or anything like that, but it just, I'd never felt more icky in terms of, especially when you think about, I'm not here to bash a strict Western or Australian parenting culture, but in terms of modelling, it's just like this is where I get annoyed and get into victim mode sometimes. And I'm like, "Is there anything automated that isn't condescending, what we do that we're modelling from our parents?"

Tahnee:

Yeah. And I think that's like ... I want to go back to the rational thing and then I think that's a really important thing to talk about. But, yeah, for me, if there's, and I use this all the time with Aiya, most days, we usually have our ... Whatever's going on, I'm just like, "All right. You're in it. We're going to work through it in the moment." Meet the need, whatever it is, if it's connection, if it's food, if it's quiet time, if it's just get the hell out of there because she's losing it. And, again, it doesn't happen as much now, but around 3 for us was that big time with Aiya where it was really hard and I just, yeah, it was do whatever you need to do in the moment to keep her physically safe and support her energetically and emotionally, which might be letting her rage in her bedroom.

 

There was a few of those, but then, and this is what I do now, especially. I'll lie in bed with her and we'll process the day and I'll be like, "What did you like about today? What didn't go so well?" And I'm just always amazed by her self-reflection, her capacity to understand. "I didn't enjoy that either. I didn't enjoy having a tantrum in the car after school and you said you'd bring me a snack and you didn't. Could you please make sure that I have a snack in the car?" That's a conversation we've had. So, that way, I always have a snack in the car when I pick her up.

 

It's just stuff like that. And I remember being so hungry as a kid and being told, "Wait for dinner," and I'm like, "I actually don't know if that's fair. If I'm hungry as an adult, I just eat some food." And I get all of this 1950s three meals a day stuff, but-

Mason:

Well, that's one of the best Seinfeld moments anyway. He is like, "Best thing when you're an adult you can do what you want. Call me up your mum and you're like, 'Hey mum, I just ruined my dinner. Cookies.'" And the thing is, you know there's another hunger coming. You can't actually ruin your appetite.

Tahnee:

Yeah, I think a lot of these things are just rules that we've internalised and I'm not even ... That's, for me, the consciousness. I'm like, I hear shit coming out of my mouth sometimes and I'm like, "What does that mean and why am I saying it? Where did I get that from?"

Mason:

I think we, and you can see the conscious spiritual community, it's just like, oh, we've got to burn everything that came before rather than be like, "Okay, let's just look at the manners," and sometimes the boundaries, sometimes how nice it is to sit down at dinner time and be the whole, okay, it's harder with a five year old or six year old, but, "Okay, you can have a snack, but eat what you want you to have a little bit of dinner and we want sit around and we want to talk," and that's done. I don't know. I'm not saying it all needs to get thrown out. There's context of that throw down or I know you're not implying. Okay.

Tahnee:

No, and I think that's the family culture piece, which you're big on in terms of, you've influenced me a lot in terms of thinking about this. What do we do as a family? And so, if it's 4:45 and dinners at 5:30, Aiya waits for dinner. That's fine. But if it's 3 o'clock in the car on her way home from school, there's a snack because she hasn't eaten since lunchtime. It's been a couple of hours. She's growing. Food is good. And it can be anything from a mandarin to an elaborate thing that I've made. It just totally depends on the day. So, I just think that to me is that just makes sense. It's common sense. It works. It means that I don't have a meltdown kid. It means we have a pleasant drive home. She's sweet to her brother. It's easy.

 

So, I think those are the things where I'm like, yeah, how do we unpick what is something? I want children, especially when they're older, but I'm also like, "I have a five year old and a one year old," and having a completely peaceful and organised mealtime is not the most realistic thing I can have.

 

Yes, maybe we'll get 10 minutes where everyone's sitting down and eating, but then invariably the baby's standing up and Aiya wants to talk about something and we're talking about adult things. There's always something. So, I just think we're at the stage, but we're setting the rhythm and the routine. And that's where Janet Lansbury and Steiner both speak to this. And I think that's to me  ... And this is very Taoist, it's very Ayurvedic, it's very all of these traditions that it's the circadian rhythms and the infradian rhythms and the ways in which each day is shaped that I was just in the bathroom before we started and there's that Taoist clock of all the organs and the times of day and what activities to do that we got from Jost. And kids love that stuff. They love knowing the rhythm and the routine. They love knowing what's coming next. They love participating in that.

 

And, yeah, if I don't make dinner, I think it's happened a couple of times in our entire life. But well, last night was a good example. We went to a party and there was no dinner and Aiya ate some sushi in the car, but we got home and she was like, "Oh, you haven't had dinner and we haven't done ..." She's really aware that we've missed a really important part of our family flow. And that's something that they really hook onto and connect to. So, I think, yeah, you decide what works for you and I think everyone can decide that. We luckily live in a time where that societal pressure isn't as strong. And yeah, little kids, we eat early, we go to bed early, but then when they're older I hope to sit up late with them and that'll be different.

Mason:

They were just simple, I know we probably we're chomping at a bit of astrology and Steiner should it when you get there. But in terms of the practical ones that I think you just said that, "What comes next?" That was a big one. Maybe we used to explain to ... Aiya'd be like, "But I want to do this." It's like, "No, you got to do this and then this." And then, I just get too heady and to be able to say to her, "After we eat, we take our plate up. After we take our plate up, we do this in this-

Tahnee:

Having it till that part of it.

Mason:

... particular order.

