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Boom. So, we dove in deep with Eddie Enever on the brutal reality of chronic disease, specifically cancer. The big kicker is that it's not just a physical problem, is it? He frames itโand this is a real stake in the groundโas a "disease of disconnection," forcing you right up against your own mortality. Having walked that gnarly path himself, from Stage 1 all the way to Stage 4, Eddie's insight as a practitioner is monumental.
The absolute linchpin, the central theme we hit on, is agencyโgetting your sovereignty back. Itโs about taking total, personal control over your healing. No more abdicating your power to the doctor's orders, and definitely no spiritual bypassing with a purely "woo-woo" approach. Eddie's clear: first priority is stabilizing the physical body with real-world treatments and protocolsโthe โcurative path.โ But for true, lasting, deep-seated healing? That requires the โdeeper journey,โ the โhealing path,โ where you actually ask what those โlumps and bumps mean in the context of your whole damn life.โ
We're talking about sorting out the underlying nervous system stress, the anxiety, and the whole biography of how you came to โdo what you do the way that you do.โ Without hitting that deeper inquiry, without shifting the conditions that birthed the disease in the first place, relapse is a high-probability reality. Eddie is awesome for reframing cancer, removing the โoh shit, what have I done?โ self-blame by calling it a โmulti-generational injury.โ It shifts the focus squarely onto the patientโs responsibility and their innate capacity to heal. The takeaway here is huge: a patientโs total conviction, their full, all-in investment in whatever path they chooseโbe it the conventional, the holistic, or a mix of bothโcan genuinely account for 50-60% of the outcome. That's the monumental power we each hold over our own prognosis.
Key Takeaways:
- Chronic Disease is Everywhere: Chronic illness rates are alarmingly high, calling for deeper awareness beyond statistics.
- Two Journeys of Healing: Healing requires both medical treatment (physical) and inner work (psychological/spiritual).
- Agency is the Linchpin: Taking personal ownership of the healing journey is critical for better outcomes.
- Avoid Spiritual Bypassing: Donโt rely only on spiritual practicesโaddress both physical and inner aspects.
- Cancer as Disconnection/Injury: Seen as a disconnection or inherited โinjury,โ shifting focus from blame to healing.
- Power of Conviction: Strong belief in oneโs treatment can significantly influence outcomes.
- Right Medicine, Right Time: Healing is personalโeach individual must find what works best for them. About Eddie:
Who is Eddie Enever?
Eddie Enever is an Australian integrative health practitioner working at the intersection of metabolic oncology, functional medicine, and psychotherapy.
With over 16 years of clinical experience, and as a three-time cancer survivor himself, Eddie brings a rare blend of professional expertise and lived experience to his work with people navigating cancer, chronic illness, and complex health challenges. His approach centers on helping patients move beyond a purely tumor-focused model of care. Instead, he guides them to understand cancer as a whole-body, terrain-based condition influenced by metabolism, immune function, stress biology, and environment.
Through one-on-one consulting, workshops, and online programs, Eddie supports patients and their families to take an active, informed role in their care. His work focuses on restoring metabolic resilience, improving treatment tolerance, and helping people create conditions for better long-term outcomesโphysically, mentally, and emotionally.
Eddie is also the founder of BEYOND Prognosis, a free online community for people navigating cancer and healing. The platform brings together patients, practitioners, and loved ones for weekly live Q&As, educational resources, and practical discussions on integrative cancer care, treatment support, and recovery.
Resource guide
Learn more about Eddie's work, resources, and consulting: eddieenever.com
Join the BEYOND Prognosis community: beyondprognosis.circle.so/join?
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Check Out The Transcript Below:
Mason:
Boom. G'day, Eddie.
Eddie:
Hello?
Mason:
How you doing, man?
Eddie:
Good, man, I'm excited, I'm excited for this.
Mason:
Yeah, likewise, yeah, shout out to Kyle for giving us the info.
Eddie:
I just wish we had a record when we were chatting on the phone the other day, because, you know, we're talking about some pretty epic stuff, but Do it again today.
Mason:
Yeah, learned to put a couple of stakes in the ground to remember what to cover. Yeah, it's always nice, the vettingโฆ it'd be a funnyโฆ I don't know how to do it yet, maybeโฆ in, like, what's it called? What does everyone have on the back of their podcast that's, like, a members-only? The Patreon. Oh, yeah. Like, a Patreon, where you're likeโฆ and here you can hear the vetting conversation that we have.
Eddie:
The vetting and the juicy stuff, and yeah.
Mason:
Yeah, I mean, that was like, yeah, we were, you know, we were talking about allโฆ getting into the plant medicine, and, you know, that whole side of things, and the integration of the mushrooms and the ayahuasca intoโฆ maybe we'll touch on it if you guys are inโฆ and if you want to hear the whole interview, you can sign up to my new Patreon, which I'm sure I've set up in the meantime, everybody, and pay $2 a month, andโฆ The nice thing about this podcast, it's off the back of the company, SuperFeast, so I don't have toโฆ it's always just, like, a nice adjunct to everything that's going on within the herbs, and everyone that's just trying to protect their treasures, and their jing, qi, and shen, and get a little bit of sovereignty around their health, and so this podcast just kind ofโฆ
Tax on to any kind of conversation of everyone that's trying to reduce degeneration early onset, get really metabolically on, and, you know, make sure they enter into adulthood, but of course, you know, there's the nature of those, you know, degenerative diseases and things that pop up as everyone comes along. If not you, it's gonna be a family member or a loved one, orโฆ something, so I really appreciate you coming on and having a chat, man.
Eddie:
That's a pleasure, man. Like, the rates, like you say, of chronic disease are insane. You know, like, you think cancer's, like, 43% of the Australian population. That's basically 1 and 2, let's just say.
Mason:
you know, that's one person in every couple, that's two people in every family of four are going to be touched by it, you know, in their life. And so, it's important to have conversations like this just to raise awareness on, like.
Eddie:
what the deal is, you know, you know, treatments, prevention, you know, what it means when you're met with something like this, whether it's a cancer diagnosis or an autoimmune condition or depression, whatever, like, these are huge things, and if we get more conversations and people being vulnerable and actually exploring this stuff, now it helps everyone. I'm a huge fan of doing this stuff.
Mason:
Well, I mean, like, maybe if you're new here, you don't know, but if you've been around for a while, you might haveโฆ apologies if you heard me say this, but I've got a bunch of source essence moments that happened to me that gave birth to the organization, and I've had to go back and find them. Why did I actually create this thing in the first place? But one of themโฆ The first one was when I was 14, and it was the lightning struck, and I was in the, I listened to the radio on the way to work, and I was on Manash Road in Gladesville, in Sydney, just in case anyone wants to go back and actually understand the geography of it. And the radio was doing statistics and disease, and it was, like, one in two people, and they're gonna get cancer, andโฆ 1 in 3 women are gonna get diabetes, and two in three men are gonna get diabetes. And I was just going through it, and I was likeโฆ
and it was just been droned out. And I was like, is this not more alarming? And I went through this big internal thing, and I wasโฆ personally, I was, like, just, like, I was, like, crossing my fingers that I didn't care about me at that stage, and I think it's natural at 14 to think about it, but I was crossing my fingers about my parents, and then I was like, because I was into, like, watching Hook at the time, you know, I was like, I wanted to go to Neverland. And I was reading Harry Potter, and I always just wanted to go to Hogwarts and learn that I'm not a muggle, and that magic is real. But that was theโฆ and then I was met with this droney statistics of just everyone'sโฆ this many people are gonna get cancer, and then I was ledโฆ it's like, cross the fingers, and that was one of the inception moments for SuperFeast and what I do.
In just how accepted it was, and then they're like, and here's the prevention things once youโฆ
Eddie:
Go and find out.
Mason:
But Iโฆ and I like that, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but at the same time, what you're saying, like. At that moment of diagnosis. like, that's probably the one you just said, like, at that moment of diagnosis, and worlds are rocked, what, like, where do you approach that to begin with? Because that's the kind of thing that's gonna hit everyone at some point.
