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Right, weโre kicking off this new series on the Three Treasures - Jing, Qi, and Shen - and Iโve brought in an absolute legend to help us navigate this. Benny is a fixture around here, living just a stoneโs throw from the studio, and heโs the perfect guide for this series. He comes from a hardcore performance background - sports, movement, the works - but heโs spent years deep in the trenches of neurosomatic movement and nervous system work, which makes him the perfect bridge between high-level performance and ancient Taoist principles.
Weโre starting with Jing, but forget the dusty, abstract textbook definitions. Bennyโs all about the "slow melt." Heโs here to talk about why weโve all been drifting out of alignment and calling it "normal." Weโve basically turned the health space into another arena of performance where weโre constantly searching for the next "optimal" diet or training style to fix us, while our nervous system - the canary in the coal mine - is trying to whisper that weโre burning the candle at both ends. Weโre overriding fatigue, pushing through tension, and treating our body like a project rather than a relationship.
Bennyโs work is all about coming back home to the body. He challenges us to stop treating stillness as just another "de-stress" ritual to check off a packed calendar. Instead, he reframes cultivation as gardening: itโs about pulling the weeds - those unresolved tensions and habits - so you can actually grow something. Itโs not about adding more; itโs about clearing space.
We dig into why weโre so good at ignoring those early signals, and how to stop treating your body like a problem to solve. Itโs an eye-opening conversation on remembering whatโs already there - protecting your base, honoring the whispers, and building a life that doesnโt drain you dry. Itโs not easy, but it is real. Letโs get to it.
Benny & Mason discuss:
- Why theย Three Treasuresย offer a different way of understanding health
- Cultivation as a lifelong relationship, not another wellness practice
- Coming home to your body instead of outsourcing your health
- Why stillness is essential for self-awareness
- The body as a relationship, not a problem to solve
- Learning to listen before trying to fix
- Protecting your essence in a world that constantly drains it
- How identity, conditioning, and performance disconnect us from ourselves
- Authenticity as the foundation of genuine health
- Preparing the ground for the journey throughย Jing, Qi, and Shen
Resource guide
Websites / Platforms
movementmonk.xyz - Benny's website
Courses / Programs
The Body Trust Experience - a new offering Benny's launching to help establish the foundations of this work
Explore Our Transformative Program
Onboarding/intro courses
Practice Material
ย
(EP#56) Embodied Movement with the Movement Monk Benny Fergusson
Connect With Us
SuperFeast Instagram
SuperFeast Facebook
SuperFeast TikTok
Check Out The Transcript Below:
Mason:
If you've been around SuperFeast for any time, like often you get like two or three appearances and you're a friend of the show, Benny's best friend of the show. And now you live a stone throw away from the podcast studio. Yeah. So you are, you're in. So as soon as I knew that I was like, right. Series time. We talk a lot about the treasures here at SuperFeast. The point of that is to take you away from always having a mental focus on things within your health that you're going to have to focus on, you know, which have short bursts. But when we're talking about true longevity and then being fruitful in life, whether it's physical, energetic or spiritual, there's other elements. And so. The neurosomatic movement, nervous system work that Benny brings comes from the same framework of Jing, Qi and Shen of treasure.
It's been a step away from focusing on the things which are good for a point in time and then step back to the concepts. And the Tao gives us those concepts, right? Well, there's three concepts that you can layer on top of all the infinite things just to help you have some kind of relationship that you can build for decades. So thanks, Benny. Come in for a nice little series. We'll cover Jing, Qi and Shen and take it a little bit well rounded outside of herbs and what they can, what people can do if they've got an affinity for a particular treasure and fortifying it.
Benny:
It's good to be here.
Mason:
What are you up to at the moment in particular with your work?
Benny:
Well, the premise really that I continue to focus on is coming back home to the body. It's just so many of us who are being pulled out of it. I think today, like I did a bit of a search on burnout and like rates of burnout are going up like ridiculous percentage. And particularly in the area of health, like I come from like a performance background, sports, all of that sort of stuff. So it's all like putting out and it's a great way to break yourself. And so I kind of have started to notice that even in the area of health, there's this performance of health and it's draining our essence.
Mason:
We're going to go through a series of episodes. We're going to cover Jing. Then we're going to cover Qi. Then we're going to cover Shen. Then we're going to kind of move more into Yin Yang for the fourth. And if all of you want more, we'll do more. And that's going to be covered in what you might have heard me call Ming Gong and Xing Gong. Ming, vitality, general health, Xing. Consciousness. Consciousness.
Benny:
Nature.
Mason:
Yeah.
Benny:
Your essential nature.
Mason:
Yeah. It takes us that those steps back. You go the 10,000 in the Dow, everything, everything. And that's where it gets performative because the thing that I'm focused on is better than your thing. And your thing is shit. And actually I was into my thing and I bagged out your thing, but now I see the relevance of your thing. I'm going to switch alliances from my thing. And now my identity is going to be thinking over here. with you and it's all about meat, baby. Or now it's actually about veganism or whatever it is. The movement world, you get it from the movement world, right? The oscillation.
Benny:
Yeah. All the things is like when you go into anything, I think we're trying to attach, what does this mean for me? What's my story and connection with this thing, but it's still largely, well, someone said that this thing was good. And then I try to then, impose that upon myself, no matter what it is, but it's not your thing. And I think that like, when we're talking about all of these things, like when you're talking about Jing, Qi and Shen, like today, as we're talking about Jing, like you're coming back to the essence of you, like what is your thing? And I think that clears the noise because you have to then start to listen. You have to start to come back. And like, one thing that I love about Superface with the herbs is that It's not just like a supplement, take this, fix that type thing. You're establishing a relationship with an essence. And this is how I see the body as well.
Like, because I looked at this a long time ago, you can take 10 people and they can do the same exercise and they'll all have a completely different experience of that exercise. Oh, this one hurt my knees or this one hurt my back. This one was like, awesome. It made me like super strong. And let me build a cause around it. Yeah. And then that person is like, yeah, like squats, uh, God, like deadlifts, probably the best example is life, you know, like all that sort of thing. And then we developed this measure. And at what point do we lose ourself to that? And I think in years of exploring Tai Chi, you know, Tai Chi world is a fascinating world that has a lot of division in it. And I'm going off in tangents, but probably we'll fill all of these things, but where you can focus on the perfect form. And well, this lineage said that, you know, you've got to hold your finger four degrees east.