Tahnee:

I'm like, "It has to go on the right side of the sink because that's where the dirty dishes go." And that's been a training process. But we also use visual cues. We bought that thing that had all of the for her morning routine and stuff and her nighttime routine. And Aiya loved that. It was this little magnet thing and she stuck all of her ... She chose her flow and we'd be like, "Hey, have you done your morning routine or your nighttime routine?" And she'd go and do it. And yes, she needs our help sometimes, but she's a little kid. That's fine. And that's the thing, those kind of things I think really build ... Again, it's building their will, it's building their discipline, but to expect them to have it immediately I think is a bit silly. I'm 37 and still not super disciplined sometimes.

 

So, it's like, yeah, I just want to meet them there. And yeah, I think that's something where I think Steiner's work is really helpful because when you look at the rhythm of a day, the rhythm of a week, the rhythm of a year, and honouring the seasons and honouring those stages of life as we move through them, I think that's where I see that it gives them context within a bigger picture of meaning and time. And it's not linear time so much as that cyclical time. And I think, for children especially. And I remember as a kid, time really doesn't hold a lot of meaning when you're young. I remember summers felt like they went for years and school day could feel like ... Everything just felt very ephemeral and hard to pin down.

 

And so, I think for them, it's why kids love holidays and Christmas and yes, there's a gift aspect, but it's also these big things that punctuate their lives. And I've noticed that with Aiya, the moon rituals, the solstice, she knows those things and, yeah, I think that's really helpful to them in terms of framing out their lives as well.

Mason:

That was a good ... It's a wider society kind of thing. Steiner was really, I think that was something we started at kindy because we were okay with celebrating Christmas and I think Easter we wouldn't really do too much. But I remember that first year there was just like, "No. The kids, they love looking forward to a big festivity or a big celebration. So, we got to make a big deal."

Tahnee:

I'm an ex-Christmas cynic. I don't think I celebrated Christmas for eight years with my ex unless we had to go to family or something. I was like, "It's commercial, it's a waste of money. I don't get it. I don't believe in this bullshit," kind of thing. But now, I've always been into more the pagan holidays I guess. But again, I was like, I'm not a pagan, I don't really want to pretend I'm pagan because I'm not. And the same with the yogic festivals. I'm like, "They're beautiful, but I'm not Hindu, I don't ..."

 

So, I sort of always felt a little bit like ugh. And I think just when I started to think of them as Earth holidays, that for me was a big shift rather than even pagan festivals. So, yes, I used the pagan names, but I'm more, I think of it came down to me learning to relate to place and relate to my place in time and my place in seasonality and using the Moon and the Earth as references. That seems very human to me. It sort of takes it out of being religious or in any way attached to some cultural practise. And it's just like, yeah, this is about positioning myself in relationship to what's going on in the heavens and with Earth.

 

And again, it feels kind of Taoist and it feels I bit also true to me. I can land in that. And so, that's I think how I've felt that emerge out of myself since having children, especially since having children. And yeah, I think the school does a beautiful job and the Steiner community do a beautiful job of meeting those Earth holidays in their way. And, as a family, I guess we just we're building our culture with that around how we meet it. But yeah, I think those things have a lot of meaning for children. And I'm always surprised at how Aiya can get a ritual or something.

 

She's still 6 sometimes. And last time we was at new Moon, she was just babbling on pages about stuff and we were like, "Ugh." But she gets the idea that we're coming together in reverence. She understands the movements, that the Moon is changing. And that I think is a really important thing for them. And yeah, I think those things are really helpful.

 

And I think Steiner too, that sense of really holding the child as a special little being who is in childhood and who still sees magic and fairies and is in that liminal space between the world and wherever we come from, I think that is a really special thing for children to hold onto. And I think these Earth holidays and stuff can help them stay connected to that.

Mason:

Yeah, in terms of rationality, I realised sometimes just my autopilot of parenting would've been to take them into a rational world rather than just keep it emotional, magical. And yeah, I think that's probably one-

Tahnee:

You're really good at that though. So, Mason has these characters called Bernie Banana pants and Bernie Banana top, which came about because I used to never want to put her pyjamas on. And when they came out-

Mason:

Yeah, that was after reading the book on them when I was being lazy at the gym. It was that day, what that?

Tahnee:

No. It wasn't, because we only read that really recently.

Mason:

Oh, okay.

Tahnee:

It was when we were living in Coorabell. I don't know why you did it, but you did it and it was really good.

Mason:

But it was like, "Okay, she's not putting her pyjamas on." I remember it being a tactic because I-

Tahnee:

It's a tactic, but my point is, she fully believes ... She was explaining them to someone the other day and she's like, "They live in Coffs Harbour."

Mason:

But even with that, she asked me a couple of months, because she's got some older friends and her older friends are very quick to shit on everything, whether it's like ... It's always the Santa, "No." All that-

Tahnee:

Fairies.

Mason:

... stuff which ... No fairies, yep, "Don't exist." And it's also nice to let that happen and have our own little conversation without making them wrong. So on and so forth, so, anyway. But she was like, "Dad, are Bernie Banana tops actually real?" And I was like, "Oh," because I always think it's bullshit as well. The argument of what are you going to, start your children off lying to them about whether ... I think that's an absolute crock of shit because if you denied them, you're going to deny them access to that liminal world-

Tahnee:

Magic.

Mason:

... and magic, which is the time it is going to go away really quickly. And they're going to have cynicism tear into their world.

Tahnee:

It's available everywhere but magic isn't.

