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We're absolutely thrilled to have acupuncturist Jost Sauer back on the pod today sharing his cosmic insights. In today's chat Jost and Mason explore the role of intuitive understanding in the Chinese Medicine model, and how going beyond the linear into the realm of the energy field and consciousness is a key factor in healing. Today's conversation is deep and insightful, Jost is an absolute wealth of knowledge and wisdom, sharing his experience as both a practitioner and student in a easy and accessible way. Dive on in to challenge your analytical mind and expand your cosmic awareness.
"With being human comes obligation, and the obligation of the human is to free our blockages. If the whole planet frees the blockages, we are in Paradise."
- Jost Sauer
Mason and Jost discuss:
- Five Element Theory.
- The definition of health.
- The life/dealth, Yin/Yang cycle.
- The soul as our human blueprint.
- Human beings as energy beings.
- Fad diets and intermittent fasting.
- The body as a crystalline structure.
- Tonic herbs as messengers from heaven.
- Chinese Medicine and the energetic realms.
- The link between your level of health and your capacity for intuition.
- Intuitive understanding as a foundational pillar in Chinese Medicine.
- Using herbs and practice to clear obstructions in the meridians and energy body.
- The physical organs vs the energy organs; the Western and Eastern concepts of what these are and what they embody.
- The importance of a daily Qi practice to creating harmony within the body, mind and spirit - consistency is key here.
Who is Jost Sauer?
Jost (aka the lifestyle medicine man) was born in Germany in 1958 and is an ex-hippie, anarchist and drug runner turned acupuncturist, popular author and healthy lifestyle expert. His background includes competitive skiing, body-building, and ironman training, but after post-drug suicidal depression led him to martial arts and the study of TCM, he discovered the power of Qi, the cycle of Qi of Chinese medicine and that a natural rhythmic lifestyle holds the secrets to anti-ageing, health and success. Jost has been using lifestyle therapeutically for his clients for over 20 years. Jost is an expert in Chinese Medicine, which he lectured in for over a decade at the Australian College of Natural Medicine, he has been running successful health clinics since 1991, initially specialising in addiction recovery, and has treated tens of thousands of clients. His passion is sharing his ongoing discoveries about making lifestyle your best medicine through his books, blogs, articles, workshops and retreats.
Check Out The Transcript Below:
Bro, welcome back.
Yep, thank you Mason.
It's so good, man. I had so much fun last time, and... well I'm just stoked that you ended up down here, Bangalow way. We're not back at work yet, but as soon as I knew you were going to be in the area, I was like "Yeah, I'm coming out of my shell," to come and rock another podcast with you.
How's it been going over... You're at the Starlight festival?
Oh look, I love the Bangalow Starlight festival. I love festivals in the first place because it allows you to meet a lot of people from all different walks of life. And the people connection is crucial. Because obviously in Chinese Medicine, everything is contextual, nothing is absolute. And you can write a book about Chinese Medicine, but unless you meet people and you actually establish a relationship, Chinese Medicine really doesn't work and the beauty of those festivals is you meet people from all different walks of life and you can really meet what goes on in their life and you can find something that is of value to address. Chinese Medicine is... The reason I love it so much is you can... It's so versatile, you can apply it to every situation. And it's a medicine that is designed to evolve and to take you constantly to new levels.
Some of the books are amazing but they're 2D, right? What you're talking about is blowing out that web, of that connection, that invisible web, into a 5D reality, which is the nature of the medicine. If it's 2D, and stays within an institution or a hospital or just one particular context, you're not going to get that full experiential nature of what it is.
No, it's a colorful language. It's a colorful medicine. It's a many thing that goes far beyond the scope that we perceive in our conscious reality. Chinese Medicine, it comes from the energetic realms, it comes from the spiritual realms. So it comes from Qi, it comes from... By the time it's channeled down, and funneled into this narrow red bend reality, it has lost a lot of its meaning. The idea is to expand our horizon and consciousness, again in order to bring the whole complexity of Chinese Medicine into application. And that requires, obviously, thinking outside the box all the time. It requires for you to actually not go linear, because if you go linear you limit the medicine. And the beauty of this medicine is, you can go into any situation and if you're open to it, you always know what to do. Because the intuitive understanding is like the prime element of this medicine and we need to train that.
The intuitive understanding, it's not the something that belongs the conscious mind, it belongs to our energy field, and our soul. And Chinese Medicine has got its origin in this spectrum of the energy field, and understands that the blueprint for everything what we see is in the energy field. And basically, everything that's going to get developed and discovered and invented, already exists in the ether. So, the Chinese already tapped into that. For it to exist in the physical, it must have its origin in the energy field. So, the good thing about that is that in Chinese Medicine, we don't have that doom and gloom thinking. So, a lot of people think, our earth is going to collapse.
Yeah, there's not that ambiguous... That anxiety that comes from the ambiguity of the unknown, right? There's no crisis mode, as you said.
Yeah, no, absolutely no, totally no. Because the fact is that we always find a solution.
Yeah, and that's not just in-
Because there are always people who would tap into the ether, it will not stop. The whole idea of Chinese Medicine, what we experience in the physical reality, is based on the five elements. The water nurtures the wood, the wood feeds the fire, the fire becomes ash, which is earth, the earth evaporates, air, clouds, it rains, it's water, it feeds the wood. It's a cycle that will continue forever. So, that's the biochemistry within the physical, but how to direct the five elements is obviously the mind, it's obviously our perception of where we are going to take that. And that intuitive understanding that takes us to direct the five elements comes from the energy field.
So let's talk about that. You were talking about training your intuitive nature, because that's something that in the West, it seems to be the biggest struggle with taking on, in fullness, Chinese Medicine over into the West, is taking it outside of an analytical, complete system. That's what is happening in the West, everyone wants to still... We talked about it in the last podcast. We started talking about pathology, disease classification and all those kinds of things which doesn't necessarily... You can do it side by side with traditional Chinese Medicine.
However, you try and take Chinese Medicine and make it work through the lens of Western pathology... You're going to basically cut out, which is what we do with surgery all the time, you're going to go and cut out that intuitive nature that is that 5D colourful, living web of medicine that Chinese Medicine really is. So, how do we transfer into a modern time and train that intuitive nature, and bring with it not just this... In the West a lot of people are like, "There's always a solution, always something is going to happen," But it's kind of "Cross my fingers and hope it works," verses when you really are tapped in and your intuition and your nature of where to take your five elements and where to take the healing for yourself and others is coming from a real energetic realm that you're plugged into, right. So that you're not kind of hoping, it's not like a belief system, it's just like, "Well, this is a reality."
It really exists.
It exists, and that's a reality. So how do you train tapping into that reality?
Yeah, you can't use your academic mind for that. Obviously, that's why this is not possible with our daily practice.
So, in Chinese Medicine, it states over and over, we are energy beings. Our energy field is structured by the meridian system and the acupuncture meridians and the organ structure exists in the energy field, so every organ is an energy organ. So that means, it's already within us. So, as a soul, before we incarnate, before we come into this physical world, we already got all the instructions about what to do, it's like a survival kit, like a mission statement, a full on instruction manual. It's in each of the energy organs. And the energy organs in Chinese Medicine are the ones, as we talked in the last podcast, are written in upper cases, to differentiate it from the western organ. So-
And it's very important. I just want to reiterate that, that's why we we'll say, "Liver wood," to make sure that we're hitting it, that we're not talking about the lower case 'L' liver organ and that's it. It's a very... as you're saying, it's the entire encapsulation of that wood element, and it happens to be called the Liver.
Yes. Look, the spiritual hierarchy, which the Chinese refer to as heaven, which is governed by Tao, which you could say is God. So, they have created the physical, and they have put in meditators between earth and heaven in order for it to develop, and this is what the souls are. Our souls, when we incarnate, are equipped with our mission, we know exactly what to do. We are given all the instructions for it to grow. The spiritual hierarchy want the earth to become better, it's the plan. The mission is for the earth to become a beautiful planet, that's the aim. We will not destroy this, because there is always really good souls coming in with instructions in the energy organ of knowing exactly what to do.
So, the example I use is, someone was 50 years of age, who gets a new iPhone. They don't know what to do because the iPhone, or the smart phone is not coming with an instruction manual. So, what do you do? You give your phone to your five-year-old niece. And she immediately shows you how to use that phone. So the instruction of how to use that phone is already in the energy field of that young child.