Eddie:
And if it's, like, in the context of, obviously, cancer and cancer care, like, you're met with your mortality, and maybe that's your first time that you've actually been met with the potential for death. Like, like you say, you remember these keyโฆ key moments. I remember the day that I was told. I was in a radiologist's office getting the ultrasound, and heโฆ he let me know that it was, and I had to go outside to myโฆ my then-wife, who was heavily, heavily pregnant, and just go. Shit, babe. I've got cancer. Like, you don't forget that stuff, and these are, like, such pivotal moments that will stay with you forever, and, like, it'sโฆ what do you do with it, though? You know, you canโฆ You can be absolutely devastated by it, and it is devastating, but you can also, you know, with a bit of insight and a little bit of exploration, you can transform that as well. What did you do?
Pretty freaking hard, pretty fast.
Mason:
What was your reaction?
Eddie:
At the time, you know, it's, I think, dumbness at the beginning. Like, what? I was 33 years old, you know, I was on the prime of my life. You're not supposed to be looking down the barrel of a diagnosis. You know, we, at the time, 33, we had a large health center. We had, 18 practitioners, the alcohol cafe shop, essentially running it all. And for the last 6 years, I've been running it and really, really stressed out. I'm like, that wasn't on the agenda, that wasn't part of the plan. It was 10 days before Christmas, actually. And then it's just like, wow, what isโฆ what does that mean? And then, I call it the oncology train takes off, and it just gets mayhem. It's just chaos. Appointments, and this, and that, and information decisions to be made, and all these things just start coming your way, and like, there's not a lot of breathing room at all, actually.
So, it took a long time, and, like, a lot of that stuff for patients has to get shelved, you know? You're in it, and you're just trying to just survive, andโฆ just stay in there, and sometimes all the stuff that you had to put on the shelf at some point has to come off, and I remember me, like, the emotional burden of the whole thing. You know, I went through a huge 2 years of my journey. I had 3 relapses of my cancer, where it comes back over and over again. I went from stage 1 to stage 4. And I was very close to checking out. Like, I'm a big guy, I'm 6'7", believe it or not, behind the screen. 117 kilos at my worst, I was 84. 84 kilograms. Yeah, I was very tall. Obviously, 6 foot 7 is pretty tall. Looked rough, looked really, really scary. And, you know, like, that emotional burden, I had toโฆ
my marriage breakdown is part of it, unfortunately, and, like, all the stuff that was going on, like, I didn't have time for it, because I was just surviving, and it went up onto that shelf, and eventually it has to come off, and that's generally not during the treatment, that's after. And then that's a whole, whole other story, whole nother conversation to go into, you know, which we spoke to, you know, briefly on the, on the phone, but it's, it's a big one, man, to be met with mortality. You know, why? Why me?
Mason:
inโฆ so when you're working with someone, do you get contacted at those moments of that diagnosis or prognosis? Like, what do youโฆ do you have a framework for those things that get popped onto the shelf? Because I'veโฆ I've watchedโฆ you know, I've been through somewhat, you know, like, my mum having an aneurysm, bit different, real, you know, heavy, like, surgery, but, you know, like, you're on, it's not like a degeneration, it's like the degeneration's happened and you're in. But when it's something like a cancer diagnosis, or, like, MS, or whatever it is, but you're working with people with cancer, like, when they contact you at that moment, and they're in that chaos, I knowโฆ I've known a lot of friends that take solace in that there's nothing I can do, I'm just gonna go to my appointments and make those decisions that are presented to me, andโฆ
Maybe that's the beauty of the system, that there's too much to go through the mind and the spirit at that point, so things get shelved. Is there somewhat of a framework of what you work with people at that beginning stage? Do you just go, yes, just put that on the shelf for now, but we're going to be aware of it and get it off at appropriate times, or how do you work with that?
Eddie:
Yeah, absolutely. You've got to meet the patient where they're at, and, you know, I see them at different stages of the journey, too. Like, I would love to see people as soon as that they're diagnosed. The reality is I don't, you know, because, you know, usually it's a medical diagnosis that's been picked up in a routine x-ray, and they've seen a lump or a bump somewhere, or they've got, like, some symptom. And they're wrapped up in that medical world, and so generally, it's not until they get just a little bit of breathing room, or they're speaking to someone in the chemotherapy ward, or, you know, the oncologist office, and they say, oh, maybe you should go have a chat to Eddie, or something like that. So I'll see them a little bit later in the piece, but I do talk very deeply into this stuff as someone who's been through it. You know, myself, like, I had to go onโฆ
I always talk about the two journeys that cancer patients need to go on. They go on that curative path, trying to get rid of lumps and bumps. But then there's the, like, the deeper journey of the healing path, which is what do the lumps and bumps mean in the context of my life. And I do talk about this to people. the right people, too. Not everyone's up for that conversation. You know, some people just want the lumps and bumps gone so they can get on with their life, and they might not get to that question of what are these lumps and bumps actually mean for me until very, very later in the piece, and some are up right from the start, too, like, different people, different humans. And I love having that, because it's important to have a look at, because, you know, if we don't change the conditions, why are we going on?
Well, then, you know, it's going to be very hard to get rid of this condition, and relapse is a reality for a lot of cancer patients. Because they go back to that same environment. So, I like to bring it up, absolutely, asโฆ as a conversation to be exploring, but it's not something that we can act massively on at the beginning, just because there's all the things to happen, there's the treatments, there's the protocols. which are the priority? The first priority is stabilize the condition, you know, ensure survival, you know, get some regression, get a plan of action into place, an agency over their journey, so they're not feeling like they're just being dragged along for the ride.
And then once they're settled into that, you know, and they've got that scaffolding for the mind and the treatment approach, that gives them a little bit of extra energy and bandwidth to be able to look at this stuff, and maybe dive into that asโฆ and that generally comes through the conversations around trying to create an environment for the body to be receptive to the dream, so nervous system conversation around stress. You know, anxiety, depression, anxiety, cancer anxiety, why they doโฆ stress the way that they do stress, and how do they learn that, which naturally takes it back to their biography, which is where that conversation starts into, oh, how did you become? Why do you do what you do the way that you do, and how did that form? And that can then start to touch on that subject of the deeper aspects of why. That's it.
Mason:
like, the stress maybe sometimes is like, alright, I'm gonna beโฆ gonna go into treatment, and I've got my plan, but then I can imagine the stress is like, where did this come from? And why is this happening? And all those types of questions, and then there's, like, an immediate nervous system regulation. But that's just a mechanism for being able to go back and actually, like. There's so many people I've met, those who are going through extreme treatment of any type of disease, there's those who are like, I know where this came from, and they've hadโฆ straight away, like, and it'll always be, like. I've had this same feeling around, you know, things happening with my dad, or there was my breakup, or thisโฆ and thenโฆ There's those whoโฆ They start outโฆ just hands up, oh, well, you know, this just occurs. Andโฆ but then there's gonna be a snag at some point once the nervous system startsโฆ
the questions are always gonna come up around, like, why did this happen? And, you know, yes, you do these adjunct therapies to make sure the nervous system is able to process this, but naturally. Then all the emotions and the awarenesses and the, you know. And what I'm wondering so often in the wellness world, it's the problem when it comes to diagnosis and treatment, is it's just like, you need to just go into this spiritual, ambiguous space and find the inception point, or, you know, just deal with this emotion, or whatever, likeโฆ How do you find that becomes practical in the middle of such very practical on, like, oncology and, you know, whether it's another disease or whatever? How does that start to become a grounded thing where someone that's in such a stress response and such a survival response and looking at mortality, that they're like. Oh, yeah.
that's actually really palpable for me, to start sitting around and looking at this moment that happened in my life, or this emotion, or this pattern, and start to even comprehend how, like, a mental pattern or an emotion, if it's that, I don't mean to project that, but isโฆ Maybe something that's, like, in the way of, like, that metabolic capacity to go and deal with this thing that's encroaching on the body's health.
Eddie:
Soโฆ I suppose, you know, everybody copes differently, some people do go right into the woo-woo world, you know, and the spiritual aspects of it, which is fine, but also, I suppose, we've also got aโฆ recognise, and sometimes I have to call people out on it, is are they actually bypassing you know, actually making realistic, important decisions for their health. Like, you know, you can have this diagnosis, you can be, you know, given a prognosis of 6 to 8 months, and you can go deep into the spiritual meaning of it and stuff, andโฆ Think that, you know, this disease is going to magically disappear with all that beautiful attention, and deep introspection, and prayers, and all the things, whatever the modalities and approach is, and I'm all for that, but also someone who's done that. andโฆ still the disease progresses. I think you've got to do both.