Mason:

Yeah. I can't remember exactly what I said. I was like, "Oh, my god. That worked out so much better than I thought it would." But I was like, "What do you think?" And I was like, "What would you like? Do you like engaging with them like that?" And she was like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Look, I think whatever you feel is the most fun, I think you should just believe that for now. Is it fun thinking about them?" Because they live at the Big Banana in Coffs Harbour and that's their house. And Aiya calls them and goes, "Can the guys come?"

Tahnee:

On her fingers.

Mason:

On her fingers. She goes, "Hello." And then I've got this, because I'm often in a tired mode. And they're going, "Eh." And they just don't even really answer. And she's like, "Can you come over?" And then she asks what jobs they've been doing at the Big Banana today and all that kind of stuff and they put her pyjamas on and it's super fun, and she was like, "Okay, this isn't real." They don't actually come into dad's hand. But it was nice to just give her that permission to be like, "Whatever you want is real." That worked out really well and now we're going to go to Big Banana soon. And we're going to visit their house.

Tahnee:

 

Mason:

But I guess that came out of that. I remember just being, "Just put your fucking pyjamas on." My most hated thing as a parent is sitting there waiting to put the pants on and one leg goes on and then she won't lift the other leg. And I remember it got to me a couple times.

Tahnee:

That's what I want to say is the…

Mason:

I don't know like-

Tahnee:

There's so many things to worry…

Mason:

When I was three and it was just going on for ages and it get to that point and I'd be bent down trying and just waiting and I'd be like, "Aiya, I'm not here to sit and be your-"

Tahnee:

Pant holder.

Mason:

" ... pants servant." And it just wasn't getting better.

Tahnee:

But you are, babe. That's the thing.

Mason:

Yeah, yeah. I know I am. But at the same time I wasn't getting anywhere so I was just like, "Cool." You have to gamify everything and having chats, like, "Do you have to do this for everything?" It's like, "Well, what? Are you going to whinge about everything?" No, you're not going to get this magical, obedient kid all of a sudden. Yes, you're either going to be like, "Oh, come on. I've told you. Do your teeth. No, do the bloody ones in the back." Or you can try and create a game or create a character.

Tahnee:

Or a song or a ... Yeah.

Mason:

Do a song about it. That was, yeah.

Tahnee:

I'm not as quick to be creative as you in those regards, but I do find it fun, eventually, too. I often have to say to myself, "Choose fun right now. Choose something that's going to create a nice memory, that's going to," as opposed to just losing my shit or being grumpy or whatever. And I find I get frustrated. That's my ugh! That's when I know I'm starting to lose it. And so, it's like, yeah, catching myself at that point and being like, "Okay, you're really frustrated right now. What can you do to give yourself some breathing room," or whatever.

Mason:

Even that exaggerating around going, acknowledging what they are. You hate the fact that we are making you put your pyjamas on. You just want to be naked and your stupid parents are coming into the room and getting stupid pyjamas and making you use stupid clothes when you just want to be naked all the time. She's like, "Yeah."

Tahnee:

Well, that's from the book Little Kids Can Listen. And that was a really good, I think we, just to give context to Masons, just saying that randomly. It was a lot of really good scripts I guess, that were sort of around using, getting your frustration out in a playful way, meeting them. I don't know, I felt like there was a lot of really good scripts that you could leverage and ...

Mason:

Yeah. Well, actually try and figure out how they're feeling and then exaggerate it.

Tahnee:

Yeah. What's their empathy and then bringing it, yeah, amplifying it.

Mason:

And I guess this is where in terms of when development and it's the keeping that liminal space, which is so many philosophies, but Steiner as well has been a really amazing one for us to be like, "Don't burst that bubble and keep there and stay there and stay emotional." That's where all this is coming from. And gamify everything and that means-

Tahnee:

I don't think Steiner gamifies, but yeah.

Mason:

Not that Steiner does. But yeah, I think it's that same realm of staying. That's a tool we use because we're probably a little bit busier than we could be at times.

Tahnee:

Well, I think the wonder piece, I remember when I first started to expose myself to Steiner's work with the intention of applying it to a child. I think I'd read a couple of his books from more the spiritual perspective before I had kids. But a friend of ours actually taught me this and she's like, "Anytime they ask you a question that's rational, like, 'Why does it rain,' or whatever, you say, 'I wonder,' and you leave it and leave it open-ended and leave it for them to rest in the sort of unknown." And I think that's such a beautiful gift to children. And I'm picking that because it's so many times as a kid you're told the answer or you're told something as a matter of fact and it actually stops you from really engaging. Why does water fall out of the sky in little balls? That's a beautiful thing to just reflect on for a minute.

 

And that, yeah, like you said, they're going to go find out when they're eight or nine or 10 why that happens. They don't need to know when they're little. And I think, yeah, I sometimes have, and I have friends who are the opposite. They want to teach their kids from really early on all of the things. And I don't think that's wrong necessarily. I've just, for me that keeping them in that mystery, and again, that's probably related to my own experience as a child and feeling quite out of it a lot of the time and quite really. Yeah, I think sometimes it can be really sad to lose that connection to the magic and that sense of the spirituality in a way. That's the mystery and the wonder and the joy of life. I think so many adults have lost that or have a lot of trouble connecting to that and ...