Yes? They already understand, before they incarnated, they already had all the instructions. So they look at iPhone, iPad, bang, they know what to do.
Yes? So obviously we don't have that, at my age I didn't have that in my organ system, I have to learn it, I have to acquire it, but the young child has it and they get it. So, we constantly got souls coming in with information in the energy organ that will have all the solutions in order to bring the earth to the next. Because this is why, like at Bangalow, you meet a lot of conspiracists, and a lot of people who believe in doom and gloom, and there's a lot of people from the surrounding area that run around and tell you, "This is it, the earth is going to collapse next year."
Very pessimistic, yeah. Very. And I've been there as well, it's a very analytical place. But that doom and gloom, it's hard to get out sometimes when you think, "But this is the reality of it, and if I look away from it then all of a sudden I'm going to shut down and become one of the sheep." Verse, by broadening your awareness of what is actually going on.
Yes. It will not collapse. Why? I mean, it took the spiritual hierarchy billions of years to build all this, they've got a big plan, they've got a big mission, they know what they're doing. The fact is, it's regulated by Yin and Yang. The physical is always subject to Yin and Yang. That means creation and destruction co-exist. That means, for us to move to the next, there will be destruction. Of course we see the destruction, but the destruction is not the end.
You know? It's the beginning of the new. It's a transformation. Like in therapy. 40 years in my work as a therapist, in order to make someone healthier, in order to transform, you destroy a lot. Like in my training in Chinese martial art, we create a new body.
Yeah? I create a new body, every day I train I create a new body. But in order to create a new body, I destroy the previous aspect of my body. That means I'm always in pain. Yes? I'm always destroy an aspect of my body. It's like body building of a car. If you want to get a new panel done, you destroy, you wreck the car first and then you put new panels on. So, the earth goes through that process, it's an evolution.
So obviously, if we don't understand the process of transformation and if we aren't have the intuitive understanding develop that means we are aligning with the energy field, we can get trapped in destruction. We can get trapped in the observation of "It's destroying itself." That means we are so trapped. And this is regulated by the physical body, and unfortunately, the Liver energy is responsible for that. If the Liver Qi is stagnant and the Liver Qi doesn't move, that means you actually... It's not moving proper, it can get stuck. Because the Liver is directly going to the Heart, to the Fire Element, and that's where your perception of awareness comes in. Your mind perceives by the Heart. If the Liver Qi is stagnant, the mind gets stuck on one aspect, it gets stuck on the destruction, it can't see the creation, it can't move on to the next.
So now you see doom and gloom. You see Yang but not Yin. So you see a Yin Yang symbol but only with the yang. And so Liver Qi stagnation is unfortunately a by product of a lifestyle. So a lifestyle, if we don't develop the skills to make the Liver Qi move, we cause Liver Qi stagnation. Liver chi stagnation can come easily from inappropriate way of living. For example, marijuana, pot, impacts on the Liver. If you smoke regular, what it can do, it can actually stop the Liver Qi moving. So what happens now? It becomes a staccato towards the Fire. Now the mind can't perceive the next so it gets stuck on the destructive aspect. It sees Yang but not Yin.
Marijuana can do that. I've been observing drugs for a long time, and this is one of the side effects of pot that it can make you stuck on only perceiving Yang, not Yin. And that means now you can see it's going to get doom and gloom, it's going to destroy. Now you perceive reality, "The earth is going to die." So, the fact is that all of us actually know exactly what it's about and we just need to get to the intuitive understanding of our body, and that requires the Qi to flow. If the Qi flows, that means it goes through all the other organ systems, now we've got access directly to our energy field, now we have access to information about our mission, we suddenly understand. So this is where it goes into, we need to do the practice every day. So we need a daily practice. So, yeah.
Well this is what I like, I mean, this is a nature of Chinese Medicine that's highly made that transfer over into the West, but not fully, is that one that, if we're talking about Liver Qi stagnation, are we going to just unlearn how to understand that and just bring into our household an understanding of what that is, or are we going to go to a practitioner. Okay, we can go to a practitioner and get some needling and get things moving.
But as you were saying, daily practice, procuring your own ability to keep your own Qi moving so that you become your own practitioner. And then, I think from looking at that Yang side of things, whether it's conspiracy, or... we're always looking for solutions, with Yang it's doom and gloom so we're looking for like, how do we right this wrong. And so, right the wrong is the mentality of "I am a patient, I need to go to a doctor, I am sick, I've got a symptom, I need to right this wrong." And then when you do get the Qi moving, and you have the Yin, that accumulative energy and that calm and that still energy of the Yin, you can start to... The mind, the Heart energy can move and the mind can start moving towards not so much as a problem solution and what I'm fixing in myself every day with my practice, but something more exploratory, something more cultivating, something more exciting.
So, with the daily practice. Let's have a look at that simplicity, because that's something I like hitting again and again and again with everybody. So theoretically, what does it feel like for you, when you get there and you say "Okay, there's the potential for Liver Qi stagnation, however I am in here in a not solving problems, in a not fixing myself state of mind." What is your state of mind? Are you exploring yourself? Are you looking for longevity? What does it feel like?
I look for to free my energy field. Okay, so our job as human beings, in order to be of benefit to creation, that means we are of benefit to others and ourselves, so we benefit creation. In order to be beneficial to others and to life, I need to free my obstructions in the meridian system. So if my acupuncture meridian are free flowing, I am without... Without a deliberate action, I am good to others, I'm not planning to be good, I'm naturally good. So I'm not deliberately good. I'm not going and making a conscious decision to be good, I'm automatically good because my energy flows freely, I'm automatically embracing the situation from the best perspective, and I'm naturally considering the person as a friend. So our job as humans is to actually clear the blockages in the meridian. So I don't have actually a future thinking, because I've been doing it for so long so I perceive myself as a soul, a soul doesn't think future, because it's infinite.
Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.
I'm in the present, yeah? Because that's the only thing that matters to the soul. So I don't actually go far into the future, maybe I should but I can't actually go in.
Maybe for a bit of fun.
The fact is that every morning when I wake up, the only thing that concerns me is the blockages in my field, and I know exactly there are blockages in my large intestine meridian. If I don't correct them, it can't control my Wood. If it can't control the Wood, I will have irritability and crankiness, that means I most likely will harm someone by saying something rude, or I feel irritable and cranky and angry, that means I harm myself.
Mm-hmm (affirmative), are you a Lung constitution? A Metal constitution?
No, no, it's a fluctuating system anyway.
Yeah, of course.
It's like... Now that's like a general approach. Every morning, I know exactly, I'm going to look at whatever the obstructions are-
What's your process of... Just scanning?
Yeah, it's scanning, yeah. So, the dominating symptom, that's what I mean with "It's fluctuating." So it's not a dominating element, there is always a dominating symptom, and the symptom in Chinese Medicine, the symptom belongs to the body, it's subject of the physical body but it doesn't belong to the soul, it's not property of the soul. The energy field does not know symptoms, the soul of our nature is pure awareness, joy, bliss, but the soul incarnates into the physical and that means it matches itself with the central nervous system of the physical body and that causes symptoms, that's pain. And that's sensory, and that leads to thinking. So, in the mornings, I will always wake up to a dominating thinking, a thought, and a dominating symptom. So it could be a pain in the knee, it could be... With me, obviously because of my injuries from when I was hard into sport, so usually injuries come up like an aching knee, aching hip, something like that. Or if I worked too much in the day before and I got too intensely involved with transformational processes with my clients, I have energy stuck from that previous day and that gives me a squeezy sick feeling in the stomach. And so, whatever it is... Or I feel lethargic, or depression, whatever.
The fact is, whatever is dominating, I sink into that. And then I use my body to clear the meridians. So I hold onto that symptoms, I don't drink coffee. I don't do anything to override the symptoms. I love coffee, but I drink coffee when I don't need it.
Yeah, that's the way. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Yeah. It's just a... I love coffee, I love cake, I love everything, I love red wine. That's the beauty of living that way is that you can enjoy everything, I'm not trapped in you need juice diet, I'm not trapped in any diets. If you put the focus on clearing your energy field first, you are in charge of substance. That means you know what to do because you don't need it. So if I wake up and drink coffee to get going, I override the symptom, I'm giving the instructions now to the body and to my energy field, and I don't actually want to clear that. So what happens now is, I actually stop getting access to my information about my intuitive understanding. So if I wake up and get straight into coffee, into sugar, into distractions, into cigarettes, or meeting people or having a call-
On the phone?