And if you're not doing it, all of these things are just pointing to that taking you away from, I think the point of any practice, any cultivation, which is to bring you back to your essence. And I think you need to know it in order to cultivate it.
Mason:
Before I try and get focused, because I'm the worst type of host of a podcast, because I'm the one meant to be focusing on Jing right now and I always get to it. But there's a distinction there I think is interesting. So you've had teachers and I think it's something that's well established that you can go cowboy and that's really cool. But at some point. it's nice to go deep diving with a teacher who holds some type of essence, which is really like a little diamond. And perhaps they will transfer whatever that diamond is over to you. But then when you have the awareness that say 10 degrees here and the fingers pointing East, and you know that, you know, like what is the actual relevance of that? And your mind starts coming in yet the teacher is just like, just trust me, that's a part of the lineage. And there's a part of you that wants to be, you know, nah, I'm better than that.
But, you know, you can see that they've embodied something despite the fact that you don't want to lose yourself into just rules and things and become ensconced. But you also want to respect the lineage. Do you have a little approach or advice for that?
Benny:
Yeah, I've been through with different teachers, different experiences, different camps of experience. I see we've got like the traditional model of teaching. If we look way back to become a disciple of a teacher is an incredible investment, both for the student and the teacher, like in order to really dive into particularly Taoist arts and all of those, any path of cultivation, you have to give your whole self to it. And these days, that's a difficult thing. We've got so many things going on in the world. It's different context. But traditionally, a teacher might give a student one thing to focus on for a whole year.
Mason:
or even might haze them for like five years.
Benny:
Totally. And it's not even the thing, but it's just like, do this thing. So I know that you're prepared to be able to go where you need to go.
Mason:
Like paint the fence, Daniel.
Benny:
It's just wax on wax off. Like it's just, and I think this is where a lot of the things get really confused of like, Oh, but this thing is the thing, but it was like the gateway to really connect back with the essence of where it is that you're going. And that's not something that you can read all the texts and all that sort of stuff. And you can develop a mental interpretation, but without the embodiment of it. It's kind of like it has nowhere to land.
Mason:
I will layer in Jing here because it is the most relevant foundational conversation around external identification or an appropriate amount of I'm going to externally give my time to this, but the identity stays morphing consistently within. And it's probably the place where you can see Jing, and sorry if you don't know what Jing is, but we'll get there and I'll ask Benny to explain it. But when it comes to the foundational essence of the treasure of Jing, it is that excessive external identification is the other side of just complete flabbiness and disengagement with your own self, of finding the thing, finding the identity, finding dogma, finding rigidity, and then not being able to maneuver based on your biology or your somatic needs or your nervous system needs. And then that eventually leaks the jing within itself.
And so I think I just wanted to weave in that that's like the relevance of this conversation here.
Benny:
Yeah, I think, yeah, maybe we dive into each of those elements because there's a bit to unpack with that. But like, maybe just as we go into it, I'll share kind of just my interpretations of Jing. As we're having a conversation about Jing and Shi and Shen, they're all the same thing at different levels of density, I sort of see, of like, consider the Jing as like a block of ice. In a way, it's probably not like the most. No, it's really nice. Constitutional.
Mason:
Well, the TCM practitioners are like, Oh, I can't listen to this. Even if it's cold, just listening to this, I can't allow any cold in there.
Benny:
He had an ice matcha. Looking at it, you've got ice, you've got this base substance.
Mason:
Nice plug of matcha, by the way. I don't think by the time this comes out, we probably would have launched our tremella matcha. So like, boom. That was not even scripted. He's bloody good.
Benny:
You've got this substance without that, like it's the base form of things. We could look at that, the base form of the body, the potential for something. If you've got a bigger block of ice, well then you've got more potential for water. So,
Mason:
That's actually, I like that analogy because people, when you think about Jing and using Jing, if you take your block of ice out into the world, which you inevitably have to do, it's going to start melting. And as you go along in life, you need to not prematurely melt that block. So you're left with nothing. So then you've got to slosh your watery self around. And people often say to me, you know, can I build back that Jing or I was given a weak constitution or I manifested it or I chose it, whatever level of whatever. And to build jing, to slowly have an excess of chi water and allow that to dribble over the ice and build back that block takes such hectic consistency and such patience that you can, but most people don't have the ability to build back that post-heavenly jing.
Benny:
Yeah, well, it's sort of like we unbalance our own equation in life of like we're continuing to extract from that. Like I've been in this like, I think when you love what you do, and when you dedicate yourself, it's also a bit of a slippery edge slope of you can burn yourself out.
Mason:
Because you need to go like, oh my God, I need a bit more fuel. The fuel happens to be a little bit of a block of ice at this point. I'm going to just chip a little bit extra off.
Benny:
Yeah.
Mason:
I need a Negroni.
Benny:
And you pull from that essence and then you've kind of got nothing left. So like if we just circle back to we've got this essence. This is the jing. We can obviously talk more about it. But then as that starts to melt, we've got water. This substance that comes from it, it's mobile, it's fluid, that's moving through the body. And then when you apply heat, which is, this is how I see cultivation, then you start to get steam. But that... And the water is the chi? Yeah. And the shen is the vapor? But in order to do that, a lot of the time, imagine you're trying to boil a pot of water, but you're always taking it off the pot. It never reaches that point of critical mass. So you never change that base substance into something else, into a higher form. So in any form of cultivation practice, this is what I see is happening continually.
So you kind of, you're building up enough, then that steam, then you've got all this steam in the room. So then that reaches a point of critical mass and then it comes back into essence. And it's this circular process. This is at least how I experienced. A toroidal field? Yeah. You could say that. Like it's turning back in on itself, but we need a catalyst and we need fuel. For that process, we need to.
Mason:
Can you frame cultivation? Like, you know, maybe students and mums and dads and executives listening. And it might not be like within the framework of like I'm practicing specific for cultivation. But the beautiful thing about our world today is cultivations. either happening or not happening just based on the way you're living. So just in terms of the framework of what you mean by cultivation there.
Benny:
Yeah. Consider it like a garden. I'm going to use lots of analogy. Like the way I see the body is we can be a bit of a gardener. Like, what is it that I want to grow? Do I have a bunch of weeds in my body that are pulling away all of the essence? I want to first remove those weeds. What is that weed? That weed could be a behavioural attribute. That could be like I was talking before, like overworking or like.
Mason:
It could be actually like be like a bung knee or excessive tension in the hips. Totally. Liver toxicity and.