Mason:

Yeah, I think there's a huge reason of why people ... Everyone in our circle will say people are asleep or not engaged or just sitting in the world where you're like and you're constantly just trying to dominate or avoid being dominated, being reactive rather than actually being moved by yourself and your capacity to be in wonder or feel your muse or feel what's inspiring to you. That's where agency comes from. I think it's a serious, it is such a massive part of a child's development.

 

And then yet, if you do, I'm not part of an absolute no screen approach, but if you pile on rational thinking and then screen time and you're not having any of that, you're pretty much cutting them off from their source to be able to generate what's interesting or what's moving to them. And so, I think that's where, even if there is that screen time creeping in, I know there's a lot of, like people were saying, if you do that, they're going to start just getting programmed by the way that show is asking them to think creatively or see the world. So, it's not necessarily-

Tahnee:

Do you want to talk about coco melon? I'm just kidding.

Mason:

No. I just can't stand the idea of that.

Tahnee:

No, I mean, we don't do a lot of screen time and we're lucky that Aiya's quite sensitive to anything. She doesn't like anything scary with even like, "That's not scary." She's scared. So, yeah. She pretty much watches a handful of things very occasionally that pretty much nothing will turn really. And I use it more in the holidays when I'm losing my mind.

Mason:

But I think there's the point there is if you get to game time and you're like, "Oh," and what Tahns is saying, "Where do you think the rain comes from?" Or when I'm creating games when probably the biggest creative game time we have is when we're doing, I've got Hans the cane octopus, he's a hairdresser and so Aiya comes into the bath underwater, underwater and Hans does all that kind of stuff and she's really thinking laterally. I think it's really developing a lateral thinking and I think that's probably the most important skill. I remember what really sat with me going through all the Steiner stuff and then just being like, "This is why I know." And they're like, "I know it's hard not doing screens," but this is why we really encourage you not to do it.

 

I know Steiner can become its own cult thing, so don't worry. We're very aware of that, as up as all of them are. But it really stuck with me. I can really feel that world. And I was like, "Yes," that's my job is to cultivate that capacity for Aiya to just be bored and create something, be in wonder and create worlds rather than going, "Oh, yeah. It's like in," I don't know, "In some show," and be a character within the show. Let's just say like My Little Pony. "I'm just in My Little Pony and then I'm going to use that character." There's nothing being generated of her own.

 

So, you could see we're already quelling the muse.

Tahnee:

Yeah. Being infiltrated.

Mason:

Yeah, it's been infiltrated. I think that's where you got to guard. And I think that's where the gamification and so the parents can really model and for yourself as well.

 

Sometimes I'm amazed, I'm like, "Oh, I've actually," you go through waves. Obviously if ... I've watched it, mine gets squashed at university and then I've redeveloped it and now I'm trying to feeling it go down again because I'm not really in my creative space. It's not the time. And so, I'm like, "Oh, no, I can feel, I'm like, I've really got nothing." And then I'll work on it a little bit and I'll jump in and do more games with Aiya and create more worlds and I'll be like, "Oh, there's my excitement and my wonder and my music."

Tahnee:

Play is how humans learn. And I think that's the biggest thing we've forgotten as a collective is we're all self-motivated, curious, kind. I believe that's fundamental to humans. Children don't want to piss their parents off, really. They're meeting and I take responsibility. Most of the behavioural things I think we've experienced are probably our fault. We've been working bloody hard, carrying a lot, managing our own. We don't take it easy on ourselves either, that we're both constantly in some kind of process.

 

And I think Aiya, she's a projector in human design, which I haven't spoken about too much yet, but she's sensitive and aware and has a strong will. And I think it's just a constellation and we're all impacting each other in how we move through life. And I don't think that's bad, either. I think that's part of living in human society as we interact and engage with one another.

 

And I think living where we do, there's always people that have these very utopian and idealistic views of how the world could be. And yeah, I don't know. I don't necessarily buy into that much anymore. I think I would've not said that when I was in my twenties. But yeah, I'm sort of like, I think the world is as it is and we made it as we are. And that's this consciousness piece is constantly bringing awareness to how the manifestation is playing out because of how we're meeting it. And you said something earlier, and I've been sitting with this a lot in my own practise and life and I don't really have any answers at the moment, but the idea that raising children is a struggle and hard. I catch myself saying that a lot and I'm actually pretty sure that that's a bug in the system.

 

I think inherently it isn't hard, it's just that we put this pressure on ourselves to do all these other things in the time of raising small children and then, you could go into the capitalist stuff and there's all many people commenting on all of these ideas and I don't really, in terms of blaming and projecting it out, that's not what I'm interested in. I'm really interested in myself and how my narrative creates my reality.

 

And, yeah, I'm seeing that a lot lately as I'm sitting with unpicking that, and it comes across in so many ways in my life where I'll have a story about something being difficult or challenging or hard from, I think Leo's birth was probably the catalyst for me having this process, being that it was very, very hard. But I'm also, how much of that was me and my creation?

 

And I don't know the answer to that. It's a rhetorical question, but sitting in that feeling. And I think when we look at what ... We chose children and we chose the path of parenthood and the gifts are so many. So, it's interesting that we ... And I see it in entrepreneurialism and I've said it myself in running a business. It's really easy to fall into that victim space of, "Ugh! I have to do it all and I'm responsible for everything and it's very, very difficult and I'm carrying this load and-"

Mason:

I'm there right now.

Tahnee:

Yes. Well, and I've been there, too, and especially when I was running the yoga studio, which felt like a lot to hold, a lot of people ... A lot. And I think I back and I'm like, yeah, I can feel that same pattern is in me in many aspects of my life. And I don't have many answers at this stage for this, but I'm really sitting in that sense of if we are creator beings and I believe we are and we're choosing this particular lifetime and timeline, yeah, how much of it is in our control?