Yeah, on the phone. What happens now is I'm actually stopping, what happens is I stop the internet connection to my energy field. So it's like I got my computer but no internet connection. So my energy field has got all the information. To access that information, I need to unblock the obstructions in my energy field first.
And you're using your physical practice to do that?
Yes. This is the beauty of... If you love yoga, you do yoga. If you do core training, you take core training. If you do stretches, you do stretches. If you love TRX ropes, you use TRX ropes. If you love martial arts, you do Tai-chi. It's really irrelevant what practice you do as long as you know why you do it.
So talk a little bit about that. Are we talking about intent here, like if you have an intention to move through? And what you were saying before about whatever deficiency or blockage we are experiencing that day, and watching to see if you know or if you don't... We all know it really well, because we know where we get emotionally hung up during the day and we know where we lack a bit of compassion or empathy or where we get angry at people. For me, it's criticism, and it's mostly... It might come up as criticism for others but I feel that if I go a little bit further, I can feel that real hectic criticism of myself that it's emerging from. But I know that's my blockage, right? And that's an interesting thing, it was a good reminder from you the other day. I can't remember what you said specifically on Instagram, but you were like, "Look, there's no bad people or bad emotions, it's just an energetic blockage."
Right. Super fascinating. So you're saying, no matter what your physical practice is... Because I like that approach as well. It doesn't really matter what your... Everything can be your spiritual practice, everything can be your energetic practice.
Yeah, everything is a spiritual practice, as long as you know what you do. You need to know why you do it. So if you understand that what the practice is, from a physics perspective, exercise is like piezoelectricity. It acts on crystallization and the obstructions in the crystalline arrangement. So what happens is that when we have a blockage in the energy field, that blockage is, as physics has identified, is in fact a crystalline arrangement. It's like... Your acupuncture point is in fact a crystal. So if the energy is not moving through it's because a crystalline arrangement has been. That's what pain is. When we try to avoid pain, and don't move in a certain area with our body, we actually enhance the obstruction, and that becomes a crystal, it's like crystal. And that crystal is memories, it's full with all kind of memories about issues, whatever that is.
So that is crystalline, sedimenty, like a deposit within the-
Yes. When you use Chinese massage therapy, which is an enormous, complex field, which takes... in China, you study medicine first, then you specialize in Tuina, which is the Chinese massage therapy. So all up, seven years, eight years before you are actually allowed to work on people. And what they do, they sit on the point with the knuckle, and they know exactly, "This is a crystal." So what they do is they apply piezoelectricity on that point. Piezoelectricity means, you are putting pressure on the crystal. If you apply pressure on a crystal, the energy that's inherent in the crystal will now be released. That's the sister of the cigarette lighter, the electric cigarette lighter. In a cigarette lighter, you have a crystal and you put pressure on it, the energy, and it gets connected to the gas that becomes the flame. Cars used to have a piezoelectricity. Piezoelectricity is a physics fact, everyone can Google it, it all comes up.
But our body is also piezoelectricity, it's a crystalline arrangement. When our meridian system matches with the central nervous system, that merging becomes crystalline, it's a crystalline arrangement. So the meridians have got different pathways to the nervous system, but the crystalline arrangement is the result of the two. And it's the process of the energy with the central nervous system, the blood flow etc. So the crystalline arrangement doesn't belong to the soul, but it's incarnate and matched with the central nervous system, it becomes crystalline. So that's why when you sit on a certain point it can transmit energy all the way up the other part of the body.
Yeah, and so this is where death point striking in kung fu comes into, we know exactly what point to hit. In that moment, you hit the acupuncture point and the blockage in the crystal now gets reversed and it stops the flow and people die. Death point strike, it's called dim mak. So obviously it takes decades to study and learn and by the time you master this art you have no interest in applying it.
Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah the way it normally goes.
But healing is exactly the same thing. So the healing, the Tuina, the Chinese massage therapy, understands that the blockage is the cause of the problem because that crystal stops the energy being taken to the energy organ and stops the energy from the energy organ to be moved to the other parts of the body. It basically physically stops intuitive understanding to be developed. So the question we started at the beginning is how to develop intuitive understanding, the answer to that is, to free the meridians of its blockages and that means we have to go into the crystalline arrangement and actually free the blockages. Because once you have the blockages free, that means your senses, your awareness merges, your thoughts meet your soul nature and the awareness of your soul nature now influences your thoughts. Suddenly your thoughts are generated by your soul awareness rather than by conscious mind, reflection, analysis.
So instead of going into using your conscious mind and you're looking at a rational formula, your thoughts, if the energy flows freely to the energy organ, because the crystalline arrangement has been taken care of, what happens now is that your thoughts are influenced by the awareness of the soul. Means when you talk to someone, you suddenly know... You just suddenly understand, you suddenly see a blue print of something. For example, if someone talks about a problem, and you suddenly know. That's what the seer is used in therapy, like in the old days when people had a problem, they had to see the shaman. The shaman was able to connect his thoughts to the soul awareness and suddenly saw, suddenly knew what to do.
It's so simple as well. That was the thing... When I was first getting into it, in talking to you about it, it's real electric and romantic and it's amazing and the language can go... You're like "Oh whoa, you do this and this and the thing goes into this and goes into the energy organ," but we all know the experience. If everyone listening, and I mean, even for myself, this is a really familiar place, when you just have those days when you're moving your body a few days in a row in a way that is unblocking whatever needs to be unblocked, right? Its not like a mental idea of trying to get fit or trying to fix myself in any way, I'm just moving, enjoying that movement, exploring my body.
And you get unblocked, that's all it is.
Just unblocking. And then after a few days you get into a little bit more of a flow, because maybe you've been sleeping a little bit better and just eating a little bit better and all of a sudden you're popping and the ideas start coming to you and you're talking to someone and as you were saying... Everyone knows this experience, maybe I can feel what they're going through a little bit, I can relate a little bit and then you just have a really nice conversation and that person comes off feeling a little bit better. It doesn't need to get much more complex than that, that's like that flow state of a day.
I think what's for me where I've always got tripped up is I've gone... I've thought it needed to be more complex than that and I thought I needed to work harder and I needed to move more and do more Qigong or do more stretching or more standing meditation to compound it verses just allowing it to be a nice, gentle consistent building over time and really going, and sure, Mason, that you can relate, you're going nice and slow and steady enough, and you're going to be able to keep this up for the next four, five, six decades. And that's something I'm really coming back to at the moment, just how simple it is and how simple the intention, in all its complexity, just to be, just to get tapped into your intuition, a little bit, doesn't need-
The key is consistency.
Far out, isn't it.
It's consistency is the key. The latest discoveries in performance sport therapy, it's all about, you never go to the extreme, but it's consistency. When people look at my body, they always know, because I'm very conditioned and they always go like, "My god, you must be hardcore in weight training and things like..." Firstly, I don't touch weights. But it's about... The people "How do you get the cut look, how do you get so cut?"
"How do you get chiseled?" Yeah.
How do you get chiseled? Consistency!
Every day! Consistency! Years after year, consistency, that's the key. I'm not strong, I'm consistent. But in the consistent, you become strong.
You become really strong.
Yes, that's it. So, I'm not going for the strength, I'm going for consistency, then the consistency over time, that makes you strong. It's a totally different approach, in Taoist view.
Well you completely bypass the mental idea of what strong is, as a gain and as something to own, and you start awakening this phenomena of strength from your body, right?
Yeah. You don't go hardcore, for example if it says 50 kilos on the bench press, I would do 30. I mean, I don't do bench press. But the idea is to... In case you would do this, yeah. So you never go to the extreme, but you're going to do it every day. And that's the key. This is where a lot of really incredible physiques, like the Russian sport conditioning, they are leaders in the field.