You've got to, you know, make realistic decisions for the physicality of the disease, because we're in this flesh suite that we're inhabiting for however long we get to inhabit this thing, and it is fallible, and it doesโฆ things do break down, and, you know, these things do erupt inside of it, and we need to treat the physical nature of it. And like I said, for me, that's number one priority first. Stabilize the condition, get you a sense of agency, which is so, so important for patients to have agency over their journey, and not just following doctor's orders. Some scaffolding so they feel safe enough for that nervous system to settle, to actually relax. maybe not relax is the wrong word, but be able to settle into that deeper conversation, and then do all that beautiful, deeper, spiritual work on understanding why, and manifestation, all the things that you can do.
Like, you've got to do it all, like, on such a serious condition, like. you gotta do whatever it takes, and that was something that I had toโฆ you know, death for me wasn't an option. Was not an option. I had, you know, a two and a half year old son and heavily pregnant wife. I'm not going anywhere. No chance. Not happening. Not evenโฆ not entertaining that idea. So, yeah, you do all that stuff, you deep dive into it, you do the hypothermia, the hyperbaric oxygens, you do the herbs, you do the supplements, you do the chemos, whatever you need to do, you know, it is your journey, and everyone will tread that path how they feel that they need to. There's the realistic nature of what cancer is, and then there's, like, theโฆ theoretical nature as well, just going to make sure that we're making smart decisions.
And I spend a lot of my time, because I understand the world very well, from a lived experience, but also from an actual clinical perspective, just helping people to understand the big picture.
Mason:
the grasping of reality isn'tโฆ isโฆ I mean, it'sโฆ they're subtle changes, the most profound ones, emotional, spiritual, basic lifestyle changes that take you on another trajectory, and respecting them as those subtle changes, and almost, like, the reality of, like, look, it'sโฆ a bit too late now to just make a subtle change. You've got something really physically manifest.
Eddie:
And you're gonna have to face it. The lastโฆ I mean, I think I mentioned on our chat.
Mason:
Is our preamble chatโฆ there was an oncologist that was on the podcast, and her sister had gone into immediate remission, and she tried to replicate it, and just could never clinically replicate it, and it was just, like, this thing for her. She was, like, far out, and Iโฆ One thing, you can't not mention that it's possible, but it's very irresponsible. To ever. state that this is something that you can expect, because it's probably not something that you can expect, and that probably had a bunch of conditions around it that made it possible for that immediate remission, whereas you're not in that kind of position, Ryan.
Eddie:
And like I, you know, it's probably a good time to mention the story I told you on that, on that phone call. You know, I had a patient with multiple myeloma, and she was a patient of another colleague who worked at the same practice. And, she said, go over and speak to Eddie. Eddie's been through the cancer journey, you'll probably get some value from just going to have a chat. So, you know, came in, had a consultation, did all the stories, did all the talks. I knew, because she wasn't necessarily my patient, she wasn't going to do a lot of what I asked to do or recommended to do, so she went off. She came back in 6 weeks later, and she said I've had amazing news. I was like, what? And she goes, I'm cancer-free. So multiple myelomas are really tough cancers. The cancer of the bone marrow doesn't respond well to treatment, prognosis isn't overly flashed at all.
And she goes, I'm cancer-free. I was like, alright, you got my attention. What happened? And she said, well, a friend of mine, a friend of mine gave me a book, and I was like, right, I'm all ears, tell me about the book. And so I knew, like, you know, this book had come preloaded from a friend. The friend said, listen, this book has changed my life. I think it'sโฆ it's got something for you, like, it'll read it, because it was the bestie. Awesome. She read the book. It was a book on Zen Buddhism, of living that really present, mindful life with ceremony, and just being really in the flow with life. And it sang to her. It was the right message at the right time, the right medicine at the right time, and it changed her whole perspective on life. She started living her life In that mindful way, which wasn't her beforehand. Andโฆ
You know, no different treatment, no different supplementations, the multiple moment disappeared. You know, amazing, frickin' amazing. Now, I could get that book, and I said to you, I could get that book and give it to 100 other patients, and it probably won't do squat for them. You know, again, it was the rightโฆ message, right medicine at the right time, and like, how do you replicate that? So, for that oncologist that came on your podcast, how frustrating. You know, that all they want to do, they're in the helping professions for a reason, they want to help people. And then not to be able to replicate that would be frustrating as hell. But it's just like, what's your medicine? What is the medicine that you need to hear, need to experience, need to take? And sometimes that medicine doesn't taste good, too. You know, what is it? What isโฆ what do you need?
Mason:
And sometimes that medicine.
Eddie:
position where they're at, that's theโฆ important thing that I've learned as a practitioner of 16 years, you've got to meet them where they're at, and not everyone's ready for that deep spiritual, you know, journey or conversation. Some, you just gotta drip feed them at the start and get them on board with. you know how powerful you actually are, do you? Most people don't know how powerful they freaking are, how much influence they have over their prognosis. It's huge. You know, the way they eat, and they move, and they think, and they sleep, and they breathe, everything, the chemistry of the life and the choices they make are all powerful prognostic factors that is given no airplane medicine whatsoever. And so I spend a lot of time you know, educating people, you know how powerful you are. You know, trust that you are going to create, you know, extraordinary outcomes here.
Don't just put your hands in, you know, in your doctor's hands. Don't just follow doctor's orders. It doesn't mean you don't follow the doctor's orders, but you do more than that. You do whatever it takes in a structured way, a realistic way. In an aggressive way, in my opinion. You know, I've had many, many stage 4 cancer patients that have had phenomenal results, and so I know it's possible, and it takes one person to prove it's possible.
Mason:
Do you thinkโฆ I mean, everyone would have heard me talking about on this podcast, and if you're new, then Steve at Harrod Buhner is, like, myโฆ ultimate herbal. mentor. And one of the stories in here, he talks about that heart perception. You understand enough theory of herbalism and disease states, and he'sโฆ you, as a practitioner, you gain all of that, that knowledge, you know, left hemisphere, all that, of the brain, all that understanding, which is necessary and something, I think, in the holistic space is, ignored, that if you're working with someone that's going to be able to get intuitive with you, you know, you can't just be intuitive and just intuit yourself through prescribing a couple of tools, because you like them, you need the cornucopia of training and understanding of the disease state and the reality of biology and all that kind of stuff.
But then there's that intuitive heart perception and that genuine perception. From his sense, it was a herbal, you know, he had relationships with herbs and would sit with them for hours and hours and hours, so that when he was talking to someone in clinic. He'd get to the point where the organโฆ he'd be able to pinpoint, even though the diagnosis was here, he'd be able to pinpoint The organ that was speaking out and calling out for help, andโฆ all of a sudden, in the back of his mind, he'd feel Angelica-root. And there was one story he has in his book, and he'dโฆ he was like, let's go for a walk. And he went for a walk with this one woman that he uses as the prime example across several of his books, and heโฆ took her across to where the Angelica was, and he didn't point it out, and she's just locked on.
She had endometriosis and a bunch of other hormonal issues, like, super chronic, getting to, you know, depression and suicidal and all that. Locked on, sat with it, they harvested it. she got the root, ate the root, then went and got a tincture from his clinic, and it was the thing. And I only bring it up because it's such an intricate science in doing that, and it is a science, and that's the thing I think is oftenโฆ so elusive that people think they're, like, you know, the chances of, like, rolling a Yahtzee. Is this your chance of finding your, you know, your linchpin, orโฆ but how do you approach that engaging with yourself as the sovereign autonomous person, and not just listening to the doctors, and, you know, maybe you don't find your Angelica or your Zen book, but maybe you find a slow path that you can comprehend as the genuine one that you're like, I'mโฆ
whether or not this works out for me or not, I'm really satisfied that I'veโฆ I'm on a path that feels like the right one. that science is, I think, it's elusive and mysterious, but I feel like we're getting closer.