 

And I don't know the answer to that. I'm sitting with it, like I said, but I can feel that shift in my relating with the kids, especially as probably the last 12 months, I guess, or 14 months since Leo was born. And yeah, like I said, still have my very dysregulated times. So, don't think I'm anywhere that anyone else isn't, but yeah, just really reflecting on that. And I think that's where, I think, if you take that wider lens of, well, we did a talk at school recently with a really great teacher who was speaking about how the stage the children are in is mirroring back to yourself at that age and they're giving you the opportunity to heal. And I'm a really big fan of parenting myself and reparenting through the children.

 

And I think that's something that I started doing in my twenties, I feel like, around 25 or six, but I could be wrong. It have been a bit earlier where I had someone be like, "Stop banging on about how your parents didn't do X, Y, and Z and just learn to look after yourself and give yourself what you need." And I honestly don't feel like I've even cracked the surface of doing that until the last year as well, I think.

 

Yeah, but initiating ourselves into adulthood and initiating ourselves into taking responsibility, I think that's a really big piece of becoming a more aware or conscious parent and taking that responsibility. And so, yeah, I think that idea that if Aiya's six, we can reflect on our own six-year-old selves and what we did and didn't receive and generously offer to her those things that we felt would've been beautiful to receive as six year olds. And also what was great about our six-year-old selves, what did we love? I loved being able to wander and play with my friends and create fantasy worlds. So, giving her those opportunities, too. So, that's been a nice thing to reflect on recently and to sit in and I think we've sort of been doing that in a way anyway, but I didn't have maybe that sort of visual for it that we had from doing that little workshop.

 

And when we talk about astrology and human design, I feel like you're probably less into those things in terms of how that affects parenting. That's probably more my influence I would say. But yeah, it's interesting our house and our dynamic, and I remember literally two minutes after Aiya was born, or as soon as I had some space, I was on my phone doing a chart and being like, "Oh, my god!" And she's a Sagittarius with Aries rising and an Aquarius moon. I might be getting those back to front right now. Of course, we do it on the podcast, so my brain stops working.

 

And Leo, yeah. No, she's an Aries rising and an Aquarius moon and Leo is a Aries sun, Aries rising, and a Virgo moon and you're an Aries moon and a Scorpio rising and a Gemini sun, and I'm a Libra, Cancer, Taurus, Taurus moon, Cancer rising.

 

So I'm, there's a lot fire and a lot of air and then I'm bringing most of the earth and the water and you're bringing a bit of water, too. Leo's bringing a bit of earth, but Aiya's really fire and air and she has a lot of that. And I remember getting their kids' charts done and yeah, she loves travel, she's a great traveller, super easy, really adaptable to those circumstances and very creative, very dreamy. And I remember getting her chart done and the astrologer just pinning that. And Leo's got a lot of fire, mostly fire and has this very, she sort of said he had a lot of warrior energy. And we've been joking around, but he's his sort of turbo, bullheaded little ram that headbutts and just is very cute and very ... But even his reactions to things like we were at a kid's birthday party yesterday, balloons were popping everywhere. And he just was watching them, no crying. It was very grounded, very ugh!

 

Whereas Aiya probably would've screamed and been really upset by that. And then loud noise has always bothered her. And so, yeah, it's been interesting mapping the children's charts and putting them over ours and looking at all of that. And I won't go too deep into that because I feel like there's an astrologer who says you shouldn't share your chart with anyone because it's giving them access to your life. I do think there's an element of truth to that, but even we were talking the other day about our human design profiles, like Mason's a manifester, and Leo and I are manifesting generators and Aiya's a projector and I feel like our energies are all really like that, like projectors. Aiya so much more needs that nurturance and that care in terms of her energy, whereas Leo and I are pretty up, down, up, down. We're pretty reliable. And I feel like you are pretty true to being a manifester as well. And yeah, so it's interesting seeing all that play out as well.

 

So, again, we've looked into that a little bit and I'll continue to use those tools. I think they've really helpful because they, just again, you can become really culty with astrology and live your life by it. And I don't know if that's necessarily ... It's just another map. That's what I see it as. It's a way of making sense of what you observe in terms of different patterns and habits and when you start to get into the houses and looking at where people's placements are, you can see how things play out.

 

But yeah, really good to work with someone if you're interested and look at your children and your karma. I've worked with a lady called Michaela around our family constellation a little bit. And just in terms of how that dynamic of the family works. And, yeah, I really believe our children choose us. This is the thing around this sort of sovereignty and not being a victim. I think on a bigger spiritual journey. We choose what we come in to do. And I know that's a hard concept sometimes when people choose timelines that aren't super pleasant. But I believe there's a reason for all of this stuff that's going on in the world.

 

And yeah, so I think the sovereignty of the child and choosing what they've chosen and honouring that and trying to meet them, understand them and help them. One thing about astrology and the way I understand it is it's about our evolution. So, it's not just about like, "Oh, this is how I am and I'm going to stay this forever." It's actually about, "Well, how do I fill in the blanks? How do I see myself on this path of evolution and meet myself as I move toward what my next karmic journey is going to be like?" It's a way of illuminating what's been before and where you are and where you're going. And so, I think having that little bit of knowledge with the kids is really nice. And I also try and be really aware of not projecting stuff onto them. And Aiya has this book and she's like, "I'm a Sagittarius and I like adventures."