Benny:
All of those things. Yeah. Like trauma that the body is holding. Like all of these things are essentially things that require energy to exist, that pull from our essence. So if that's all, and I think we all inherit that to some degree, and in some way that puts us on this path. of discovery of like, well, what is that? You know, you come from this essence and you're a little baby and then you go through the adult world and you become conditioned in different ways by your caregivers and all these things. And then there's all these things that are being reflected in your body that then lead to our behaviors and how we interact with life and all of that sort of stuff. So process of cultivation, if we take it out of like, having to be like a strict Taoist lineage form of cultivation, I think first starts in discovering what's here, who you are and how you navigate that.
And I think that there's just two aspects of it. There's stillness and there's movement. just really simply. And without one, each of the other is empty, essentially. Like what's life like if we're continuing to move and push and strive and go and achieve and succeed and out, out, out and yang, yang, yang and all of that sort of stuff. Like I've also fallen into the pit of the other side. What's life when we come back and we just look at our navels and we just go within and just disappear into the nothingness and completely lose connection with, like, we have this body, we're in this physical reality.
Mason:
Or even, like, just stop and get depressed and do nothing and... Totally. Like, do little, you know, yeah, right.
Benny:
Yeah, like there's a dark side of each of these things and we're learning better. For the large majority of people, we're devoid of stillness. And that's where the Jing is actually cultivated. It's in stillness in my experiences. It's not being like a statue, no life, but it is this point where in stillness, then we recognize movement. And this is the chi and on and on, we can go with that.
Mason:
So if someone is recognizing, like we always start with Jing, whether it's Jing herbs, and then we'll go like, right, you know, the extracurricular here is you're gonna have to reflect on your lifestyle design or whether in very practical terms and come back to cultivation, it's like practical creation of a lifestyle that's sustainable so that you're not broken as a body when you get to old age, like the way we try and make it really hyper-practical. So if someone is like identifying that Jing is something which we all need to do is we need to always tend to the garden, the foundations of the garden, the soil and the root crop of the garden, starting from there. If there is a serious concern, though, that someone is like, I don't need to just tend to this. This is like alarm bells ringing and there's canary in the coal mines of, you know, things deteriorating. How are you going about it?
And we talk about the analogy of the boat. You know, you know, you've got the boat's got to arrive smoothly to shore of your old age. so that your consciousness can be carried and be intact. But if you think that the hull's going to break away and you're going to run out of fuel by the time you get to 65. So, if that resonates, how are you starting to approach from your side of work to help someone get in touch with that jing? And maybe it's just getting in touch with understanding what it is so they can actually know what they're protecting and cultivating. Yeah. How do you go about it?
Benny:
Yeah. I look at this through, I got into just being interested in working with the nervous system because it kept showing up for so many people. Like here we've got this incredible system that is like a very powerful reflector of what's happening for us. And so a lot of, you know, when the alarm bells go off, I see it like the nervous system is that canary in the coal mine. The first problem that we tend to face is that we might ignore the canary.
Mason:
How do you see people ignoring it? Because that's the other canary that I'm good at ignoring. But if someone points out the exact pattern or type of habit that is used to ignore, that's when I wake up.
Benny:
Yeah. Think about it like this, like, because what I hear here is we're kind of talking about things that may have become chronic, that have built up over time and reached a point of critical mass where then those alarm bells are going off. Now, This is, the body has been communicating, you know, that canary was given little tweets for time, little whispers, it's giving little indications, but we're just like, no, no, no, we gotta keep going, we gotta keep digging this mine, you know, in this analogy. So first, like there is levels of non-listening that have taken place for so many people. And this isn't a dig. at that, because the way I sort of see it is like, what happens, happens. Like, if we didn't listen, we didn't listen, like it wasn't important at the time, or it was a necessity that we listened to something else.
But as it shows up as a symptom, and if that symptom then becomes critical, Often then what we do is attack the symptom. We try to solve the symptom. A good analogy of this is an ointment, for example. Your skin gives you a symptom and says, hey, there's something critical going on. It gives you a rash. And so then we cover it up with some sort of cream or, you know, anti-inflamm or whatever it is to cover up that symptom and the symptom goes away, but it's giving us a signal. So the way I look at it first is we need to learn to listen to the nature of that signal and continue to track it as to like, where is that actually coming from? The problem that we get stuck in is first, and this comes back to a cultivation process, is reaction. We're not able to even connect with what is happening.
And the way I see working with the body is it's not a problem to solve, it's a relationship that we're having. And when the nervous system is dysregulated, it's a sign of an imbalance in that relationship. So there's obviously many factors to this, and I'm not trying to explain disease, but I'm also bringing the reverence back to the intelligence of the body. And that's not something to fix. That's something that we actually need to relate with and listen to.
Mason:
Well, that kind of demystifies cultivation and, you know, let me know if I'm not using the right words, but you have enough experience with yourself that you can actually make like an educated decision because you've got like a proper sense of what your body's trying to tell you rather than, because I imagine you would be like seeing patients or we talk about it a lot, but we try and be respectful. We'll be like, obviously you shouldn't be working there. And obviously you'd need to move out of the city or you need to not be in that relationship anymore. But. that's not one, it's not our job to say that. And two, if you go and shoot off and make that decision, which is what you kind of see in big cathartic personal development circles is you rev up to the point where you can see that that decision is wrong.
And then you go make that big external lifestyle decision and make it more sustainable. And then you do it. And then sometimes it works if you have enough of that cultivation of understanding yourself, But a lot of the time you just go and recreate those patterns elsewhere because you haven't gone into the stillness and you aren't in touch with that nervous system to make an educated decision and choice about where you're going externally.
Benny:
Yeah. Yeah. It's like you take your home with you wherever you go and and you continue to create. It's like when you work with people long enough, you inevitably bump into all these. I have all these problems. but it's everything else outside of me. It's pointing to this and that and all the other things. But what was the constant? The constant was you. And I say that not in a way, because I've been through this in my own way with scoliosis. Like here you are in the presence of a condition that doctors say is incurable. And I feel like a complete crazy person because there's no reinforcing evidence that anything can change. So I'm like, well, it's my body's problem. It's the doctor's fault. Cause they gave me this diagnosis or. Well, they haven't figured it out yet. Yeah. Yeah. Like what? Like I'm really just about like I was on my parents.
Mason:
There's bloody trillionaires in the world and they can't figure out scoliosis.
Benny:
Yeah. Like I'm pointing fingers, all of these things, but that's not going to get me anywhere. Like whether or not I can. And by the way, like it is curable. I've seen it change. like many times in different degrees. Everyone's journey is personal with it, but change can happen.