Unbelievable what that dude.. Pavlov one of my heroes, I love their bodies, let's talk about it here, this Russian sport condition. But those guys, they're in their seventies, they've got incredible physiques, they're 80 years old, they've got physiques like mindboggling. Their key is consistent. Every day, every day, every day, just build and build and build. Because what happens is, this is where, if you every day honored, you de-obstruct the blockages, you free the blockages. What happens now? The energy field is coming in. The energy field always rejuvenates the body. This is the key to longevity. You see, the physical body, which in Chinese Medicine we call Po, P, O. The physical body is destined to die, is temporary, but the energy, which we call Hun, H, U, N, is infinite. So the energy always rejuvenates the body.
So when we talk about longevity, the interesting thing is my focus is not longevity, my focus is the obstructive blockages, but that leads to longevity. My focus is not strength, my focus is consistency that leads me to strength.
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, amazing.
So it's always a secondary outcome. So my goal is always a secondary... It's almost like a secondary outcome.
Yeah. Which takes a lot of strength within itself. To be able to hold your focus enough, and not get caught up in that... And not get invalidated right away, especially.
Yeah, the beauty is that you develop the skills enough that after a while you just don't... I don't buy into people's... I mean, you've got eight billion people on this planet, and as soon as the soul incarnates into the physical, and that means it matches with the nervous system. In that moment, the soul experiences thoughts, so obviously that leads to an opinion. So that means we've got eight billion opinions on the earth. You can't follow people's opinions, you've got to find your own way here. And the Buddha said, "Don't believe anyone, not even me." And so I don't buy into anything. When I read something about diet, whatever, I just let it go by. But it's the energy field by that shows me where it is, the intuitive understanding needs to be, that's the key element. And interesting thing is, intuitive understanding can be only developed if you live healthy.
So the next answer to the question how to develop intuitive understanding is to be healthy. So the interesting thing is that the intuitive understanding will not come to you if you unhealthy.
Mm-hmm (affirmative), if you're unhealthy, yeah.
Just because someone says "I have an intuitive understanding," you don't know where that comes from, it could be thought process from the physical body. The physical body is very limited in its knowledge, yes? So you can't go by that. So just because something comes in, you don't know what it is. But the fact that... The healthier you are, the more you know.
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I guess what you were saying is that there's variations in health as well. I mean, the difference being, can you be on a explore what real blossoming health is for you...
Okay, my perception of health is the ability to transform symptom into flow.
On a daily-?
That's health. Because that means, whatever level you are, your health is an indicator how you transform your symptom. So you're 80 years of age, and you've got a symptom, like creaky back or achy bones, you can't get out of bed. But, you transform that, and you get out of bed. That's health.
Or even like further internally, right, if you're looking at anxiousness, obsessiveness. That's the most difficult thing, I think, that's where you see... It's where I've caught myself in the biggest trap and going like, "Right, I'm really healthy, and then I'm physically healthy and now I'm going to maintain this state of health." And then all of a sudden, because I've got more energy, it brought up my own self-awareness of my own blockages. I was talking about that criticism, and all these things. So all of a sudden at that point, you look down the barrel of going, "All right, I thought it was hard to overcome physical symptoms. Far out, now I'm going to open up a can of worms of going..." Without pressuring yourself, because there's this all this pressure to become a perfect human when you're in this world, and you're hanging out at Bangalow Starlight festival, you've got to have your sainthood on. You can't be... Can't admit that you're an overly angry person or an anxious person. There's like a cachet that comes with being in the scene.
But the reality of it is, without... Yeah, you got to be working on your, make sure your back isn't hurting, make sure you're stretching so that these physical symptoms aren't going to get you. But then going in and working on transforming that nature of yourself which is super critical or paranoid or whatever that is. That takes a lot of energy. I feel like, that's where a transparency on, and knowing that it's okay to still have these reactions and still have these things that come up.
Yes. We can't not have symptoms, it's not possible. Because every day, our job as humans is to expand the current state of the earth. And it will be regulated by the hierarchy, who has given us information in the energy field of what to do. So the earth will expand. Our job is to keep doing that. But while doing it, while we grow the earth and grow ourselves, we also, that means we are subject to Yin and Yang, that means we also experience destruction. So while I create, all day... Today I focus on creating, tomorrow when I wake up, I experience the destructive aspect of creation. So if I override that, ignore, I'm actually going backwards. That's what they're saying. So what that means is, I'm moving towards my physical body, rather than towards the soul. That means, now, as I move to my physical body and I become more and more the physics... But then I go to a health fair like Bangalow Starlight festival and I'm supposed to be a healer and a soul person, and if I'm in the physical body and not in my soul... If I'm in the physical body but not naturally in my soul, that means I now have to project. I have to do a conceptual view on who I am. That means I have to project, I can't be natural, I have to project. So now I live a double life. Yes?
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, and all... Now you feel like... Now who are the fraudulents.
So now I have to project to be the saint, whereas in fact I'm stuck in the physical. But the fact is that every morning, I wake up to be the sinner, and after my practice, I am the saint. So if I wake up and don't deal with my physical symptoms, of course I get more and more trapped and it becomes in brackets not the saint. So now I have to obviously project to others that I am the saint, whereas the beauty is once you start constantly de-obstructing, you don't actually care what you project to others, you become free of that need. I'm totally free of the need to project, because I deal with that in my morning practice and then I don't care what other people think of me. I just actually don't give a toss what other people think of me. Yeah?
Yeah, liberating, yeah.
And people who know me know that. I learned that from the masters that I studied under. They don't live in the eyes of other people, they don't live as an accord with your expectations, yes?
They are eccentrics, they follow their path. If that suits you or not, that's your problem.
I feel ya, I'm like... That's like-
But you're never obnoxious, you're never bad because your energy is flowing freely so by nature you are compassionate. You're just in a slightly different way than other people think you should be, but you don't care.
I mean, it's refreshing having someone... That's always when you go, "All right, I'm going to start... I'm in the presence of someone that's I want to procure some Shen here some wisdom but without the obnoxiousness, like not... because when I was growing up, in the West, it was either... I'm someone who is very self-aware in the sense that I'm very aware of that it's all made up. Other people looking at me and other people judging me, that's been my whole life, that has been my biggest weight on my shoulders. And then, what I could see, what was projected in the West most of the time were those people that, especially when I was young, those people that didn't care what other people were thinking of them, comes with a slice of obnoxiousness as well. And so as a young person, especially watching a lot of shitty media, maybe do I just need to be obnoxious? And then you play around with that and go through all those kinds of areas and then you get to this point when, as you were saying, awareness of this nature of right, and you can get consistency and clear that energy and, as I say, the whole point of taking the herbs is ideally to become less of an asshole and more of an awesome person. Would that kind of be it?
Yes, that's the point.
That's the point.
Because herbs, herbs act on obstructions and the blockages. That's why herbs are crucial, that's why your mushrooms, your medicinal mushrooms, all that stuff, ashwagandha... It's your first step, it's essential. It's always superior to food because herbs act on the crystalline arrangement more in a concentrated form than food would do. So the example I use is herbs act on crystals, crystalline arrangements and the obstructive blockages like dish washing liquid would act on greasy pots. If you have a greasy pot and you want to clean it, you can scrub that pot under hot water all day, you go nowhere. One drop of dish washing liquid and bang you take it off. And that's to me like a good serve of ashwagandha, a good serve of astragalus, a good serve of good mushrooms, put it all together, have the tea after your morning practice. It flushes the meridian and it de-obstructs the blockages like dishwashing liquid would act on greasy pots.
I like that. Okay so when with the crystalline arrangement, can you explain to me again the process of are we helping to align that crystalline nature or actually clear-
No, we... The clearing of the blockage, the clearing of the crystal means you apply pressure on the crystal.
So that means you put yourself in a... The whole principal of the pyramids, of the Egyptian pyramids is the center of the fire, where it meets, it's about the pressure of the "Phwoar!", you're going right in. When you look at the "Whaaa!" Sorry.
No, go for it.
When it's really deep concentration practice, what you do... Your whole awareness, your consciousness, everything and your body becomes like a pyramid and you're compressing inside the center of fire, and that means that in that moment what you're doing, you're putting... You're applying a three dimensional pressure on the crystal from all different angles, all around. And in that moment if you apply pressure on it, like "Phwooar!" In that moment the energy naturally gets freed and now it shoots out, and now it frees itself. So you keep going, keep going, keep going so the crystal which maybe starts the size of a one inch radius, diameter, and then eventually becomes like a little coin. So initially it starts like the size of an apple, and eventually it becomes the seed of a poppy seed.