Eddie:
Yeah, well, I think, yeah, like you say, there's a science to it, but I think there's an art to it as well, and the art of an experienced practitioner who's been doing it long enough to understand and has seen enough humans to understand the intricacies of humans and how they work. And for me, what I've learned is, you know, especially in the context of cancer care, is agency, is that word. I've said it a few times now, like. whatever they've got agency around, whether they want to do intravenous vitamin C, or they want to do herbs, or they want to do just chemo, whatever it is, you know, it's their belief in what their approach is, their agency over what it is I'm choosing to do this approach. If that were all in, you know, just placebo science shows us, you know, your belief in whatever your approach might be is 50-60% of any outcome. Like, amazing, huge benefit.
you know, massive, massive benefit to outcome there. And so it's about, you know, can you work with that person? Yes, from the scientific and the, you know, from the practitioner point of view, you can present the cases to them, or theโฆ maybe the case is the wrong word, the approaches and options to them, but ultimately, you know, I want them to make that decision, you know, on aโฆ On a cellular level, you know, a cell, a cancer cell is a cell that's lost its control mechanisms, you know, its ability to self-regulate its cell cycle and its division process. It's lost autonomy, it's lost agency. And it's almost like cancer on a macroscopic view of that patient, has also lost that, and it's like that reflection, that microscopic, macroscopic reflection is what I see. And so I've got to give that person agency to get their microscopic biology agency as well.
Like, there's something in that for me. And, I've noticed that when people do have that agency, they've got that framework, that scaffolding, and they're fully invested, that's what creates best outcomes, when they're all in. They pin their ears back, they go for it withโฆ With conviction that that's got something to say around outcomes around that.
Mason:
Do you bindโฆ in your coaching, or for you personally, there was that, like, meeting, because in everyโฆ whether it's Taoism in dissolving ignorance and delusion of the heart-mind, the yogaโฆ my wife was talking to me about the term the other day, but, like, all personal development is about dissolving story.
Eddie:
And coming back.
Mason:
to autonomy and reality, and almost, like, at times it's about dissolving, what you've appropriated and abdicated your autonomy because of, like, a cultural influence, or, you know, I just go with that, because that's what the institution does. which is always interesting, you've said it, it doesn't matter which path you go. You can still choose that institutional path, but I'm not just gonnaโฆ I'm not gonna abdicate my decision. Have you got a way in your coaching to work with that If you find that the decision-making is abdicated in its autonomy to a doctor, or a loved one, or to a woo-woo, trippy, I'm not gonna do anything because we don't believe in that in the wellness world. Like, how do you help someone get back to that thread of, like. This isโฆ this is the one decision you need to make, and it needs to be yours.
Eddie:
Well, I think, It's a great question. You know, the C word's such a powerful word, you know, to evoke so much emotion, it really is aโฆ a dance with mortality, a potential dance with death, so it comes with a lot of oomph. and urgency, and, you know, hugeness around that. So, that lends itโฆ you know, to be a little bit easier to have those deeper conversations, like, you've got to take control here. And a lot of it comes down to having the conversations, like, a lot of the time when people come in, especially for the first time, it's just a huge conversation. Sometimes there's many huge conversations just toโฆ To lay the groundwork, can you see what's really going on here? Yes, we've got to make trade decisions and all these things, but here's the big picture. And, you know, it does take us into, you know, the world of outcomes and the benefit of different treatments.
And once they start to understand, like, the very limited benefit of some of these mainstream oncological treatments, they realize, like, holy shit, I've got to step up here. And then it's like, awesome. Now, what does that look like? And then we can look at the options and go, well, there are different ways you can step up, and that leads me into usually that conversation. Do you know how powerful you actually are? Should we have a look at it? Let's look at some of these things that you can do, which aren't coming from bottles of pills and potions and lotions. These are things that all you've got to do is make some choices in your life to move more, to be more socially connected, to, you know, to do all these things.
And this adds powerful points of prognosis to your outcome, you know, and it leads into that you know, that world of getting them on board, that, hey, actually, I'm the driver of this journey here. You know, it's unwise to hand my power over to the physician when they're only looking at lumps and bumps, and, you know, anyone who's traveled with cancer understands that it's much, much more than lumps and bumps. It's not just a physical disease at all, that's, like, the symptom of the disease, if anything. What I've learned from cancer patients, to speak into what you were speaking about before. you know, what I've learned, because I get to counsel a lot of people, my psychotherapists as well.
So, you know, I get to hear people's stories, you know, even before Council's in the mix, you hear the biography, you can see the chain of events, like you mentioned earlier, you can see what's led up to this. Most people inherently know what's caused their conditional being really big, big, factors in it, but what I've learned from it is it's a disease of disconnection. It's a disconnection from that autonomy, that agency themself on that more psychological level, and a big part of what it did for me wasโฆ brought me back to me. You know, it's almost like that body's calling out so much to come back into authenticity. And there's huge growth in that suffering process, and you know, when held in that way, with that right attitude towards it, and someone that can take you there, like, it is a beautiful journey to come back home.
Mason:
Could I ask, maybeโฆ I don't know if there's an answer to this, but I know when there's been occasions when I've created something in my life, it's not the big C, but I've created situations, and then I've been able to observe my conditions that led me there, and been able to see that I couldn't do anything different. It was so driven into my pattern, and I wasโฆ I've had people knocking me on the side of the head. toโฆ to change, and Iโฆ but I justโฆ Couldn't physically or psychologically do it, for whatever reason. And then you get knocked on the head by an actual thing that's a knock on the head, like a big C or some other kind of thing. What's that moment of, like, you know, whether it'sโฆ like, for me, I canโฆ I canโฆ cry victim, that's myโฆ I can be like, this isโฆ this sucks. I don't say poor me, but I'm like, this sucks, it's unfair, and I don't like the way this universe is constructed.
That's myโฆ that's the way I go about it, and Iโฆ and Iโฆ and I really try and examine that, and I'm like, I'll take the little knock on the head so that I don't get a massive one. But is thatโฆ is that a moment? Is that a thing? Thatโฆ thatโฆ and it's like, well. you know what? Now it's here, you know? Now you're aware of it. So, like, is, likeโฆ Without putting false gratitude on it, either.
Eddie:
And I think it's important, like, it's not about blame game, and it's not about, you know, blaming someone, you've made yourself sick. I don't think there's anyโฆ any benefit in that, you know, if anything, it's coming from a place of love and compassion, and seeingโฆ Now, the multi-generational nature of all this, like, if youโฆ why do you do what you do the way that you do? Well, it's not just because of you, it's your ancestors, it's what you were exposed to in your family home, and who was in your family home, mum and dad, and what they were exposed to, this multi-generational nature of disease, even, if we were to say that. And so, no one to blame, just look at the mess, and what have we got to do about the mess? You know, rather than, oh shit, what have I done? I've got to do this, got to change that. You know, that can keep people up at night, and I don't like to do that.
I like to sometimes frameโฆ Sometimes it's helpful for patients to see the cancer as more like an injury than a sickness, you know, an injury where you've damagedโฆ That's interesting. One cell in the breast, you know, two to five years ago got damaged, and that one cell you know, slipped the immune system surveillance, and that one cell became 2, then that 2 became 4, then 4 became 8, 16, etc. Exponential growth until a lump and a bump form billions of cells later. You know, most cancer diagnoses are at least 2 to 5 years old by the time a lump and bump forms. And so, but it started with one cell, one little injured cell. Like, sometimes that's a helpful conversation to have, just to take, you know, the blame out of it, because most people go straight to that. you know, oh shit, what have I done to cause this?
So it's like, let's take that out of the conversation, because, you know, we're not going to heal this. While we're trying to reprimand ourself, or blame ourselves, or anything like that, it's not helpful.
Mason:
That injury framework, like, the continuum, the intergenerational injury framework, is reallyโฆ I think that's actuallyโฆ really potent.
Eddie:
Yeah, epigenetics, yeah, it sort of touches into that, and the influence of the ancestors, their choices, and their exposure to whatever it is, and how it echoes through, and it exposes genes, and exposes sensitivities, if we call them that. Yeah. Our responsibility is to help sort it out.
Mason:
Well, that's agency, then, right? You've got a responsibility about yourself.
Eddie:
Yep.
Mason:
That's cool. Do you watch whenโฆ do you watch the color change when thatโฆ In a patient, when theyโฆ
Eddie:
It's beautiful to watch whenโฆ it's giving me goosebumps, actually, just thinking about it. No, it's beautiful to watch when somebody realizes that they're not just being dragged along for the ride, and their life isn't in someone else's hands, when they go, oh, I've got control here. Like, you can see the drop in there, man, it's just like, yeah, now we're on, now we're cooking.