Mason:
And that would be across the line of like, whatever it is, that is the risk of your. early onset deterioration. And obviously, you know, catch it earlier, catch it later, take responsibility. It's not going to work perfectly, but it's like whether it's autoimmunity, whether it's genetic issues, whether it's something structural like scoliosis, you're saying, you know, so that's like there's validity in the movement of going and treating it in the movement. But then you're talking about going into the stillness aspect of the practice and cultivation with it.
Benny:
Yeah, I think this is what interested me in Taoist practices in general. It's the practice of change. Really, like there's a fundamental nature, but when things show up in the body, they appear fixed. You know, we have all these wonderful diagnostics today, but what does it do? Like that affixes something, then I have this thing, then that affixes to the identity. And then I can't change. Nothing can change. It's sort of like we started off thinking that genetics were this set thing that I just inherited. And then we discovered neuroplasticity. Like we discovered that genetics are continuing to change and evolve and switch on and switch off. Like there is this process of change happening within us all the time. And I think that's where stillness is important because first you start to witness that fundamental process of change taking place.
And this is part of why I love working with the body because you get to be at the driver's seat with that. You realize that, okay, what is happening within me? What is that connected to? How am I involved in that process? What choices am I making? And these are big questions. Like, they will shine the mirror up and you won't always like what you see.
Mason:
Why do you think That is like, because there's the exact same problem I've had experiences where I don't like it, maybe because it's shown that it's going to be difficult to change the circumstances or I'm addicted to a thing. And other times I do like it. And so is there, I can see that when I start to do like it, I've done a smidge of stillness and then come back out then a tiny bit. And so there's like pre-work. You know? And so do you, is that a part of your process when you're working with people is just to kind of shift the environment a little bit, a little bit, a little bit until that reflection is something that is like, all right, I was heavily, overly identified with that. And I'm going to be able to meet it internally and do that shift. But I know that's going to change the way that my relationships are with my job or the way my habits are every day.
I'm going to let go of that story, or I'm going to get a handle on that story. And I'm going to have to become. something that I thought I'd never would, or, you know, like, how does that work?
Benny:
Yeah. Yeah. Like all this stuff, like intersects with such a core level of our being. And from a neurosomatic perspective, like what we're talking about here is titration. So let me talk to that a little bit more because I work with a lot of trauma, how it is held in people's bodies, in the somatic experience of the body. So let's say we then go, Oh, you've got this thing. That was a very valid thing. That was a symptom of overwhelm in some way, shape, or form. It's something that you had to hold on to from a time where there was too much or too soon or too fast of something. And then we go in and try to do something about it, get rid of it, change it like that. What that does is causes re-traumatization. And you see this a lot in a lot of healing things.
Like we go into, maybe we do like a big breathwork ceremony or something and everything is brought up, but we struggle to integrate it because we can't go through a process of change and stabilize it in a new identity, because an identity was formed around that experience. So with titration, we're learning to, like what you're saying before, touch it. Okay, this is, I'm starting to feel and see what's there and come out. What's happening is you're building capacity to process that experience that's taking place, that's held within you. Because we develop these protective parts that the way I see this, so many analogies that are coming today, is when we're dealing with anything that is held in the body, like protective patterning, trauma, that then can lead to all different forms of disease and all of that stuff.
It's like you're holding on to a cliff, but you don't know where the bottom is. So you're there and you're hanging on the cliff. The ground might be just six inches under your feet, but you've been holding on so long, diverting all of your energy just to survive. just to hold on to the edge of that cliff. And then change asks you to let go. It says, you don't need to hold on. But that part of you will say, no, I had to hold on this, this and this reason. And if I do, then what do I have left? That protection. And this is where it shows up in the nervous system through dysregulation and all sorts of different symptoms that comes up. Trying to take that away is like trying to take a warrior's shield away from them when all they know is that protection.
Mason:
It's an interesting thing because it's very easy to be like, just let go, but it's not a choice. So how do you contextualize it? Like, cause I can see, bring it back to the Jing and the block of ice. Like if you stay here, it's heating up and you've got to move, you've got to keep on moving into a different era of your life where it's cool up, you know, there's a fridge over here. You're staying over here. Why are you in a kiln? Get out of the kiln. But like I said, they say that's like my bad analogy around it, but you know, it's like, Oh my God, if you would just like go like, and I've, I've had that in as an exacerbation as you know, for healers or practitioners, but the fact that it's just impossible, it's impossible for that person to actually. do it. Yeah. How do you work with that?
Benny:
Yeah. So this is like back to titration. First, we become aware of how something is showing up and we start to gradually touch it. You know, this is why I like working with the body again, because Therapy will say, okay, what do you think about that? Or what's your narrative around that? What's your understanding around that perspective? And maybe we might try to reframe it. Oh, you know, you're a meaningful person or you have worth or all that. It's like, oh, that sounds great. But what?
Mason:
Your dad didn't mean it. He actually loved you. And that was his way of showing it.
Benny:
Yeah. You're like, yeah, but like, F that. That's bullshit. And that's part of the protection. So then when we come back to the body, that shows up in some way, shape or form, an experience of it may show up as what do I notice as that comes up, as I have this symptom or as I go through that experience where I'm just like, I know what I'm doing, but I just feel victim to to that experience. Like, I can't change. So the body reveals it all. So then we look at, well, how does that show up? Like what's actually happening in your body? What do you notice? Oh, I notice tension in my throat. I notice pain in my chest. I notice some places I can't feel. All of those things are reflecting something back to us.
It's a bit of an uncovering process where first you're developing safety to be here and present in the place that you live rather than, because what trauma does, and I don't know if we want to go further on trauma, but we've kind of ended up here. It creates disconnection. Right? So circling back to Jing, how can we cultivate anything of essence when we're disconnected to it? It's like, how can you light the lamp when it's not plugged into the PowerPoint? You know, how can you grow a plant when its roots have been ripped from the ground? First, we have to recognize, not judge, not diagnose any of that, but recognize what is actually here, what is happening, so then we can start to regain our ability to choose our circumstances. Because we then may make different choices. But that may start actually with suffering. It may start with pain. because you become aware of where you are.
If you're in that relationship and you know that it's just not good for you, but you keep going back because that's how you were programmed. That's how you learned to relate at a fundamental level and you keep diving back in. That feels safer. Yeah.
Mason:
I'm more familiar getting plugged in and getting the roots back in the ground.
Benny:
Yeah.