Yeah? So if you sit with this, you could de-obstruct the whole body in a sitting of 16 years, according to the knowledge of the Vedas. You can become enlightened in 16 years if you just sit there for 16 years and de-obstruct every blockage. And that moment, enlightenment means, the energy just flushes through your body, according to their view of that whole thing.
So the obstruction is the crystal, the pressure is three dimensional. So that's why it's something we need to be engaged with, so we can't just do it... We need to use the body for that. I mean, some people can do it without a body, but it takes a lot of training. Yeah, some of the Tibetan Buddhists in the Himalaya obviously don't use... But they're so strong. I studied under some of those guys, unbelievable strength. I mean, I'm pretty fit and I look at those guys and my god. It's not like... They don't do this visualization technique that you learn in New Age, you know this...
They're like actually living it and doing it. Effortless effort.
They are in a constant applying pressure on the crystal three dimensional constantly.
They can sit in 40 degrees, minus, just with a loin cloth. And the pressure on the crystal is so strong, it emanates the energy, they are actually hot and they melt the snow. And I've seen those guys and it's unbelievable training. So my training is with the Chen Tai Chi, and it focuses, it does the same thing so when we do the stands we focus and every body becomes like... You just unite with every meridians. So after about 20 minutes you can feel very meridian system, you can feel every blockage and you are just fully engaging with every obstruction, with the main obstruction, and you can feel in that moment you are just completely applying pressure on it.
So this is something we are all trained to do, we are all programmed to do. We just have to introduce to the initial techniques and we will find it. That's the beauty of that. We all have that in our energy field. Everyone who is physical form, in human body, already has the instructions in their energy body how to do this. You just have to start.
You just have to start and not think about it too much. You just have to... Yeah. I mean, that's always my trip up, I'm like "Should I really, should I be doing that technique, should I move on from that technique a little bit, maybe that's not..." And I'm like sitting down and just watching myself... And it's not even sabotage, it's well intended to an extent but it's just... You overthink it and it's just like "Dude, just do something."
But before we start the practice, we are always dominated, our awareness, we are thinking, we are in the body. So, when we start the practice, we are in the body. Of course we don't want to do it.
You just... I've never had a day, I've never had a morning I woke up and said "I can't wait to get into it." Every morning it's a struggle, it's a battle. Because you wake up, you're in the energy field. Now you don't want to get up. This is why the Chinese called it "From the senses, to mind, to Qi." So when I wake up, every morning, I get immediately confronted with the sensory. What it means is, I don't want to get up, I want to give in to the pleasure of sleeping, I want to roll over, I want to stay in bed, I want to give into my senses. So I know I have to use my mind, to push against it. And my mind says, "I have to do business, I have to do work." Yes? So that's the step, that gets you out of bed.
However, the Taoists say, "From the senses, to the mind, to Qi." So, meaning, we wake up, we resist the senses, that means we don't give into the pleasure to stay in bed. We use the mind to get up. But now we're using the mind to move towards Qi. So we don't use the mind to go to work, we don't use the mind to get to the computer and write, we don't use the mind to go on Instagram. We don't use the mind to argue with other people. We use the mind to force the body into a posture. And once the body gets into a posture, automatically, you start de-obstructing the meridian fields. Now the intuitive understanding is coming into it, that means I'm starting to feel good.
Yes? So, now I understand what to do, I can follow. But I can't follow unless I'm in there. Of course, every morning it's the battle from the senses, to the mind, to chi. In the Western world this is the real battle because for getting out of bed, then you have to battle business.
Or social obligations, communications....
You have to battle... Yeah, it's like the mind wants to immediately ride, get involved, do stuff. Because when I wake up, I finally get out of bed, I immediately want to "Oh I've got this idea, I want to write this down, I want to go on my iPad and write this idea down, I'm just awesome, I've got this perfect understanding... I've got to write this." Of course I want to check my emails. But no! From the mind, to Qi. So I use the mind to put the body into the posture that allows piezoelectricity to happen, that means I de-obstruct the blockages.
Once I de-obstruct the blockages, I now go into Qi. Now I am soul awareness, of course, and now I... That's joy and once I'm in there, I don't want to stop. Difficult to start, very difficult to stop.
And then you need to use your mind like "All right, come back down to earth, mate!"
That's why I'm always late, because once I'm in there, I can't stop. I'm always late, for the Bangalow festival, supposed to be there at a certain time. I'm always late because I'm fully immersed in my Qi, in my practice. I can't just lie, "Yeah, I've got plenty of time."
Plenty of time. It's too good. But when I wake up, oh I don't want to do this. And then when I'm in there, oh this is good, I don't want to stop.
Do you share practices from your Tai Chi lineage and do you share the forms or the postures anywhere outside of a workshop?
I have a lineage I follow, I follow the Chen Village.
Do you teach that?
No, I don't teach it.
Oh you don't teach it, right, right.
I study Tai Chi, and I practice. So my lineage is Chen Tai chi and that's the oldest Tai Chi, that's the original Tai chi.
Yeah, that's how it was fascinating when we got into that last podcast, yeah.
I just tell everyone, just give it a try.
How would they give it a try?
Yeah, well the beauty of that is there are Chen schools everywhere these days.
They're everywhere. You just pull it up on Google, it comes up. 50 years ago, you couldn't find it.
It just exploded, didn't it.
This is the best time to live because you can find access to any technique anywhere. There are courses about Qigong like for $9 or $14 on Udemy. It's mind boggling. There are masters who are showing you every move. Like Chen Xiaowang, one of the greatest master in the history, Tai Chi master, his power is unbelievable. And you can constantly research him on YouTube. 30 years ago, for hundreds of years ago, it was fiercely guarded. Now it's available for everyone.
Boom! It just opened, yeah.
We live in... We've got everyone, everything is available. So everyone's got a smart phone, so on a click and on a swipe of a digital device, you have instant access to the latest technique.
It's insane, that's insane. That's how I feel. Sometimes I walk into the warehouse here, and I look at the herbs sitting on the shelf, and I know the story... The adventure over thousands of years, of that herb. Thousands and thousands of that thing in a particular little area, the hermit's understanding it and working with it to... Maybe there's a village or some grandmothers who just hold onto ensuring that they know how to go and harvest it and introduce it to their children, and the family. And then all of a sudden it becomes famous and the Emperor's just send out and horde all of the reishi mushroom or all of whatever it is. And then Mao coming in, somewhat beginning to destroy the Taoist approach to herbalism. Yet there is just a couple of masters who bring it through, and then one of those masters teaches it to a student that goes over to America.
Then all of a sudden someone "Boom! Bang!" And all of a sudden... Not realizing as well that the people who have guarded these lineages and these martial arts and these herbal practices and even just growing methods, really fiercely the integrity. Which is sometimes the hardest thing to do but yet you still just have to get involved, get an understanding of the terrain and then you can learn what quality movement and quality herbs... You just get a little bit of understanding, you just need to get moving to begin with. And then all of a sudden, we've got astragalus, ginseng-
But, everywhere! I look at how many-
I saw it in IGA the other day.
That's like, well some IGA's-
A big bottle of astragalus, I couldn't believe it!
In Maleny, where were you?
No that was in Sunshine Coast, in IGA! Beside toilet paper!
Far out. I mean, that's like when the first... I think Maleny was an IGA that two years ago, they asked me to come and do a talk, and they had sold like 150 tickets through IGA to come and learn. And I wasn't told... I'm kind of, we'll have to... We should do an event together one day. But when I do my talks, I'm probably similar to you, you just start and like "Ba ba ba ba ba." But I'm not going, reishi is good for this, we'd go on through Jing Qi Shen and each have a little chat about it. And there we are sitting there with a supermarket conversation, supermarket customers coming in and learning about this stuff. It was mind-boggling. And to be able to get Di Tao like wild oak reishi, spring fed reishi from high mountains around places like Darby Mountains in IGA's in Maleny, IGA's in supermarkets all over the place. And for a mum of four to whose here living in the suburbs of Australia to be getting access to these Jing herbs and then at the same time they can put away five minutes to study one of the most ancient Tai Chi practices in the world because they just went and had a look on YouTube. Phwaor!
We are so inundated with choice as well, that is what trips people up is that there is some much choice and so many, like, "Am I going to pick the right path?" It's just like, "Just get going!"