 

Tahnee:

Yeah. And a part of me is like, "Ugh," but it's a kid's book, so whatever.

Mason:

That's always funny. She's like, yeah, "Sagi's love adventure, right?" "Yes, I think."

Tahnee:

Yeah. So, I don't know, I think there's are lots of things. I wanted to also mention aware parenting, because I did, when I looked into that a little bit, I liked some of those ideas. And for me, the most challenging part of parenting has been holding space for the emotions and actually allowing them and not trying to shut them down and not trying to ... And like Mase said, there's times when it's like, "Look, we don't have time right now for this to be a thing, but we can talk about it and process it later in another way." But as much as possible I try and give, especially Aiya and Leo, Leo less so because his emotions are usually related to fairly straightforward needs being met. But Aiya's, yes, they can be quite big sometimes.

 

And yeah, that's been hard for me to, because I think I'm someone who tries to make everyone happy and doesn't want to ... And that was always my role, I think, was trying to find the peace. And so, I think sometimes I'm like, "Whoa, how can one person ..." I mean, I have my emotions, too, but yeah, Aiya can be a firecracker. We have lots of fire in the house. So, that's been my big challenge. But again, if I'm regulated, if I'm calm, if I can let it move over me and not take it on, then it's fine. I just sit with it and it's okay. And yeah, they tend to pass like storms and then there's blue sky, wouldn't you say?

Mason:

Mm-hmm. In terms of the emotions, I feel like that reflects in how when you've used. It's been a lot of Chinese medicine and a lot of casting the bodies and a lot of German New Medicine as well.

Tahnee:

Yeah, actually that's an interesting piece we haven't talked about with the physical care. And I feel like I've probably been looking into German New Medicine for about a year as well, probably since Leo was born, maybe a little bit before that I'd heard of it, but I wasn't really across it. And I found this nurse had compiled all of her notes on German New Medicine and she had this little note on her blog that if you wanted her references and resources, she'd send them to you. And she did. She sent me this huge 200-page PDF with all this content.

 

So, I've been chipping away at that and just trying to understand, excuse me, that system, and again, it's sort of this sense that a lot of the time, especially with children, it's these incomplete loops of something they really just couldn't deal with or couldn't process as creating this maybe a healing cycle that is unable to complete itself or something like that. And the idea in German New Medicine that disease is actually healthful and actually a part of the body's natural biological repair process. That makes so much sense to me because I'm like, "Why the hell would we have all these weird afflictions? There has to be a reason. "And so, again, I believe in an intelligent universe. I don't believe in the system breaking down.

 

And, yeah, a lot of the way in which ... And what I think is interesting is it maps really well with animals, too. And they can have this emotional impact, but then they can get stuck in healing loops as well. And so, you can see how it's not just humans with special consciousness, it's any being that's any being that's having these experiences can manifest these biological patterns and have the same brain lesions and things going on that are impacting what's manifesting.

 

And again, I'm not a doctor and I'm not using this in practise except for in our family and for myself. But every single thing I've been through health-wise, I've looked it up and I'm like, "That makes complete sense that that was what was happening." Whether it's from being bulimic all the way through to the tick incident I had when I was 10, I was in hospital, through to colds and flus and noticing patterns around them to really bad kidney infection I had when I was 18, stuff that I can link all of that to stuff that was going on in my life emotionally and psychologically that I wasn't processing and that was, or that big impacts that had happened. Big shocks or big events.

 

And that's how German New Medicine came about. The guy, Dr. Hamer, his son died in a sudden accident and he ended up with testicular cancer and he was like, "What's the relationship between these two things?" And he started to look at lesions of women who had been in hospital for breast cancer, I think it was, and maybe other female cancers like gynecological cancers. And he noticed patterns in terms of their brain lesions and what was manifesting. And again, it does really relate a lot to Taoist ideas of how we're not just physical beings, we're having this emotional experience, it's creating patterns of energy in the body and if they get stagnant or if they are really strong, they can affect matter. This frequency of energy can become form. And that, again, getting into woo-woo stuff, but that's how we become manifest in the Taoist and yogic ideas is the Prana or the Qi coalesce and the energy becomes dense and we take form.

 

So, it makes a lot of sense to me that things like a tumour or any kind of skin ailment or whatever is going to manifest from a frequency of energy that's occurring in the body. So, yeah, again, with Aiya like the example of eczema was super interesting. So, she had eczema as a baby not long after we weaned her. We thought it was related to giving her coconut milk and oat milk and stuff. And so we moved over to giving her coconut and almond milk, remember, because of all the amines and stuff, because after she was weaned, she was having a bottle with coconut milk or almond milk in the mornings. And what in German New Medicine, it's a separation conflict. So, it's about weaning, right? And we weaned her abruptly. I went overseas for three weeks. I came back and she never wanted to go back on the boob.

 

I would've let her if she'd wanted to, but she didn't. She would've had a reaction to that sudden separation. And you were there with her. She had a reaction like she was grieving. And so, that manifestation that went away fairly quickly. And then when she was a bit older, she had it come back when she was having some incidents in day care related to a girl who was, they were having kid conflicts. But again, it was about separation. It was about being rejected from the group and being pushed out. And so you can see that same thing manifesting. And it's really interesting because I was working with a homoeopath with Aiya and the homoeopath was asked to speak to her and interview her about it.