Mason:
Cause it's like, all right, you can either reconnect the roots. And of course you're still going to go on functioning as a human and you're going to have your consciousness. I mean, sometimes it's hard to also not guilt or not create this better than kind of thing where it's like, You can go get spinal corrective surgery, or you can go on hormonal replacement therapy, or you can go on immune suppressants. And of course, there's times when it's like, yeah, you've gone too far. Symptomatically, you can't operate. So we need to intervene externally. And that can be with herbs as well as with pharmaceuticals or surgery.
Benny:
Yeah.
Mason:
But like without creating like you should do this instead of that. At the same time, being respectful for everyone listening and being like, if you do give up from at least reconnecting to the point where you've got it and then you can go and get intervention for what has become. too far gone. Yeah. But you've got your connection and you know where it came from and you know why that's there for your spine or your knee or your hormones or your nervous system or whatever, before you get that intervention or alongside it. How do you kind of be like, if you don't do this, you won't have that. And that's okay. You'll still have a human experience, but you will be missing that connection and you'll always be cycling through that pattern.
Benny:
Yeah, what we ultimately come back to is still relationship, whether we go down the path of any sort of intervention. You know, it's like I've worked with a lot of like hip replacements, for example. You know, I'm not going to come in when like the hip is completely like my dad had a half hip replacement and his body is. gotten stuck in such a way that he's no longer getting blood flow to his hip. He's getting necrosis, like part of his hip is not getting life anymore, so it's dying. So he needs that surgery. Like he's gotten past the point of no return, but still when he gets that surgery, he's still got a fundamental relationship with his hip that needs to be established. That was not established for an extended period of time. So he still needs to come back to it. It's still ultimately going to be the same thing, whether we have
Mason:
So he's coming back to it no matter what the relationship is going to be. The relationship can either be worked on and improved or it can be left as what it is.
Benny:
Yeah. And just talking to what you were saying before, like improvement is a slippery edge slope.
Mason:
Well, when you're a biohacker like me, you're looking for perfection and immortality.
Benny:
But the way I sort of see it as, because when we're talking about Jing, I think that we're actually talking about remembrance, like remembrance of the essence that is there. And that's not something that needs to be improved. You've got everything that you need. You just forgot.
Mason:
And then if you would take that into like, not that we need to make this biomechanical or like, it's not a thing, but if quantifying remembrance of what, if there is a mind that's like, well, where's the remembrance coming from? Yeah. You know, you're a practical person.
Benny:
I'm sure you've thought about it. Yeah. I'm super practical. And that's a good question because What is it that we're remembering? So then you come back to the body and you notice you've got this thing. It's giving you all of these experiences like we're talking about earlier. You can very easily get caught in the 10,000. You know, it's like, oh, it's there's these pains and aches and tension and indigestion and all of these things. And I feel anxious and all of that stuff, all of those things. symptomatic. They're reflecting something. The way I sort of see it is if we can see our body, when I work with people, I sometimes get them to do this exercise where you write down what are all the things that your mind says about an experience. Oh, my mind says this and that and all these things. And then what does your body say? My body says, well, my mind's been neglecting it.
Mason:
How do they do that instantly? Or do you get them to go through? I've got like a little series of questions.
Benny:
Like there's three pieces of paper. I ask questions. And so it's like, what are you noticing in your mind at the moment? Oh, my mind's stressed or my mind's agitated or my mind's calm or whatever it is. Right. When I'm working with people, often we're working with when there's been challenges. You know, when we've gone through many different things, maybe we've been like trying to take care of ourself for a long time, but nothing's really worked because we've been doing it in a way that has been disconnected. And so we've been trying to, I think this is an Australian thing of the saying of like, you can polish a turd, but you still got a turd, you know? And that's not to call anyone a turd, but you know, it's like, We've got to see what we've got. So then the mind says all these things. What I'm pointing to at the moment is a fundamental relationship that we're remembering.
Because we experience so commonly that our mind and our body are separate things. It creates this division, so then my mind has to do this thing to or for my body, and my body's doing this thing against my mind. what we often discover is the body is this kind of innocent thing that's there. It didn't mean to give us pain. It didn't mean to give us all these problems and symptoms and all of these things. It's doing the best it can with what it's got. I actually watched, uh, have you seen the new Rick and Morty? No. So Rick and Morty, there's this episode where Rick, he loses his head in his portal. He's talking to Morty and the portal closes and his head's in one place and his body's in the other place. And because he's a scientist, his head is able to survive. It's got this life support system and his body has this life support system.
And then you start to see Rick's going about, they're trying to bring the head and the body back together. But what you see very clearly is there's two different beings here, like different entities that are there. And Summer is with the body, you know, one of the girls on the show. Forgive me if anyone hasn't seen the show. This might sound really random. Rick is, he's a bit of an obnoxious, like he's super smart to the point of like, just going, Oh, just everything's kind of dumb. Like you can just make anything and life is just kind of meaningless, but infinite at the same time. But his body is all heart. So summer, his granddaughter has never experienced this part of Rick and the body's like giving her a hug. And there's this connection. It's like, Oh my goodness. Like I always wanted to have a grandfather who loved me, you know, because his head's not driving the show. Right.
It's his body. And then the other side, Morty, is relating with the head. And what I'm pointing to here is that we have this relationship and we don't often realize that we're in this relationship. We are here in this vehicle that's creating a physical experience. a learning experience of life. It's continuing to give us feedback and showing us our fundamental nature. but we get pulled into the sensory experience and the mental experience. Spiritual even? Yeah, but it can all be felt as very separate. And so then in the middle, what we experience, and I'm saying from my own experiences with this, is like, it's a bit of a battle where I have to try and kind of negotiate to find peace. But when we start to listen, when we come back, and this is why I'm an advocate of any practices that involve some form of stillness, we come back and we learn to listen.
We look at what's here, like, what are you showing me, body? How then am I interacting with that? Because that is me.
Mason:
When you say stillness, because I straight away, I'm like, oh, there's so much stillness out there. But I would think that there's like stillness that's driven by a mental agenda. And then there's stillness practices that are more like an abyss with an intent for comprehension. And whether that comprehension is listening to the body or to original essence of the universe, it doesn't matter. Say like in terms of Ming Gong listening to the body, Xing Gong listening to the original pulse of the universe. It's listening and doesn't. And so therefore it's dynamic. So there's not like a. I enter my de-stressing stillness practice and I say the words and I say my mantra. I come back to my breath and I just breathe and I just remain in stillness. And then I come out of it and I'm like de-stressed and it's like all awesome. Yeah.