Mason:
On. That's whatโฆ that's one of the values of Supervis. You gotta be on. You're on, mate.
Eddie:
Then they're motivated, then they're inspired, you know? No, it's not motivated. Motivation is trying to get someone to do something they don't want to do. Now, my job's not to do that, I don't like doing that at all. I have to inspire people with the conversations, withโฆ show them the science behind the strategy, or whatever it is, or the mechanics of whatever it is I've talked about. And get them to value it and be inspired about it, that, you know, you don't have to motivate them to do something. They're inspired to do it. Now, it's just getting that personโฆ that's the art of the medicine, you know, that's the art of a practitioner, is how good are you at inspiring people, and educating people, and getting them to have agency. I think that's what makes an exceptional practitioner, as opposed to a theoretical one that can just spit out recipe book, you know, protocols.
Mason:
Yeah, protocols, choices, I mean, we'veโฆ you know, I'mโฆ I'm in the scallywag wellness world, so I'veโฆ I've seen all theโฆ the cancer summits and all of that, and it's like, this hour talk on soursop, this talk on this thing, and turmeric, and this, and then Iโฆ and then Iโฆ because of the way that I kind of approach, you know, I decentralized myself from the decentralized movement, quite often people are like, well, what do I choose? And I'm like. that I can't help you with, hence why I'm having this conversation with you. We've talked about, like, you know, do your kitchen sink it? Well, if that's autonomous, but if that's, likeโฆ in terms of, like, we've talked about that process that would lead to then you perhaps understanding the few things that you are going to engage in off the side of you going through your healing journey. What's that look like for a lot of people?
I imagine that must be wild for you to watch what people gravitate towards.
Eddie:
mate, people come in, and they've got a laundry list of stuff. Like, they rattle when they come. You hear them coming down the hallway, they're taking so much. They've hit CatGTP, they've hit the Facebook forums, they've Googled it toโฆ you know, the bejesus, their friends have rocked up and go, oh, I read about this, I bought you 5 bottles of it here, take that, and you feel obliged to take it, and they've got this list that long. And I call it the shotgun approach. It's just throwing shit at it, hoping something sticks, and there's noโฆ there's no rhyme, there's no reason to it, it's just a whole heap of chemistry flooding the body, and a lot of the time it's really confused chemistry, especially when you talk about nutrients. You know, you've got antioxidants here, you've got pro-oxidants here, you've gotโฆ
most of the stuff's not even at therapeutic dosing, so it's not gonna potentially do a huge amount for them, andโฆ So, a lot of the time, they come in and it's just having a conversation about, you know, more isn't always better. Not my experience in cancer, cancer care. I would rather do less. But do less more aggressively, and know what I'm using, why I'm using it, what the therapeutic dosing is, so I'm giving them enough of this stuff, and it's got to be the right timing and strategy involved as well. And then, you know, when you start to frame that out for people, then people go, I see what's going on here, I understand this. Then comes an agency. I've got to drive this. I can only, you know, lead you to water. Now, you've got to drink from it. You've got to actually do this. You're the one that goes home with these things. But do you understand the framework?
Do you understand what we're doing here? And now they've got a game plan they're on. And that'sโฆ I think that's really important, because most people aren't. They're justโฆ Hoping for the best, looking for a couple of Hail Marys to come in and, you know, hopefully, you know, magically solve the situation. So, that's a really big conversation to have very early in the piece, just to go, you know, to set the realistic expectations on what we're doing here and what we're dealing with. And I've foundโฆ 100% of the time, pretty much 100% of the time, it's a very beneficial conversation to have that puts them, you know, in a better place of feeling confident with what they're doing.
Mason:
Do you findโฆ You know, there'sโฆ there'sโฆ The only direct options for treatment are obviously within the regulated system, where they can claim to work directly on a lump or bump. Andโฆ whatever. I don't know whether that's right or wrong, or whatever, I think we're all gonnaโฆ evolve and integrate as we go along. It is what it is at the moment. Like, when I have oncologists using our products. I sometimes even have to say to them, don't use my products Directly, because even if there is evidence of a particular constituent at a particular therapeutic dose. the data isn't there. I don't work within that datascape. Even Chinese medicine doesn't even work within the diagnosis of this disease you're talking about. It's diagnosed as completely something else, so don't. Soโฆ
the way that I've approached it is through Fujiang therapy, as it's called in Taoism and Chinese medicine, which just means protect the upright. So as someone's going through a treatment, protect the upright qi that is keeping that person intact and keeping their capacity to generally heal. as you go about clinically and do that treatment. When people start picking their couple of things, do you find it falls in that region, or are they sometimes going like, no, I feel that thing is going to directly help Me deal with this.
Eddie:
Yeah, I think most people's attitudes towards these Hail Marys, let's call them that, is that they are definitely going to come in and nuke this thing out of the body, and I'm going to walk away cancer-free. I think that's a general attitude, because, you know. it's the C-word, they want it gone. They want to get on with their life, they want this thing just to be gone like that, and honestly, once you're diagnosed, that's the next 2-5 years of your life. for me, I like what you talked about there. The way that I would frame it, and I do frame it to patients, is yes, obviously, modern oncology with their chemotherapy, their radiation, their other medical oncology drugs, their surgeries, are very much about lumps and bumps. You know, that's what they focus on, but for me.
the way that I view cancer is, yes, the tumors and the lumps and bumps are really important to address, but they are the symptom of the disease. They're not the disease itself. And so, where the conversations I have around the strategy and the compounds and the herbs. We're working with the terrain. I want to work on the terrain, the soil that's allowed that little tumor seed to grow, so let's focus there, and when done right, we can combine the two. We can address the lump and a bump, and do what we need to do to stabilize that, because, you know, leftโฆ Untreated or with unsuccessful treatment. the thing will grow. And if it grows, it has potential to spread even further and to release those nasty cells, those stem cells, which cause all the problems.
So, let the medicos do what they need to do to address the lumps and bumps, and let's work underneath and alongside that to address the terrain and the soil, and create a really inhospitable environment for those, those tumor cells that make them weak and vulnerable and fragile, because that makes them easier to eliminate with the treatments. And let's support The body, the person, the upright. Yeah.
Mason:
Yeah. Yeah, and for anyone listening.
Eddie:
And psychologically, yeah.
Mason:
And psychologically. I mean, and that's for anyone listening who's like, well, what terrain are you guys venturing into? Yep. The Modern Medical Institute deals with the sea.
Eddie:
We deal withโฆ
Mason:
Like, I mean, for me, anyway, not speaking for you. Like, it's like theโฆ yep. But it's the body that does it.
Eddie:
Ultimately, and that's even the modern medicine is not.
Mason:
That they can rateโฆ the word, and weโฆ and Iโฆ and I don't, you'reโฆ you're able to, but, like, use the word, and, you know, perhaps, whether you're treating the C word, or, you know, or the cancer directly. Even all doctors know that they can do their thing on, as you said, on what the fruiting is of that dysfunction within the body. But they know that, oh, you've got a really good constitution, it's responding really well to the medicine. Oh, what are you doing? Keep doing it, don't tell me, you're doing something.
Eddie:
Don't tell me, but just keep doing what youโฆ
Mason:
tell me, don't bloody tell me what you're doing, but I know you're doing better than 99% of my patients. So I just want everyone to know, in terms of a regulatory sense and listening to us, just in case that's in the way of what you're hearing. This is aโฆ I hope you're taking itโฆ it's a very integrated conversation, and it's very, like, side-by-side, you know, that institution is doing an incredible job, as you said, of catching people at that moment, right?
Eddie:
Itโฆ it saved my life. I wouldn't beโฆ be here without chemotherapy. You know, as hard as it was, and it was hard treatment, like, I was having 3 chemotherapies on a Monday, two every other day of the week from Tuesday to Sunday, and then 2 weeks off, that was my regime. And yes, I had 3 relapses in my cancer. The terrain wasn't conducive to the outcome that I was desiring, which was a whole other conversation around my stress levels and the business and what was driving all that, but my body wasn't receptive to getting the full treatment benefit. And I had testicular cancer, which is, out of all the cancers that you could potentially get, if you can get it. It's the most treatable. Like, absolute cure, like, cancer gone, never come back. With first line of treatment in testicular cancers in the realms of 94% to 96%.