Just get going, yeah.
Far out, you just got to get going. And every month you have to remind yourself of that, right? Or every day, you kind of need to start afresh, yeah?
It doesn't matter where you start, whatever makes the most sense to you and whatever you are most drawn to. I would always say the easier way is to just get herbs, get energizing herbs first.
What are your top energizing herbs?
I would probably always say if you want to get the ball rolling, get astragalus as your base. Astragalus has to be your basic. Then you want astragalus and rehmannia with it. And then siberian ginseng, or maybe ren shen, which is like... because according to my observation, the tens of thousands of people I've worked with in my time, and it's 40 years spanning now. That combination helps everyone.
Yeah. The beauty of the ashwagandha and astragalus combinations and the rehmannia is that they actually adapt to the situation. So if you've got too much Yang, it's going to focus on the Yin first. So if you're too hyper, you're going to get sleepy first.
Well that's an interesting thing with ren shen especially, but even astragalus. But people go, well with astragalus people go like "Okay this is an energizing tonic," and they get on to it and like "Bzzzzz..." and they're like "This was supposed to give me energy," it's like, "Sorry, mate, it's too intelligent. It knows what you bloody need, and it's taken you in that direction."
It's so intelligent. And the Veda's say that ashwagandha can actually be taken by itself. My personal view on that, I find it works best if you have a combination of ashwagandha, astragalus, rehmannia and ren shen.
Well generally with those really strong Jing tonics you need a Qi tonic there to keep everything moving.
For me it works because then you've got the Spleen, Stomach, Lung combination in there too. And then you can put the mushrooms with it, and then we get onto the mushrooms, the reishi, the cordyceps, and obviously my favorite one, the lion's mane.
Yeah, you love it, eh?
Yeah, should be every day, everyone.
That's good. We've already stocked up on lion's mane but I want you to try, I've got a... I don't know whether it'll be out by the time this podcast comes out but I've got a Qi blend coming out with codonopsis, white atractolydes, astragalus, poria, bit of gynostemma in there, turkey tail, and some jujube and I'd like to get your feedback on that.
Yeah, it's really important, all this stuff is... The reason I'm saying all that is, once you start with herbs, you get a feel good very quickly, and if you feel good, you feel inspired to do things. So if you go to Tai Chi school, to a class as your initial step and move, you may get bored very quickly, because it's such a slow learning curve. And then you give up very quickly, so I'm always like, do the radical approach first. I've always liked doing things radical, like just whack it, cause some chaos, yeah.
Or feel that it works.
Yeah, go feel it.
I'm like that big time as well. I used to say this all the time to people, whether it's with physical practice or herbs, or hydration even, little things like that. I call it activating the placebo. So with these herbs people are like "Do they work?" I'm like, "Well, let's think about it. Over at least five thousands years these herbs have been used, and there are tens of thousands of herbs used in China and out of those there's like 50 herbs which are considered tonic. That are, as you were saying, the messengers from heaven that are helping us to basically clear blockages. And they can just be taken every day, simple, not about symptoms, they work.
Yeah. I'm glad that I have now turned 60, I'm 61 years of age, because I can actually use my body as an example that it works.
Yeah for sure.
And, when I was 40 and telling everyone herbs are good, I didn't have really much weighing in my work because I was still young and fit. But once you turn 50, 55, aging hits you. And that's when you know that those herbs work. Men at the age of 60, they know. They've got the aging. There's very few who really are very fit and healthy.
There's even few within the community that are practicing herbs and Qigong, because it just goes and shows that you can't just do the herbs, you can't just do movement. Your whole life needs to be engaged in this practice, right.
Yes. But a good way to get started with that is with herbs. But when people say "Do they work," that's what I'm trying to say. Look at people who are in their sixties and seventies who have been taking herbs for a long time, there are the examples. Don't go by what papers say. I remember that when I was at College and studied Chinese Medicine, over 30 years ago, I already realised I need to take herbs every day. Intuitive understanding for my practice. And then I thought "You can't do this every day, you've got to stop, this is...
Yeah, just like, bang. I just followed my own intuitive understanding.
Yeah, and so I'm at the level now where I can prove to people it works. So I say, "Look, this is my body at 61 years of age. I'm able to transform all kind of symptoms because of the herbs." So I tell everyone, if you want to get guidance by herbs, and you're not sure if they work, look at those who have been taking herbs for a long time. And you will see a different person. I can tell people who take herbs, they look different. They've got different skin. My skin is not someone who is the ordinary 60. And it's not because of genetics, it's got nothing to do with this, because my father died very early. So I don't have the genes for longevity.
You don't have the Jing?
That's what there... I actually got the opposite, I got weak Jing. I got a lot of injuries, I got like all kind of crippling injuries in my knees from when I was hard in sport. So, the fact that I constantly transform my symptoms, I actually an example, I can see the proof of this medicine. So if someone doubts it, then I say "Okay, compare a 60 year old or a 70 year old person who takes herbs regular with someone who doesn't. You've got entirely different skin, entirely different body, entirely different muscular structure, entirely different ability to transform symptoms." Because health is the ability to transform symptoms. Health is not the absence of symptoms, that's what people misunderstand. They always look at me and think, "Oh, you don't have the issues that I have." I said, "Fuck, man, I've got heaps of issues. But I transform them." And I do lots of herbs to transform them. Lots. Not like a little bit. My car is full with, there's herbs everywhere, you should look in my bag, there's herbs everywhere. I take herbs every three hours, I take always somethings, there's always something. I take bamboo, then I take a bit of hoelen then I take a major four. I'm always something, I'm always wheeling and dealing my body with maybe a little bit of this, maybe a little bit of that. Always a little bit. Consistency. Always just, maybe three flowers.
Yeah, I was thinking about maybe... It's such a nice way to invite the plants and the mushrooms and the flowers and the barks into you-
Yeah, they're a part of your life. They're given to us.
They're given to us in order to strengthen us. It's just like in Taoist philosophy the herbs are superior to food, it's the most important thing. Eventually the Taoist masters stopped food at all and only do herbs. I don't want to go that way because I love eating, but I don't use food to balance Yin and Yang, I use my herbs. Yeah, of course I eat essential foods. I always have a good breakfast out of grain. I always loved oats, I have good grains every day, I have good protein source every day and I enjoy and I eat really good cakes few times a week and I love good coffee. So I feast.
I live it.
"I feast," yeah.
So I'm not into the juice diets, I'm not into fasting, I do intermittent fasting?
Intermittent fasting, I do.
You do, right.
Yeah, I do intermittent fasting, I always have 12 hours between eating, every day.
So you're doing breakfast and dinner?
So I stop about, say I stop 8:00pm eating, I don't eat until 8:00am next day, or 9:00am.
Oh okay, right.
So, I usually have a minimum of 12 hours to 13 hours. That is the natural... If you follow your intuitive understanding, that is, if you become healthy, that means if you de-obstruct your blockages, you naturally become healthy, you then develop intuitive understanding. If you develop intuitive understanding, you naturally want to do intermittent fasting naturally. You actually don't want to eat. So I have my breakfast, say I have my breakfast at 8:00am or 9:00am, then my last meal is at 8:00pm, then I don't eat until 9:00am or 8:00am, something like that.
So I make sure that it's 12 hours minimum that the body is completely free of food.
I like that, I think that's sensible intermittent fasting. Sometimes it goes a little bit longer if you're vibing it, but otherwise than I-
Make sure it's never less than 12 hours, and never fast in between, so that's it.
So I don't do like three day fasts and things like that. And I don't do any diet fads, I don't do keto, I don't do vegan, I don't follow any diet fad, I just follow what my body tells me and I know exactly when it's time for me to eat meat because my energy body tells me. And I know exactly when it's time not for me to eat meat.
The interesting thing about that which I like about... It's simple, it's you, it's honest, it's raw, but it's something that can't be so capitalized on in social media. Intuitive eating, people are trying to be like #intuitiveeating, but you can't show it. It's not like-
Because it's your personal journey.
Exactly, like keto and vegan, it's what, carnivore. Full respect. People want to have a little bit of a bout, like on one of these diets, absolutely go for it. But I think that it's one of the ultimate anchors for health, if you've gone five years, 10 years and you're still needing to use a term or an identification with what your diet is, you've got to move on.