But I kind of can sense there's a bit of a difference to what you're talking about.
Benny:
There is all of that. Like if we look at three levels of experience, we've got our being, we've got what we do and the experiences that we have. that tend to result from that. So you can sort of see it as a bit of an iceberg. All of that, these are all byproducts of doing. You can't do stillness. This is the thing. I sort of see it as you are that. Like it's a fundamental aspect of who and what you are. You're also a bunch of other things, but it's like the, if we go back to like kind of fundamental universal nature things, which is a big topic. And I don't think that we can put words to it. It's really something that is there to be observed. And I think this is where any form of stillness or contemplative practice will gradually take you deeper into layers of the fundamental nature of things. But you can't do your way there. It's like meditation or stillness is not an act of doing.
It's not defined by, I sit on my cushion and I put my binaural beats on, no offense to anyone who does this because I've been there too, to then de-stress. That's not meditation. That's not stillness. The truth that you may face is when you start to become still, you feel anxious, you feel restless, you feel all of the things that you've been holding and you become aware of it. That's not something to get rid of. That's something to like. to discover. Where does that come from? What is the nature of that? Why have I been redlining myself to the point of complete anxiety and exhaustion and then continuing to avoid my fundamental nature?
Mason:
So it sounds like when you're in stillness, and I relate to this in my stillness practice as well, that there's this other muscle that has been worked within that space that could be the comprehension, the willingness to not hold, but just, you know, it's not letting the anxiety go, but there's a looking at, I mean, like, I know when I'm cultivating, one of the things my teacher says is like, now you just got to sift through the sand for the gold or you need to listen. So I'm there and I'm active. And if I actually get active in my mind, I get out of the stillness. And then when I'm still and I can be active in my listening, it's a very different dimension that I'm in. Is that kind of close to like what you would describe as that like active stillness or whatever? I don't know how you'd put it. Yeah.
Benny:
Well, the way I sort of see it is there's a causation chain. that tends to be happening here that I notice. So there is our objective, whatever it is that we're observing, there is the observation. So if we're talking about the body, we're talking about anything, what is my fundamental perception of what it is that I'm observing? That's interesting because then when you start to see that, you're then seeing that fundamental relationship that we're talking about. But there is a layer beyond that. What is watching all of that? When you really look at it, there's this observer that's not subject to all of these conditioned ways of perceiving something, of anything. So if I look at my body and I might see it as ugly or like I want it to be this way or that way or whatever, that's showing the relationship in the way that I'm observing it, right?
So when I was first observing my scoliosis, I observed it as a problem, a problem to fix. And then that creates a causation chain that then shows me what I'm doing. It says, you're observing a problem and you're trying to fix it. And so then your body then gives you more problems to fix. Essentially. Because I am someone.
Mason:
What's the evolution of the observation? What does that turn into?
Benny:
It's the observer that's watching all of that.
Mason:
In terms of observation creates the resolution?
Benny:
Yeah. This is going to be slippery for the mind to hear. So what we're talking about is like the fundamental nature of attachment, of like what it is that we see and experience. So if we take a step back, so there is an object of observation. So I'm observing my body. then there is what is observed, the interpretation of that object. Most of us get stuck there. We experience it in a separate way. So I am separate from that experience. I'll give shame as an example, right? If I observe anything through the lens of shame, then it says that there is something wrong with what I observe. There is something fundamentally wrong with me, right? Shame is a big wound that I often work with. And it's so hard to get through because it's running the show. You're not aware that it's driving all of your interpretations.
Mason:
Even if it means laking Jing.
Benny:
Exactly. Yeah. So you'll be continuing to lake without even realizing it. So then we need to learn to be able to watch that. And then you can recognize, ah, okay, there is a part of me that is interpreting reality through that perspective of shame. Only then do I have enough space where I can start to enact change, where I can start to choose something different because I recognize that I am no longer that. That is, at best, a part. But what is that which observes? And I think that this is where we're talking about essence here, and that's where Jing starts to be cultivated, coming back to that essence. But you will go through so many different stages that feel in some ways self-destructive. because you become aware of the lie that you've been telling yourself to maintain a certain level of your existence.
Mason:
Yeah. Like you start ripping down the scaffolding that's holding you up and realize you're wobbly because you haven't got the muscles, but you need to then build them.
Benny:
Yeah. Yeah. So it's incredibly empowering, but also like. Harrowing. Like, you know, like terms like the dark night of the soul, like come about for real reasons. You know, like the cultivation is not for the faint of heart. Yeah. It's not for someone that wants to live dead on their feet.
Mason:
Do you find like, you know, here at shame, I have so much shame. That's why I can't put myself out there or why I can't do this thing. And maybe that's true, but like cherry on top kind of thing.
Benny:
Yeah.
Mason:
And likewise, like I often will put, you know, it's a shame. It's because of my shame that I can't do this. And, but what I'm actually talking about, why I can't do this is because no, that's because you don't have technical skills to do that thing. The shame is just up there, maybe.
Benny:
Protecting you from doing the thing. Yeah. Like, that's like a confronting realisation.
Mason:
Yeah. I find that confronting.
Benny:
Yeah. We all have it. Like, I'm not impervious to it. I'm talking about it. But like, I'm a student of this. I'm still learning and discovering.
Mason:
I think it's... Well, you said change, because that's hard. If you do this, things are going to change. Your values are going to change. The direction, your disposition is going to change.
Benny:
Yeah. Yeah, like when we look at this through, like just coming back to a nervous system perspective on all of this, we've all been wired to some degree towards safety and belonging. If we didn't have that fundamental wiring, we wouldn't be here having this conversation. So particularly in our formative years, we learn what is safe and what will help me belong really at a core level. So then, when we're talking about change, it can completely be counter intuitive to that core level programming.
Mason:
Cause you don't belong to the group anymore.
Benny:
Exactly. Like if I then start to take risks or move into a direction that other people don't accept, my family system does not agree with, that feels incredibly unsafe. You're being exiled from the tribe and then you're subject to the wild and you wouldn't survive, you know, like from the primitive biological standpoint, that is death.