You know, if you had a herb that could guarantee a 94% success rate, like, it's a pretty effective bloody treatment, yeah? Yes, it's brutal, though. But it was coming back over and over again, so it wasn't going to do the job for me. I had to go overseas, I had to change my whole life, the terrain, manage my internal terrain a hell of a lot better through my own inner exploration and meditation and breathing practices andโฆ therapy and all the things. I went overseas to a hypothermic clinic and did very aggressive heat treatment to help hypersensitize my cells. And I went over to this clinic for 8 weeks, and I was in high hope that I was going to come back cancer-free. Go over there, come back the hero. Look, I did hypothermia, cancer's defeated. I came back, everything had tripled in size. I was very, very, very unwell. And then I had my treatment, and it melted away.
Like, my oncologist, even to this day, and he's a pretty conservative old doc, he knows what I do for a living, and the way that I think, and so he's very supportive of me, but he's still a conservative doc. His mouth was on the floor, his jaw was wide open, and even to this day, he still goes, it saved your life. But it wasn't going to save my life alone. You know, it had to be in combination in an integrative fashion, and certainly my experience working with patients is that the integrative approach Listen, it's a tough approach, especially with medical oncology. Treatments are not easy, but, you know, it more reliably provides a success, you know, when you bring it all together.
The best of all the medicines just do better medicine in general, rather than us versus them, which is the unfortunate attitude that a lot of medicos have Because this alternative medicine word, alternative, automatically means choose something over something, and it's not as complementary, it's intuitive medicine.
Mason:
Yeah, I mean, we all have the same goal. And obviously, the sole use Or the excessive use of one treatment that ignores the rest of the body in which is unfortunately responsible due to a dysfunction or an injury that allowed this to occur in the first place, that it's just like, oh, mystery that you got it and no one else got it. Whereas, like, no, there'sโฆ Yes, we're alternative, and yes, you know, like, even, like, the nootropicโฆ the naturopathic world, the hormone markers, the nervous system markers, all of those things are starting to get integrated, but that hands-up approachโฆ then the ignorโฆ ignoring of, like, oh yeah, I don't know why you're doing so well. You're doing something right. Yeah, I'm doing some things. You want to hear about it? No, don't want to hear about it.
Eddie:
No, thanks. But, like, you said it before, like, the body, ultimately, at the end of the day, is the thing that heals. Like, apart from surgery, surgery, chop the lump and bump out, a little bit different, but, like, radiation, oncology, these third-generation drugs that they use as well. Ultimately, at the end of the day, all the drugs do is get those cells to the point where they are apoptose, which is a decision the cell makes toโฆ particular self. So the body does the healing. The treatments just get the cell to the point where the body can do, and so sometimes I have to frame it like. You know, especially someone who's really advanced. They've been trying a lot of natural things, and avoiding, you know, the medical oncology as much as they can, because they're petrified of it, usually.
sometimes it comes from some lopsided belief systems around that, that are sometimes tricky to manage for people, but, you know, they get to a state and they're really advanced, and it's time to have a serious conversation, just go, listen, like, we're losing the wrestle here. We needโฆ these drugs. Yes, they're not super effective, but they do shrink tumors very, very well, and they help us to wrestle back on top of the scene and gainโฆ gain control again. So then we can forge forward towards, you know, to get a successful outcome for the person. And so, you know, there's a time and a place for it. And at the end of the day, it's that person's decision. They can choose whatever they want. I'll support them in that, as long as I've done my duty of care, you know, as a human to them, is to help them understand the whole scenario, and I'm quite uniquely placed to be able to do that.
And I enjoy being able to do that for people, and I think it's helpful. I hope it's helpful.
Mason:
I think it is. I mean, because it's soโฆ it's so based in reality and objective. This is effective in this. This is effective over here. Here's the entire landscape. It's so nuanced, and of course, I'm feeling a little bit teary.
Eddie:
It's really good.
Mason:
For some reason.
Eddie:
That's that curative path that I spoke of? That's the lumps and bumps territory. We've got a whole other one to go on, you know, when you're ready, you know?
Mason:
Well, I mean, the psyche's kind of come up a little bit, and that'sโฆ I think that's probably the most interesting, and you need toโฆ actually, I'm just remembering something I think is relevant. When I'm my therapist, because I'm someone that lives in the etheric, andโฆ theโฆ you know, in more of the imaginal realm that maybe wouldn't want to acknowledge in the past the, the cut it out, you know? Like, no, it's gone too far, you know, you need some, you know, you need someโฆ I remember when I had to take antibiotics for the first time forever when I got bitten by a tick and I was going down with Lyme disease. And I took the doxy for the first time. It reallyโฆ and it was myโฆ that teacher, Steven Buhner, in his blind book, it had the herbal protocols, and it was like, if you hit this point, don't be an idiot. Like, go and take the doxy. And I was likeโฆ Shut up, Steven, fine.
Eddie:
fortunate. I'm the.
Mason:
perfect naturalist that doesn't need that shit. Despite the fact it's literally the world that I'm incarnate into, and I'm living in that type of, like, you know, that cross across institutions, and it's all available to us at all one time, and I need to learn how to integrate it. Oh, God, sorry, I'm gonna, like, forgetโฆ kind of somewhat forget where I was going with that, but in terms of then you go to the point where it's appropriate for psyche and distinction. and subtle realizations that, at the right time, are massive linchpins. We talked a bit about plant medicine, you know, psychotherapy, is that the right wording? It can happen in psychotherapy, sometimes someone has to go to Peru. You? Was itโฆ was itโฆ
Eddie:
Yes, yes, I went into Amazon.
Mason:
You went to the Amazon, so what was it? Because, again, I mean, ayahuasca and mushrooms can be a throw-the-kitchen-sink shotgun approach as well. Cure me. And at theโฆ when itโฆ but when is that sweet spot, and what did you getโฆ And when do you see, if your patients go off and do their own plant medicine in legal places? May I add, for any cheeky people that are coming onto the podcast?
Eddie:
I mean, at least needs to do that.
Mason:
No, no, not my listeners, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting, we're getting out there. I'm moving and shaking out there. I'm getting institutionalized in a good way. I'm a mushroom. We're mushrooms. We runโฆ that's the whole intention. The vision for SuperFeast is, I want to be that weed. that pops up in that concrete playground that they have, and I want to be that dandelion that pops up, and I've got that mycelium underneath. The thing about mycelium and weeds. is that they're only going to decompose that thing within an institution or within a location that's actually rotting, and that wants to be decomposed. It doesn't go in and decompose something which has actually been of a net positive to humanity. And the other thing I realized is, as I go and do that in my business, I can't just be the savior. There'sโฆ there's a symbioticโฆ
the institutions are going to reach into my business and organization and show where we're actually lacking, and it's gonna make us decompose our old patterns, and so I'm like, oh my god damn it, I can't avoid the Dao and the natural symbiosis that I'm a part of, so I'm like, I think I'm getting just as much from them as I am, so I'm not just a scallywag warrior trying to rip things down, butโฆ In that sense of, like, when they go andโฆ your patients do plant medicine, or when you did, what's that linchpin and sweet spot that it did for you?
Eddie:
Well, you know, anyone that's doneโฆ some plant medicine and worked with it long enough to understand, like, what its scope of practice is. Like, it doesn't fix anything. None of these medicines fix anything. They just show you where you need to be fixed. They showโฆ they drag up the dead wood, you know, to have a look at that dead wood that needs to be metabolized. and composted, you know, and so thatโฆ that's intention, yeah, understanding the scope of it, and then having the intention to go and look for that. And so, you know, notโฆ not a lot of my patients go and do this, because let's just face it, like, unless you're in certainโฆ communities. You may not even know that, you know, it's accessible at all, unless you want to go and, you know, travel and do the ayahuasca tourism and go to Costa Rica or the Amazon, or wherever you're going to go to.