Well, my observation, I've been 40 years in this now. I've been following the path of health for 40 years and my perception, I tell everyone, you don't need keto diet. Consistency is the key. If you are consistent everyday, de-obstruct your blockages, you don't need keto diet. The intuitive understanding that will be developed as a result of that is you will know what to eat, when to eat.
I think even if you're there and keto makes sense, and you're really enjoying it, just drop the word and keep on going, and see what else there is for you.
Yes, if you live correctly, intermittent fasting, and you do hardcore de-obstruction every morning, you always induce ketosis anyway.
Yeah, I know, it's true. Yeah.
That's the thing. It's a natural process. There's not much point giving it a name, as you pointed out, there's absolutely no point. Because I do ketosis every morning because the blood sugar provision, the sugar is only for the first nine hours while you sleep, as soon as I get up and go into hardcore practice, the sugar is gone within half an hour. If you proper training, and then you have a few hours still to go. You're not using sugars, you're actually in ketosis. So the Chinese understood that already thousands of years ago, they gave us the practices. If you follow the practices, you are in ketosis every day without knowing that you do keto.
Mm-hmm (affirmative) yeah without the knowledge of it. I mean at the same time, I get it. I get how useful it is if someone has got a corporate job and-
It confuses people.
Oh it does that as well, but some people just love it, they love a label. I got to remember that some people are early on in the journey as well sometimes, they need that package deal. I always am just hitting it out there, just release that package deal and you've really encapsulated that intuitive nature.
Yeah. The problem is, with every diet fad, you regulate one aspect of Yin and Yang but you always harm the other aspect of Yin and Yang.
In Chinese Medicine we always Yin and Yang, never yin or yang. Keto focuses on something, a special aspect of Yang but it harms the Yin. I've seen so much damage with this stuff. Of course you get immediate results, but I'm thinking long term.
Exactly! It is.
Consistency. I'm thinking 30 years ahead.
Would you agree with this-
Not five years ahead, 30 years ahead.
That's, boom, that's it. 30 years ahead is the only way that you're actually going to make something sustainable.
40, 50 next lifetime! So I actually think 30 lifetimes ahead. So if your keto diet helping you lifetimes in 30 years, that's the key.
Well that's interesting there, I think it's a good question. I'm not that much of a, when it goes into the full cosmology of... Whether we're talking Vedas or Taoism. I've toned back my nature, I'm not so much of a tripper anymore, not that I'm against the real far out ideas. But if something is useful, then I will go along with it, but otherwise I don't really know what's going on at the cosmic level or the spiritual level. I've got my senses and ideas, but I'm not going to... I don't know, I'll see where I get to with my experience. But the one thing that really helps me is the idea that in this life you're preparing for death, of course, in every tradition that's an amazing... like Tahnee, my fiancee, that's like her full focus, even at the moment, is just like preparation for death.
And for me, the visualization that we've sprung ourselves and we coil in, get that ball of fire and that crystal really squished down, and we're really nice and tight and aware of ourself for when we do die, that you go... You unfurl and "Bang!" You are going to shoot off into the cosmos and into your next adventure. That really helps me focus, that idea more than anything else. What I'm doing now, what my lifestyle looks like, what my business looks like, the types of herbs I'm taking, if I can feel it contributing to that nature, then I'm like "Ooh yeah, I'm on a good track."
What I wanted to ask is with fanaticism and ideology, I quite often had just seen little bits of literature on how that would be associated with a Jing deficiency in some way, being extra susceptible to needing an ideology. Would that tie into the fact that if you have an extreme Yin Jing deficiency or Yang Jing deficiency, you're going to go and look for an extreme ideology or diet to balance that out?
Yes, yes of course, because if a Yin is deficient... The Jing becomes deficient if the connection to the energy body is disrupted. So that is how Chinese Medicine looks at it. Because Jing is an ethereal substance, it's not a physical substance. Of course, we take mushrooms to enhance the Jing, but what it actually does, it opens up the meridian pathway, the Kidney meridian to the energy organ and then allows that energy to come in. And that energy is now connected to the universe. So mushrooms have the ability to do that. So mushrooms open up the connection to the energy field, which then opens up to the cosmic Qi. So that's how it comes in. So it's not that, it's not the energy in the herb, it's the meridian that opens up. So in Chinese Medicine, we always talk about how it activates the meridian. So, certain herbs open up certain meridians, that means if it opens up the meridians, it goes to the energy organ, that means now you've got the internet connection to a lot of other information. But then that energy organ is directly connected to the cosmic Qi so that's how the cosmic chi is coming in.
So if I'm obsessed in ideologies, I actually don't have enough support from the energy field. Because the energy field is my complete nature, is my infinite nature, it sees the bigger picture, it doesn't get trapped in the little things because it's moving towards its dimension, whatever it is moving towards. So it's an endless bliss, that's the soul. So if I get, if I don't have connection to my energy organ, I then, the physical becomes dominating, I need physical ideas, analysis, thoughts and ideas to rectify my situation because the physical by itself is not complete, because we are Yin and Yang, we are spirit and physical. So if I don't have connection to my energy field, I feel something is not right, and now I get anxiety, and now I'm going to look at what's wrong. And now I'm going to look at what makes sense.
Yeah. What makes it right, how do I fix myself.
Yeah, what makes sense. So the solution is always get connected to your energy field. How do you get connected to your energy field? Start de-obstructing the meridians, how do you start de-obstructing the meridians? Take herbs.
Yeah. And I mean, that's something... It's a very interesting thing you bring up, and it's hard for me to communicate at times, and I think I do a good enough job, but I'm like... The whole reason I got attracted to Taoist tonic herbalism is because they weren't obsessed with the constituents and it giving our bodies something so our body could use it. Tonic herbalism is exactly what you just said. We are unblocking where the energy is stuck. So it is inherently not... The herb is helping, and being an ingredient. However, through the experience of, say, taking Jing herbs, a lot of the Jing herbs are helping to unobstruct the Liver Qi, right? So that, then, and as well as ensuring that the Kidney Water is flowing. So a lot of the time you're going to see that the Liver is... and if you unobstruct the Liver Qi, right, then of course the mother, the Kidney Water, is also going to be full. Because if the child of the... I know you know this, but that whole path, that whole nature of a Jing herb... The Jing herb isn't giving you the Jing. It is revealing to you your ability to experience your own Jing essence, and the connection and the foundation of energy that's possible.
Yeah, it opens up the fuel holes to the petrol tank.
But again it's so beautiful, because it-
The energy is already there, but it's not hooked into.
Yeah. That's you.
It's already there.
That's already there.
It's already there but the herbs open up the meridians. That means now the connection is opened up. It's like you've got a petrol tank full but there's no holes to it.
Well it's even, I liked what you were saying about your movement practice, helping you unobstruct the blockages in the meridian through your physical practice. Because I tell people, when you take... because Jing is always the one, and the mushrooms. When they get onto the Jing formula, they, I think you've seen it as well, people go "Oh man, I'm feeling my energy come back online," and I'm like "Make sure you take some time to really feel and observe yourself coming back online during that time," because then after like two months, three months, four months, you've activated a placebo, because you know they work. Then I take away the Jing herbs. Can you still go through that journey internally?
No, you need both.
You do need both. But I mean, even more so in the sense of-
You absolutely need both. I know exactly what you mean, and I experimented that in depth, I looked it up, I researched it myself, and there's a lot of people I worked with. And so, in Chinese martial art training and Chinese herbalism, you never stop herbs. You change herbs.
Right. Well it's even a mentality thing though, to know that it's you.
[crosstalk 01:15:56] and then you activate something, and then you go elsewhere.
Yeah, all right.
But you're always doing something.
Look, I mean, personally I'm taking a lot of herbs every single day and because I'm selling the herbs, it's interesting for me to go like, "How do you frame this to ensure that, remember the herbs aren't giving you the thing."
Yeah, this is where intuitive understanding comes in, which is like, you just said, spiral that goes around because it needs the herbs in order to develop into the understanding, okay?