Mason:
Is that why virtue exists as like a compass and a barometer within Tao in terms of going, okay, you're going to step out of that path and people might not like it, but rather than do it when you can do it with virtuousness of like, I'm going to do it with gratitude of where I came from. There's going to be an inherent lovingness, not slapping flowers on the piece of shit. That's my way of putting it, of polishing the term. But like. Ah, I've got it to such an extent that not only can I observe and comprehend the source of that shame, but it's so evident ancestrally of say, I can just see the struggle that everyone went through, that I can feel that love. So as you do it, you do. Get rid of that. That safety goes and that belonging goes. However, you're not the one that's necessarily- If there's virtue, you're not burning the bridge. If people can't handle it, fine.
But if you do it in such an extreme manner where you're just an arsehole and everyone's like, well, I don't want to be around you anymore because you think you're some new spiritual guru. And we don't want to be around you. Like, that's because I'm excommunicated and I don't belong anymore. And that's my path of cultivation. You know what I mean? Like, you know, is that kind of like where virtues sits in it as well?
Benny:
Well, like, you know, when you look at Taoism, like one of the first virtues is just like being a good person. whatever that means. Very subjective. Very loaded. And you know, like I've had so many different cases where we've been traumatized by that alone.
Mason:
Yeah. I mean, and there's ways that I've like, you know, when I've stepped out of safety of being a good boy and all of a sudden I act in a way where someone's like, you're an asshole.
Benny:
Please let me appease you.
Mason:
Well, yeah. Well, they're like, and yet I can be like, no, hang on. I'm going to continue. I can see clearly the loving path for my Jing is to go over here. I'm going to do it respectfully. And then of course you get some phrase and some people who really react to that. And then likewise, other people who don't even notice. And you're just like, Oh yeah, you're just moving along and it's not that big a deal. And it's huge for me. And they're just like, yeah, whatever. Yeah. You know, you're still a part of the crew, you know, as long as you don't do it like a dick.
Benny:
Totally. And like, that does bring up something important, I think, that like, say that does happen where something is challenging our sense of belonging. You get that reflection. You're an arsehole. Right?
Mason:
You used to be vegan, man.
Benny:
Yeah. Like I liked you better when you were, when you were this way. Yeah. Right. When we're looking at it through the perspective of Jing or essence, you can come back and go, okay. How does that, like, how does that land for me? Like, what is my fundamental truth? What is that nature? Then you start to establish, and this is where things I think then start to turn into more virtuous qualities. You may have compassion for that person that interpreted you that way. You may then start to open up. What might be happening for that person that they would want to project that reality or manipulate someone in that particular way. Straight away, what you'll see is you're starting to move out of your own separateness and selfishness and self-absorption. And I think this is where the virtuous qualities start to develop.
It's a funny paradox though, because we're diving back into the essence of ourself. and the body to discover something that is inherently loving, I think. At least that's how I experience it.
Mason:
The greatest, you know, you're not doing the lowest common denominator of your ability to be loving by, I'm just going to sacrifice myself to just to be here. And so the net positive love that you're able to put out there. is diminished and therefore the jing, which is literally like, if you don't make these changes and you sacrifice your nervous system regulation and your capacity to like, all right, toxic belonging versus like, well, toxic subjectively, it might not be toxic for the other person, but that doesn't matter. There's no blanket right or wrong. So it's like, right, that's going to suck for you, but it's best. I'm going to head off. And the net love when you get to 80 and 90, You've gone down a path where you are regulated within your nervous system. Your lovingness doesn't have a cap on it.
And therefore your bone degeneration and your joints and your ability to keep on engaging with your nervous system and remain healthy doesn't get sacrificed. Is that kind of aligned with what the practical outcome would be?
Benny:
Yeah, totally. Totally. Like you're essentially you're learning. How to live authentically, I think, with all of this is you learn about what works for you, what doesn't work for you, how you work in the world, like how you navigate all of that authentically. It's like when you look at the spectrum of consciousness, authenticity is at the top. It's actually beyond love. And I think this is where then it goes a little bit further. Like we were talking about before, like, I'm good. That's an interpretation of something, a favorable outcome that someone does in a certain context as to who's to say what is good and what is bad. But authenticity says something very different. And I think that when you look at that through the lens of, am I interacting with authentic things as myself authentically, you have to discover that. I think, I think that we're all on a path of discovery.
If you don't discover that, then you're leaking essence without your awareness all the time.
Mason:
Yeah. And I think everyone can hear why we talk about Jing so much and why we come back to these conversations around stillness and Jing and authenticity. But I feel like let's really hone in before the next podcast, where we really fire things up with the Qi. And I would say Qi, once you get a bit of water, you can go whitewater rafting, you can jump, you can go canyoning, you can have a bit of fun. Jing, block of ice. It's... It brings you back. It's... Yeah, I think everyone can relate to what I'm saying. Like there's a reason that these conversations are prevalent around in the world, in the spiritual world, in the wellness world, and why everyone kind of tries to come back and have these, but maybe have them a little half-assed. So in terms of just, you've got to address that Jing and it's got to be a core part of the practice that never ends. Likewise, taking Jing herbs.
And likewise, that lifestyle design and the ability to everything that's again, the cherries on top that when you have taken these practices, because we have got practices, they're just embedded into culture of society to hold us all together in this place of survival and safety. Right. And it's like, all right, that's good. But then we're looking for best ever in terms of our evolution. And so it's a little bit of like, go in without, you know, protect our individualistic Jing while respecting the masses and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, respecting what the civilization needs to do. So before we do get to the canyoning and waterfall fun of Qi and the whitewater rafting and catching sick waves, because that's what Qi can tend to be, that vitality. I think it's going to be like two or three weeks before the next step comes out. Let's do some homework with everybody.
We'll pop some videos to some or some resources. We're going to put your three treasure framework down in the show notes. So everyone can get a check that out. Yeah. Get another sense of what the treasures are and especially just what read the Jing one and of what it is. And then, yeah, a couple of practices, perhaps whether it's the three pages that everyone can partake in or what do you reckon we'd be everyone to be best served by? Well, I think- Two hours of standing meditation. Straight off the bat. Straight off the bat, bang.
Benny:
And don't disappoint your teacher.
Mason:
Don't do it, you just- Naughty boy or girl.
Benny:
I think we might put a progression from movement to stillness practice, because I see it as like we're talking about earlier. If you just go straight into stillness and you've been like moving hectic your whole life, that might not feel like a safe place to return to.
Mason:
Or even if you've been in a good state of stillness and then you're out up and about Yippin and Yahoo and enjoying, I kind of sometimes take for granted that I could use a little bit of progression from movement to stillness, even though I see myself as some advanced Taoist.