 

And Aiya said, "I was given eczema by this person." And I was like, "She knows that on a cellular ..." It can sound like a really kiddy thing to say, but I'm like, I actually think she gets what's happening. She gets that was a thing that happened. And so, I've been sitting with that with her and not trying to really fix it so much as just hear her out through that process and listen when she's feeling isolated. And anyway, she's made some really great friends now and that it's completely gone. And yes, I've used some Chinese herbs as well to help clear the Heat and stuff like that.

 

So, I'm not saying you don't treat it and I don't think that's implied in German New Medicine. I think they still treat stuff, but it's really the root of it is what's going to cause the healing to happen. It's really not about the external thing. And that to me, it's really changed my whole reality. I'm a bit like, "Whoa, why didn't we all know about this," because it's so obvious when you think about skin stuff or attacks. It tends to be something coming at us and then, depending on its location, its manifestation, and how it blah, blah, blah. You can start to look into more about that. So, yes. Well, she was having this separation conflict and not able to meet it. So, yeah, I've used it in lots of other ways, but I think mostly we use our herbs, Chinese herbs, homoeopathy.

Mason:

I kind of like the crossover there between classical Chinese medicine. I think in German New Medicine is like, "You got to get back to your constitution," because that's something ... Our old acupuncturist was like, "Well, something's going to kill you." And it's like, it's probably going to be, if you can get back into your primary constitutional organ and you can sit there for me, let's just say it would be Liver for me, but I'm in the Spleen all the time. So, psychologically, if I can't get to the bottom of what's going on within those, that Spleen realm or physically, if I can't get to the bottom of what's going on energetically and emotionally, then most likely that's when I've got a better possibility for that healing eruption to come up and to become excessive and become an excessive block.

 

That's just where I know with this kind of stuff, been looking at this for 15 years, this kind of manifestation of disease. And it's hard to get your head around when you're like, "But why is it?" But skin stuff keeps on happening and it's like, "Yeah." Well, you track back and this is where people can have spontaneous healing or people when we talk about changing your constitution, because if that is something going on within your Lung and it's got something about grief and sadness and all those kinds of things and you are doing the acupuncture to help move that Qi and you're taking the herbs to move that chi and then you're also going in and doing the meditation and doing the practise and you can get ahold of it to the extent where it moves enough where you're like, Great. That Qi is flowing now." And then generally you take a step back in towards your constitutional organ and that's often your constitutional weakness as well.

Tahnee:

Well, then, this is something ... So, a couple things you said there really dropped something in for me, but I just want to stop on that last bit. It works both ways in my understanding so far. I might be wrong, but my experience is if you start to treat the physical, there's more Qi available to work on the subtle aspects. And I think we can easily get caught in a loop mentally or it's very hard to see ourselves objectively. That's the one caveat I have with self-treatment and I treat myself all the time, so it's something I'm super aware of, but we can really miss obvious stuff. And with our children, too, I still defer to other people sometimes when I'm feeling like I'm not completely sure that I'm across everything, mostly acupuncturists or people like Cole, Osteos and stuff. But yeah, I think it's really, when you're close to something, it can be hard to be objective.

 

So, I just want to sit that there. But what you said as well about almost the invitation of being, say, if you're a Spleen deficient, normally a Liver Yang person, let's say, or Spleen excess as well, what is the shamanic aspect of that that's being invited in? What are you needing to meet in that and using that energy to shape your practise? Because that's something I think people don't do enough is actually moderate what they're practising or what they're experiencing based on what's showing up. And that's again, a very Chinese medicine and yogic lens is Ayurveda is like, "Well yeah. You have your constitution, but what's actually manifest at the moment is prakruti and vikruti in Ayurveda or where's your imbalance at the moment? So, work on that And then also how do you nourish that underlying constitution?

Mason:

And that comes up a lot in parenting when you're ... We used to have someone when we'd drop Aiya off to bush school and they'd be like, "Oh, gosh. Her separation anxiety," she's got…

Tahnee:

Yeah, like labelling.

Mason:

... a bad thing. And to be like, "Oh, God! You really got to work on that." And it's like, yes, we do have to work on it. One thing is probably you look at it through this lens, the practise and the parenting needs to adjust to what Aiya is going through. And then what we're going through and all that. It all comes up and into a neat little package.

Tahnee:

And also, I'm not sure we need to fix these things.

Mason:

No.

Tahnee:

I just had to drop Aiya somewhere today and it was a half-hour process and I've learned to schedule for it. I give myself a half-hour buffer. She was a bit shy. She held onto me for a bit then she was on her own. I just watched her and I saw her go through it. And yes, I might have a bit of an inner narrative of, "Oh, my god. This is taking forever." But the more better part of me. You want to sit in it and hold it for her. And yeah, two minutes after I left, she's fine. And I don't think labelling especially, and that's why I greatly dislike this whole ADHD culture and even, I guess kids have to go to therapy sometimes because of big stuff going on in their lives.

 

But yeah, just pathologizing children, I just find it a little bit ... They're children and so much of what they experience is our stuff anyways. I just think so much of it's turn it around and look at yourself and do your own work. And, yeah, Aiya might have some residual stuff from how she was weaned. I don't know. She might just be a kid that's sensitive to transitions, which is what I think. I think she is energetically very sensitive and that fits in with the projector part of human design. I think my son will not be like that. I think I'll put him in a group situation. He'll be like, "See ya." But Aiya is not like that. That's not how she's made. And I think that's her superpower too, because she reads the room. She's very, very tuned into what people are feeling.