But, you know, that inner exploration, whether it's using plant medicines, or it's using meditation, or anything, or therapy, whatever, you know, it comes out of that conversation of, like, why do I do what I do the way that I do it? How did that lead to potentially why I'm unwell? The why? Why am I unwell? What does this mean in the context of my life? And it naturally takes you back into your biography and the stuff that happened to you, you know, your traumas and things, which then, obviously, a lot of people that are starting to look into their traumas and feel their way through that, you know, they find their way towards, you know, these modalities. But whether or not they have access to it or not is a different thing. But, you know, it's a beautiful journey, and for me, that's what it was. It was trying to understand what was driving me, you know, in myโฆ in my life, andโฆ
you know, there was a deep inner sense of disconnection, and, you know, evenโฆ and a big part for me was, like, you know, I had those three relapses, like, what the hell? I'm a naturopath, I already work with people that are chronically ill and cancer patients back then, not as much as I do now, and it was just, like, black. I'm doing everything right. Like, I'm doing the right diet, the supplements, the medicines, I'm following doctors' orders, I'm doing it, and it's falling on deaf ears, like, whatโฆ what is going on here? And then, like, it wasโฆ I call it my fry pan to the head moment, one of those cast iron ones, you know, those big heavy base ones. And it was just like, I'm missing the point. I'm trying to medicate my lumps and bumps away, and not understanding what they mean in the context of my life, andโฆ for me, it was like, why can't I just drop this business?
Why is this so important? And I realized through that deeper exploration that You know, I was seeking validation in this pursuit. You know, I wasn't getting it in other areas of my life, more relationship with my father and all these things. But I was getting from all the clientele that was coming and saying how amazing it was, and this, and then it was like, oh, there's something inside of me that whiter, that hungry ghost was just like, that feels good. So I wouldn't drop her, and it was just like, what is going on there? And that took me deep into my childhood stuff. And, you know, I had, because of the realms that Iโฆ I walk in, I had easy access to these things, so I could start to explore with the use of the psychedelic medicines. You know, what the dead wood was, what the underground core beliefs, that disconnection, that source of disconnection was for me.
So it's been a really important part of it, but I had to do the work. Like, it didn't take any of that stuff away. It took no pain away. If anything, it intensified the pain. But it gave me clarity and, oh, this is what's going on. I need to work on that stuff, which was that healing journey. And I'm very, very grateful for it. It's played a huge part of my life, and I get to do that work with people. So yeah, there's many ways to that answer, though. It doesn't have to be the plant medicines, it can be all sorts.
Mason:
Yeah, I mean, I'm so grateful to my plant medicine days, and definitely have no desire to go back there in the sense of the, you know, I like the subtle practices I have now, but also.
Eddie:
There's only so much you can keep going back to the same thing. Like, all roadsโฆ all roads lead back to Rome with this stuff. It all goes back to the same core beliefs. Like, how much do you want to keep visiting? There's a point where you've got to embody that, and you've got to actually move forward, andโฆ
Mason:
an embodiment there.
Eddie:
Directing that stuff up.
Mason:
the integrationโฆ well, yeah, I mean, that was the same. It's like, you know, there's a nice cycle of therapy. I went to a nice Jungian therapy when I, you know, I was going through myโฆ you know, my dark business days, and that was great, and got to 3 years, and I was like, alright, that's enough. I betterโฆ But in integration, I know that's one thing, you know, a lot of shamans kind of throw at me, you've got to integrate, and you know, it's like, so do you find that that integration, just in terms of the work and the hard work, just comes down to. Maybe difficult conversations. actions, significant actions that you're ignoring, maybe going through, like, a resolution, or, you know, or acknowledging that there's a resolution and nothing's ever going to be fixed in that relationship. Is that kind of what all it is?
Eddie:
Yeah, it's embodiment, I think. You know, embodiment of that knowledge, of that clarity, wisdom, insight, whatever it is that you've gleaned. Now, it's how do I put this into my life? And so it's embodiment into that, and yeah, some of these things we cannot change, but we canโฆ what we can change is our relationship to these things, and I think that's where the deep introspective work helps us. It looks atโฆ helps us to understand our relationship to this stuff and our relationship to ourself, where that formed, why that formed. And if we can redefine that relationship, especially in a healthy way, then that permeates out into every area of our life. life. Because, you know, we're in every area of our life, and if we change that core relationship, the most important relationship of all, everything changes. It's just how do we get to that core wounding, that core relationship, andโฆ
redefine that. That'sโฆ that's the integration.
Mason:
I find thatโฆ I mean, I know it's difficult when you're in the middle of it, I don't want to oversimplify it, but it is hyper-practical. In that sense, whichโฆ and I feel, you know, those old roads lead to Rome. I feel like we're kind of getting there in terms of that healing path. Myโฆ I mean, I just went over your website again, and I, you know, the metabolism word popped up again, you know, and it's one that I think isโฆ Having a big resurgence when it comes to disease, in terms of there is the.
Eddie:
Metabolic conditions, yeah?
Mason:
Oh, yeah, well, there's the treatment of the big thing, the big manifestation of the thing. There's the subtle realm we're talking about, which isn't subtle if you hit it at the right time.
Eddie:
And then there's the work.
Mason:
that's out of the body, that's actually doing all the work in the meantime, either integrating the psychological embodiment or going ahead and metabolically treating what's going on in the body. Is that a big piece inโฆ when you're working with patients?
Eddie:
it's all of it, you know, it's the terrain, it's the soil. The terrain, yeah. You know, if we remember, like, all these signs and symptoms, whether it's autoimmunity, anxiety, depression, cancer, whatever it is, these are feedback mechanisms the body uses to get our attention for change. You know, our job is to understand what that language is, and what it's asking for, and make the appropriate changes in our life, which changes the chemistry of our life, whichโฆ Our body is a feedback mechanism for the chemistry of our life. So, when we view it differently, then it's all about, we're in control here, we're empowered here, we can make these choices and changes with the right support. And that changes the game. And so, yeah, it's all about the terrain, yeah. We don't ignore all lumps and bumps, especially in the cancer context, or symptoms in any suffering.
Like, we can medicate symptoms, but at least call it out for what it is. It's symptomatic management, and that's okay. But, you know, it's not resolving anything. Many people come in with all sorts of natural things. you know, that they're taking, you know, might be for depression or something, but it's like, just on a different form of an SSRI. That's okay. Is it helping her? Awesome. Shall we dig deeper, though? I think that.
Mason:
When you work with patients, then? Because you know, you're like, right, here's the steps you take and what you do in lifestyle for your metabolism to heal or become optimal. Obviously, if someone's gotten that sick. I mean, I'll talk for myself, you know, I know what I need to do, but I've still gotโฆ obviously, shortcomings and vices. And there's some things I just know I'm not gonna be able to get over. just now, or the others I can. Like, how do you work with, like, an add-in well, how does it work? Or sometimes do you have to have a frank conversation and be like, sorry, that one isn't non-negotiable, I won't be able to get past that vice, but you can add these things in? Like, how do you go about that?
Eddie:
For sure. Well, there are non-negotiables, you know, the basics of health that we all know that we should do, but, you know, most people are more than willing to do things. Yeah. They know what we need to do, I know I need to eat better, I know I need to move my body, I know I need to do this and that and whatever, I need to drink more water, blah blah blah. the conversation I have a lot is, okay, whatโฆ whatโฆ before we even do the doing, What's the roadblock? What's the thing that's in the way? What's blocking the path to healing? What's the wall that's in the way? And let's address that first. Let's clear the path to healing first, before we do the doing. You know, and this comes down to, you know, self-limiting core beliefs, there's actual practical things in their life, and, you know, situational things sometimes that are really hard to freaking manage.
that are going to make the whole thing, you know, fail, and sometimes I pose this question to people. We have this beautiful conversation about the strategies, andโฆ this and that, and then I'm like. what's gonna make this whole fucking thing fail?
Mason:
That's a great question. That's a great question. Everyone knows exactly what it's gonna be as well.
Eddie:
Yeah, everyโฆ and absolutely, every single time, people go straight to bang, that. So it's like, let's deal with that first, shall we? Yeah, yeah. Before we do anything, yeah? And I'm a big fan of doing that, you know, what I've noticed, yeah, is the roadblocks, and roadblocks are so important. We're all focused with do more. More is better, little bit's good, a whole lot more, must be better. New practitioner, new modality, new supplement, new mushroom, newโฆ Medicine, you frickin' whatever. do less, do less more aggressively, do the right things, right doses, right framework, right mindset, but let's just remove the roadblocks first, focus there, and I find that gives better success.