So, what happens is, for example, with my herbs, I don't take the same herb every day. So for example, say you used an example of a Jing herb, I don't take the Jing herb every day. I take different things every day. So, how do I know what to take? That's simply after my practice, I know. I know exactly. So if I would, for example with astragalus, with ashwagandha, astragalus combination, if that herbal commodation, I know exactly that if I take it five days, I know exactly when the day comes I can't take it. And I don't take it. And then it's all right because to a certain degree, that rights the Yang, but then you have to bring the Yang down so to bring the Yin up, and then you bring the Yin down a little bit and bring the Yang up. So it's like a constant play of Yin and Yang. We already intuitively understand that in the morning we drink coffee, in the evening we drink wine.
Yes? So, you wouldn't have wine in the morning and coffee in the evening.
Because you just feel it, you feel you don't want it, don't you, yeah.
You can give it a try to see what happens.
I mean, every now and then I like to pretend I'm in Game of Thrones and have an ale for breakfast.
So this is where we already regulate anyway.
Yeah we do.
So the herbs are designed to bring either the Yang up or the Yin up, and we just... the more you work with it, the more it will come to you. But it's not something you can learn from a book, it needs to be... You need to actually practice, you need to take it. And you need to start, and once you start, it will guide you. And after a while, you know exactly what to take. The example I always use is a drug addict, when you start taking drugs, when you had your first joint, you're not getting instructions with a joint, what are you going to do for the next five years, nor do you buy for the next five years. Nor do you buy some drugs and then the drug dealer is going to call you up in two days, "Have you taken your drugs yet?" So what happens is, you develop an intuitive understanding how to take the drugs.
So, of course, the same with drinking. So when we start drinking we skull a whole bottle of vodka and then we vomit, then we realise the next time we go to the party, we drink by instinct one sip at a time so we can last twelve hours. So everything in life is like that. When we start young at sex we're just going to ram it, we come straight away, finished, oh that's not good, you know? So the whole thing. So we learn how to work with our Jing, we learn how to work with our Yang, and so the intuitive understanding comes from practice.
But the beauty with herbs is that the intuitive understanding comes as you become healthier. So it always comes down, back to the answer, what develops intuitive understanding? Become healthier.
Yeah, for sure.
If you're unhealthy, you're not intuitive.
Simple as that, folks.
How simple it is. If you're not healthy, you're not intuitive. You just have some folks running around, but that means it's not an intuitive understanding. Intuitive understanding comes from your soul, it's a soul awareness. So that's an entirely different world. In order for your soul to be giving you instructions, or for your soul to be regulating your thoughts, you need to be healthy. Because that means you have a direct connection to your soul, that's what health is. So my definition of health is direct connection to the soul. So that means I've got now instant transformation of soul energy to rejuvenate the body. That's longevity, that fixes the symptom.
So how do I develop the connection to my soul? By de-obstructing the meridian. How do I do that? By every morning start the day with practice, you've got to practice. Large intestine time, lung time, that's why everyone in the East gets up early, to practice. The earlier you get up, the better for the practice, the more you clear out. How do you do that? You move from senses, to the mind, to Qi. You have to resist the senses to go back to bed. You have to resist the mind to go for your phone and to your email. You have to go to Qi. So if you need to be up at work for 6am, you have to get up one hour earlier. It's essential for living, it's a part. With being human comes obligation, and the obligation of the human is to free our blockages. If the whole planet frees the blockages, we are in Paradise.
Mm-hmm (affirmative), far out.
If everyone would wake up early to free the blockages, we would have... There would be no trouble, we wouldn't have wars, everything would be fine because we are old souls. So that's what we are moving towards, the whole earth is moving towards that heaven on earth. So we are creating the ultimate earth, and the ultimate earth requires for humans to understand how to de-obstruct the blockages. So that every morning when they wake up, first of all free the blockages, now the soul is coming in. Now take herbs to keep the blockage free. Now I'm taking the right foods to nurture the physical body, and that means by the end of the day I feel happy, I feel joyful, this is awesome. I'm a good person, without even knowing. I'm not deliberate, I don't need to project, I don't have to go to health fairs and project to be a saint, I am saint.
Mm-hmm (affirmative) yeah. Because that imposter syndrome is real and it's very insidious, you've got to be careful. Because once you start, you go in and you start being consistent with your practice and you get hydrated and your food starts rocking and then all of a sudden you get pulled... It's like with yoga teachers. I remember, I'm a yoga teacher, when you start teaching yoga and you're doing it a lot, all of a sudden the first thing that gets sacrificed is your own practice. And then all of a sudden, because you've sacrificed your practice and your health because you're feeling this new healer embodiment, then all of a sudden you're starting to go over in your mind because you're not practicing anymore and you project. So it's like, "All right, everyone, come on, be in it for the long haul, just working on your health now so the 30 years after your death you can be rocking in a really nice and healthy." So that you get consistent, you don't have to get into that projection and that imposter syndrome, you're just a nice person now, effortlessly.
That's been the most interesting thing talking about today is not trying to be a nice person.
It's not needed, because the soul is already nice.
Yeah, you're inherently nice.
We already are good, we are already nice people. It's just that when we are in the physical, when we have blockages and when those blockages aren't cleared, we are assholes.
Yeah, we're assholes. That's why I love reishi so much. Reishi mushroom just helping people open the Heart a little bit, get the Liver flowing, become less of an asshole.
Yeah, that would be good marketing.
I say it all the time. It's the one thing-
"Stop being an asshole, take reishi!"
That's the one thing of mine that's been quoted and that I've seen a few degree away from me and not attributed to myself. Just one of those things that just, "Reishi mushroom, helping you become less of an asshole." And I'm like, "Yes, I'm glad that ones out there, because if any herbs going to help someone to do it, it's that bloody mushroom."
Absolutely, medicinal mushrooms are absolutely essential. And then, you'll be guided by then, they guide you.
Yeah, I agree. And what you said... You talked about the internet, it's just like a macrocosm in a microcosm in a macrocosm, they're the internet of the forest, they can help that internet within us, that connectivity within us that bypasses, that transcends the internet.
My last advice is do not give into theories. I notice so many people are confused. Like the talk I did yesterday, so many people came up, "I'm confused about this diet, I'm confused about that." There's eight billion people on this planets, there's eight billion ideas how to live. Just don't follow any of those ideas. Clear your blockages by practice, by taking some herbs, and you will be guided. You don't need that other stuff. And then you will suddenly understand how this information that circulates, how you can work with that. If you have an intuitive understanding, you will know how to work with this information. If you don't have an intuitive understanding, it's going to be very difficult to work with that information.
So good. Man, I think a bunch of people might not have heard last episode, so, best place to find you, website?
And, man, your Instagram is rocking at the moment. Definitely recommend that everyone go get into the Instagram, it's just jostsauer.
Yeah, Jost Sauer.
So just, yeah, Jost Sauer. J O S T, you'll find him, we'll put all the links... Yeah, and you have a bunch of really good resources, I'll get those resources and put them in notes. Are you up on the sunny coast now?
Yeah, I live on the sunny coast, Sunshine Coast, I live in Buddina.
Oh yeah, that's nice up there.
And I like it. I mean, I like it here too.
It's not time yet, you were saying last time.
I like it here also but I like also the Sunshine Coast, I like both places, and obviously you can't be in both places at once so maybe one day we can.
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Have you got your practice up there?
I've got a cute little clinic under private one on ones. Most of my time is obviously dedicated to putting new information down in books, big book format and new books and this sort of stuff but I always see people because it's my nature, I need to see people.
That's cool. Have you got doing the Body Clock number two book?
Yeah, we've got quite a few books in the making.
And there's a lot of other issues to look at.
Yeah, okay. What was the name of the book again?
Clock on to Health.
That's right, Clock on to Health. I think I was telling you about it, our last episode was one of the ones that really went around the office.
I tell everyone, just get that book, because everything is in there, like how to work with the organs, how to develop intuitive understanding.
That's really great, I mean, that's just a really simple idea to follow.
Because intuitive understanding doesn't come naturally, you have to develop the skill, it's a skill. And it's derived from being healthy, and being healthy is derived from clearing the blockages, so that's a system, there's a system. So intuitive understanding, if you want to teach it, those steps need to be taught, how to become healthy.
I definitely recommend everyone gets that book, yeah, it's been in and out of our little library here, yeah, everyone is loving it. So hopefully we'll be getting our asses a little bit healthier. I'll pick up the herbs, I've got them all on tap here, so it's definitely inspired me to pick it up a little bit more. Man, brilliant.
Yeah, thank you, mate.