 

She hates when someone's left out or she's got a really strong sense of justice and righteousness. So, those are really beautiful gifts of hers. And I think I could try and train them out of her or I could just be like, "We'll celebrate them. Those are your superpowers. That's what you're going to offer to the world one day when you're out doing your thing."

 

And yeah, I've just learned I have to be early. That's a great teaching for me. I'm terribly late most of the time. Aiya's taught me to be early. That's what I mean about the children come in to make us better, too. I think they give us gifts if we can learn from them. And I'm sure you remember we were late because Leo had literally just been born, I think it was our first time leaving the house to a school event and Aiya just shut down.

 

She just couldn't get into the whole event the whole time because we'd been late, we'd been rushing. We had created for her that sort of intensity of an experience that she couldn't soften into where she was when she got there. And to me it's like, "Well, that's just something I can do better. I can be more organised. I can be more ..." Obviously just had a baby, so I'm not beating myself up about it, but yeah, I can create more space for her. And it's similar actually. So, I've had this big epiphany this year with her. It's getting her places early and then actually her being one of the last to leave, they're her transition sweet spots.

 

So, that took me quite a while to work out. I was getting there early to pick her up thinking, "Great." But she'd lose it. She couldn't focus on her transition routine because she was like, "My mum's here, my mum's here." Whereas if I was a late parent at the pick up, she'd be completely ready, ready to go, really calm because she'd sort of been able to navigate that energy on her own. So, we're just learning all the time how we raise these little humans. But yeah, those are things that I've found have been helpful to be aware of at least.

 

Yeah. Any other things we want to talk about or-

Mason:

I think that about covers it.

Tahnee:

At least feel free. I don't know. We're just working it out as we go. So, please feel free to ask questions. And if I've glossed over something or misrepresented something, I'm really happy to have more conversation or more dialogue around this stuff. But yeah, I think the biggest thing I want to share with parents is you can't do a perfect job. You can do the job you can do.

 

And yeah. When I say, "Turn around on yourself," I'm not trying to say, "Blame yourself." I'm trying to say, "What can you do in the moment to have your own inner peace that you can be more present for your kids." I think that's the only thing really that I have found consistently works is to resource myself in a way, whether it's through audio books or I'm fortunate to come from a background of movement and nervous system regulation.

 

So, that's been very helpful to have. But if you don't do yoga or have breathing practises or whatever, yeah, there's ways to experience that to help you, but I just think you don't have what you don't have. So, go out and find those resources. And, like you were saying, with a lot of the default stuff we have culturally isn't amazing. So, maybe, yeah. Look outside your culture. I've done that a little bit and tried to expose myself to ancestral ideas and other practises from different countries and just look at does this fit into our culture? Does this work? I know places where babies go to bed at 10:00 PM. That doesn't work for me. My kid goes to bed at 6:00 PM because I like to spend two hours with my husband before I go to sleep. But it's not wrong if they go to bed at 10:00 PM. You're not doing a bad job. You're just on a different schedule. Roll with it. So, I think that's something we can get really bogged down in and just whatever flows and works for you, I think is what you have to do. So, yeah.

Mason:

Inspiring.

Tahnee:

Gross.

Mason:

Thanks, guys.

Tahnee:

Thank you. Uncomfortable thing to talk about, parenting.

Mason:

Yeah. Anyway, we don't prep up with these. These are always just nice little, well, reflection and then I'm sure I'm getting a lot ... I'm like, "Yeah, okay." Family meetings was something that was good. We have really kept up. But nonetheless, something we do talk about is family visioning and just knowing, getting comfortable was probably hard. And our individualistic culture been like, "You're going to change. Your life is going to change dramatically." But it's funny how you can hit a sweet spot, that hero's journey, which I'll always talk about, hook the movie, but that hero's journey, you're always going to have to grow up and you're going to have to grow up and you're going to have to forget and you're going to have to be responsible, but you can accept that really quickly and loop around. And then you reengage with the visioning again and the vision.

 

Yeah, the plan's going to change, but that's the part of it. The important thing wasn't what you wanted your life to look like exactly when you were prior to children. It's the fact that you had the capacity to manifest a life. And so, then when you get a family emerging and you get the kids starting to go like, "Oh, I want this." And you go, "Do you still want that? Is it still ..."

 

I think the farm thing is I'm accepting. I'm like, "Right. Aiya might really want that and really want that life and want lots of animals and that's going to dramatically impact my life." So, I start engaging with the visioning of that and see whether my vision and hers start to align and whether that feels good for her and could feel good for us. And then we go, "Okay, well then we're going to have to make smarter decisions around." That's the kind of thing. I said gamified before and I started. It isn't gamify, but it's just engage in the animation.

Tahnee:

Yeah. In play. Yeah. I think that's what you're talking about, in that sort of sense of exploration and challenge. And I don't know. I like the analogy of a game. I'm not against games like some people are, but yeah.

Mason:

I think that's a good thing to do as well. I think we do consistently. But yeah, thanks for coming along for these chats. They're always enlightening for us.

Tahnee:

Yeah. If you've made it this far, you deserve a Jing.

Mason:

Yeah, you deserve a Jing.

Tahnee:

Well done.

Mason:

Sign up for the newsletter and get 11% off as a treat from us. Get yourself some Jing. All right. See you, guys.

Tahnee:

You'll thank us later.

Mason:

Yeah. See you.

Tahnee:

Bye.