Benny:
Yeah. So I think a practice, we can definitely share a practice around that where you're first exploring the space between those two experiences. Because I think everyone does have a different relationship with those two states. It's ever-changing, and we'll go through different seasons and different times. Sometimes might require more stillness, sometimes might require more movement. The way I see it is both are equally important, but for each person, you may have a propensity toward yang. You know, I was very, very yang in nature in the beginning, and I would always just kind of burn myself out. But when I first started Qigong practices, it was like, it was really intense in that it brought, I was like, why am I doing this Qigong and getting really angry all the time?
Mason:
I get angry a lot when I'm practicing, like, not stillness, but moving stillness practice.
Benny:
Yeah. It was concentrated in me and I had a bunch of things going on for me that was leading to that. But I was kind of becoming aware of what was happening.
Mason:
How long did that take to resolve? Or did you say it wasn't and then you applied observation and then it did resolve?
Benny:
Yeah, it took me on a bit of a journey. Like I had to discover without like trying to go too far, like the fundamental relationship that I had with anger was suppression. And this is maybe a useful nuanced distinction. On the surface, I was really calm all the time and everyone would be like, oh, you're super calm and chilled and you don't get stressed. But underneath I'm like a duck, like paddling like crazy. So I had created a mask.
Mason:
I was going to say I'm like a duck peaking. Like a peaking duck. I love baking.
Benny:
So it took me like, I had to look at like the fundamental relationship that I learned with my father, really in essence, super angry dude. So I learned very early on that like anger is something that you absorb. It's not a safe thing. So for me, I didn't have any outlet of expression for that. So when I started Qigong practices, it all came up and all I wanted to do was just press it down again. from a neurosomatic perspective, like I actually needed to learn to build capacity for safe expression of that energy of anger. And I needed to stop denying that it was there within myself. So in terms of it going away, like that was like the genuine path that it took me on. So there's the practices along the way and there's the relationship that they reflect.
And the way I see practices, any practice that we'll share is that it's not something that's going to fix you or heal you or make you necessarily instantaneously feel in a particular way. The point is not the practice. The point is the self that is interacting with the practice because you are the practice. at the end of the day, like when you go into Tai Chi, Qigong, all of that sort of stuff, you practice forms over many years and you digest them and you embody them until you remember that your fundamental nature is being expressed through it. And that, when we look at what's life like when I'm just the natural expression and flow of energy that moves through me, is continuing to be like authentic, just like a child. Like a child gets sad. They're sad. Child is happy, happy, angry. And like to an adult, that's Freaking chaotic.
Mason:
Yeah. I had some authentic children this morning. I had to look after good. I mean, you, you know, Leo.
Benny:
Well, yeah. Yeah. Like you just like, ah, like, you know, we've all been kind of raised in this dynamic to some degree of like the adult. we develop in this world and context. It's like, I know about the world, and I want to teach you about the world, and all these sorts of things. Then you have this fundamental, raw nature that's coming through that doesn't yet understand themselves, or life, or where they fit into it all. They're just like a pure expression of energy moving through this body. And whether we realize it or not, that nature is still there. I think that any practice that we do, whether it's movement or stillness practices, it becomes a gateway of discovering and nurturing that essence. And we've all got different flavors of it. And I think that's why we can't just do a 10-day meditation retreat into this place of, I'm now this spiritual person or whatever.
You are spirit as your fundamental nature. That's not an identity. And that expresses itself in all of these different ways. So what can I do to become aware of that and allow that to flow into life?
Mason:
Yeah. So there will be a practice and you got to apply that and remember you are the practice. Little video. Yeah. Little video. Yeah. 15, 20 minutes. Yeah.
Benny:
Yeah.
Mason:
Something like that. That people can. Maybe 10 to 15. 10 to 15.
Benny:
Yeah.
Mason:
Hit it two or three times a week. Yeah. And then do it your own way. Yeah. Take it off pieced.
Benny:
Yeah. Think of it as each time you practice, you're that pot again. There's that ice in the pot. And then you, your practice is you turn the burner on and then you just need just enough, enough exposure to heat up that water, get the bubbles going. Yeah. It's observation. Like if we look at say a basic stillness, so you're standing there. You're there. You're becoming aware of your body. You're breathing. You're noticing your breath moving. This is all fuel. This is the flames starting to cultivate an essence. And then as you continue to become present, you notice your breath. You notice what's happening within your body. You notice your movement. You may notice then the chi starting to move through you. Once you start to notice that, you can then work with it more clearly. Your brains are tuning to that frequency.
You're starting to connect back with essence rather than just standing there and breathing and moving your arms around. It's very different because you're learning to attune to something. And when you attune to something, you can cultivate it. And this is where it's a bit of a different conversation to say, just doing traditional exercise. fitness, that has its place. That's going to get your circulation moving through and get your muscles going. And it's all important. You need that. You need that fundamental structure. But there is an essence underneath it that you can cultivate. And that's what we're exploring in these types of practices.
Mason:
Oh, easy, everybody. So that's Jing. Join us next time when we move into the treasure of Qi. Until then, might be worth going back and listening again, even if you put it on a 1.5 speed and just, you know, pause it at those points when Benny's saying something that's relevant, it's worth going and digesting again. And movementmonk.xyz. Yep, movementmonk.xyz. You can go and check it. Benny's got lots of beautiful intro, like onboarding courses to your mentoring group?
Benny:
Yeah, we're coming up with a new one that will help just establish the foundations of all of this work called the Body Trust Experience.
Mason:
Body trust experience. Go into the mailing list there once you get onto the website, if you're interested in that, or go and explore everything else. Or you can jump straight into a monthly group once you're on board with courses.
Benny:
Yeah. If you want help implementing, you know, cause this is like coming home to your body is a practice. It's something that needs support. There's so many things that are pulling us away from the body these days. And so I wanted to create support structures to bring it into life.
Mason:
So if you want to come in for a few months or a couple of years, you can come and chat every Thursday?
Benny:
Yeah. We have sessions two times a week now. OK. Yeah. I run like a co-regulation session first because it's a big important part of this. I find is that we need to learn how to regulate as ourself in a social environment. And because often we didn't learn that. We have so many parts of us that we deny, that obstruct. that fundamental relationship with ourself and our body. And so we have that. And then we have practice sessions every week. And so that way you can implement it.
Mason:
Heck yeah. Get onto it, everyone. There's lots of different paths that you can go. Anyway, you're all adults. You know what to do. Thanks, Benny. Thanks, mate. Super cool. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Otherwise you're going to miss this chi episode. Gets really fun there. Take your Jing herbs. Thanks everyone.