Mason:
Yeah, I mean, that'sโฆ I'm not gonna dig into it, because I think that would beโฆ quite a personal conversation, but I think that's the one. everyone can do right now, regardless. Doesn't matter whatโฆ you don't need a diagnosis, you can go in and look at your goal and go, like, what's the one thing that's gonna derail it?
Eddie:
You know, it's just a conversation with yourself, like, what's gonna make this all fucking fail? Well, that's always, like, that'sโฆ I guess I have my ownโฆ wait, but I could probably refine the way that I do it now, but I doโฆ I try and make sure I talk.
Mason:
like, I talk to my, you know, if it's in business, I talkโฆ I make sure I tell my CEO exactly what that is, and sometimes it's difficult to do that without handing over that autonomy, as you were talking about, which is sometimes, I think, is my issue, and I imagine sometimes people who are sick, they're like, right, I just need to tell everyone what the roadblock is, and now it's their problem. They're the ones that need to deal with it and hold me accountable, and that'sโฆ well, I'm projecting that, that's my thing. I'm like, now you go! I've just been vulnerable, and now you have to deal with my dysfunction. But, I mean, just, yeah, sharing with those around you, this is what I've identified is gonna trip me up, this is what I'm personally doing about it, just want you to be aware of it.
Eddie:
I've found, like, with the healing stuff, like, quite commonly the roadblocks, yes, there are situational things, like a dysfunctional marriage, you know, just working, financial, you know, status, all these things create legitimate, really hard roadblocks for some people, but a big part of the roadblocks are usually psychological, you know, there's those core beliefs. You know, the I am, the I'm not statements that get in the way. I'm not worthy, is a big one. That, you know, you can have best intentions, but if you, you know, feel like you're worthy of healing or making that change, and change is hard. You know, we know what we need to do, but the actual change, these creatures of habits that we are, you know, we struggle with it. And so, you know, I thinkโฆ And we've got to be gentle on ourselves, too. That's tough.
Mason:
Yeah, well, you gotta be gentle. I mean, and sometimes overcoming those I am statements is such a big thing. I mean, like, I was literally just talking this morning to my wife about it. I was, like, talking aboutโฆ I was 20 when I went and did my first, like, landmark. This is my first personal development thing, and I wasโฆ we were talking about someone who's like, I'm just really nervous, andโฆ and I watched this person up on stage for an hour and a half. And it took them an hour and a half to realize that, like, you're not nervous, you're Kate.
Eddie:
No, nervous doesn't exist.
Mason:
I'm not gonna take away the fact that you feel that way, and all the things, and you know, and as much as I've got to criticize, I enjoy criticizing and having fun against things like Landmark, or Tony Robbins, or Plant Medicine, all of it. I love taking the piss out of all of it. But, like, at the crux, that's, like, like. There's reality. Youโฆ nervous doesn't exist. There's a story. You're here.
Eddie:
Andโฆ
Mason:
This isโฆ this is what's real.
Eddie:
And it is, like I say, it's thoseโฆ They are really hard to change those core beliefs, but those core beliefs are your relationship to yourself, and they formed a long time ago, and we've got to understand where they formed and how they permeate our life. And most of the time, they're lopsided bullshit. You know, they're not even accurate, you know, but we believe it so much. It's such an old program that we're running. Now, we've got to come in gentle, we've got to come in from a place of love and compassion to understand how that formed, and how that does pollute our life, potentially, at the moment. And can we bring some acceptance to it, some love, compassion, and start to reframe that in whatever way, shape, or form that we find our way into that, to massage that around into a different shape?
So, again, we then start to show up differently in our healing, or in our relationships, or in our parenting, or whatever it might be. Such a powerful, powerful thing, and it sounds so easy just to change relationships. It's not the hardest thing in the world to do. You hang on to those core beliefs, like survival, because they are, they are survival.
Mason:
Yeah, so why haven't you? Yeah, I think we're doingโฆ we're getting there in society, or at least in that personal development space. I mean, it's been highlyโฆ
Eddie:
Yeah, the trauma-informed, you know, conversations going on, I think the willingness of people to look at this stuff. You know, this generation, you know, it'sโฆ you know, it's inspiring to see people are willing to have that.
Mason:
And a lot of context around not sticking in the identity of the trauma as well. A lot of really nice, you know, distinctions around that, which I think was kind of the final piece to come in, yeah?
Eddie:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, the trauma is an occurrence. It happened. What did you make it mean about yourself and the place and the world? That's what we change. You can't change. The trauma happened, it's an occurrence, it happened. You know, it probably wasn't appropriate, you know, all the things that could have happened. What did you make of me? Let's look at that.
Mason:
Bring her into land. We've got a lot of people listening in all different, different situations. We understand that terrain is what we're going to be focusing on, and even if they're those, like, real, repeated ones of what everyone needs to do in terms of their chop wood carry water. in maintaining their metabolism in their terrain, so thatโฆ which is something I wouldn't even mind hearing yourโฆ the way that you frame it is, like, what's the macro intention? Because healโฆ just healing this one thing isn't the ultimate goal. There's a big goal for life, you know? To, like, rope right ahead of you, which is, like, what we want as humans. So in order to engage with that, whatever, destiny, or goal, orโฆ just to be awesome, healthy humans that contribute. What'sโฆ what are thoseโฆ what are those things that you're, you know, you're gearing everyone up for?
Eddie:
Hmm. Big, big question. For me, the work that I do, whether it's cancer, whether it's anything else that I treat, it's all the same thing. For me, it's all just humans that are suffering, and they'reโฆ it's all about homeostasis of the system, coming back into balance, coming back into connection, to authenticity. It's just, how do we get someone in there? How do we have those conversations to get to people to understand what's really going on here? And help be a guide on that. You know, I say to people, I'm a guide, not a god. I can just show you some stuff and talk to you about stuff. I have some knowledge, you've got some knowledge, let's share, let's be vulnerable, I'll show you how messed up I am, the stuff that I've done, that I'm not proud of, and the things that I struggle with, because I'm human just like you, and I think as weโฆ
We do that, it gives permission for that other person toโฆ to also make these changes and be vulnerable and start shifting that ripple effect conversations andโฆ helping the broader picture, the macro picture of everyone, and our attitudes towards health and healing and happiness. But then there's the practical stuff, you know, the actual foundations of health. You know, drink water, good water, eat healthy food, you know, breathe properly, you know, socially connect, something so understated, the amount of social connectedness in our life is so, so important. You know, do we have a connection to something bigger than himself, the divine, however you want to frame that? You know, are you moving your body, your beautiful body? You know, there's that stuff as well. And start with the foundations.
Mason:
Man, I love it. You're in Perth?
Eddie:
I have a birth.
Mason:
Are you doing, you're doing online stuff as well, right?
Eddie:
Yeah, yeah, I treat people all over the country, internationally, you know, this day and age with technology, we just, we can consult anywhere. So, no, it's very easy to connect with me.
Mason:
Yeah, I love it. Wellโฆ If you're feeling it, everyone, you know if you're feeling it, get in touch with Eddie. What's the website? Is it Eddie,
Eddie:
HittingInabird.com.
Mason:
E-N-E-V-E-R.
Eddie:
Yeah, like Never Neverland, but E, never, E, never. Eddie, E-D-I-E-E-N-E-V-E-R dot com. Most of my stuff's on there. Yeah, socials, same deal, you can find me, pretty easy to find.
Mason:
You've got, we'll put the Instagram, but the Instagram's the same, easy to find, but you've got really great videos whenever, yeah, I really appreciated how awesome your videos were on Instagram.
Eddie:
Thank you.
Mason:
Love it. Thank you so much.
Eddie:
Well, thank you for the opportunity to have this convo.
Mason:
Yeah, I meanโฆ Oh, we love cutting to the, you know, cutting to the core of it. You seem to be willing toโฆ like, this isโฆ
Eddie:
Bring it, bring it on. We're on.
Mason:
Yeah, I mean, that's it, we're likeโฆ
Eddie:
We have to. We have to.
Mason:
Oh, that's a Mac.
Eddie:
Sure, that's the thing that cancer teaches you. Life's frickin' fragile, it's short, get to the core.
Mason:
Alright, everyone, you heard it. Life's too short. Get onto it. You're on. You're on! Get on, turn it on. Alright, love you, everybody. Thanks, Eddie.
