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"Our society and scientific way of looking at our world in life doesn't give all the answers to how we are feeling and this feeling part, people need more explanation and exploration. Human Design is a way, a tool, and a map for people to actually explore that for themselves."  - Kohta Mitamura
 

Kohta Mitamura joins Mason for a deep dive into the guiding principles of Human Design. Speaking graciously to technology's influence on the rise of individualisation, Kohta shares his insights on how the principles of Human Design can enable individuals to harness their unique genius and apply that knowledge to create communities that transcend the moralistic world views often imposed on them by birth.

Drawing on his extensive knowledge of both permaculture farming and Human Design, Kohta explores the correlation between these systems and how their foundational aspects can be utilised to gain self knowledge and create harmony on both an individual and collective level.

Ultimately we can understand Human Design as a self regulating open sourced profiling system, founded on a backbone of astrology, the chakra system, Kabbalah and the teachings of the I Ching. Human Design offers a mechanical understanding of the circuitry that all human consciousness is comprised of.

Mason and Kohta met on a permaculture farm in the Northern Rivers many moons ago and it is a delight to have them reconnect through this heartfelt and informative conversation today.

 

Kohta and Mason discuss:

• The foundational principles of Human Design.
• The four profiling types in Human Design.
• How to apply Human Design to your life.
• Using Human Design to create harmony in relationships.
• The relationship between Human Design and Astrology.
• Individual and collective destiny through the lens of Human Design.
• Materialism and belonging.

Who is Kohta Mitamura?

Kohta has spent last 15 years living in farming communities in Hawaii, Australia and Japan. With a mystical yet pragmatic inclination, Kohta found the study of Permaculture and Human Design as foundational frameworks for his pursuit of holistic well being. Kohta is a new staff member at Human Design America and is developing educational materials for their creative individuals. 


Resource guide

Guest
Human Design America

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Check Out The Transcript Below:

 

Mason:

Okay, welcome, Kohta.

Kohta:

Thank you Mason.

Mason:

Yay. We did it. We got here. You're leaving so soon. I always like doing a little podcast with you.

Kohta:

Yeah. Wow. It's exciting to be here and having this time with you.

Mason:

Yeah. So yeah, it's been, I think what? Eight years ago, nine years ago, when I met you up at the permaculture farm. Tanya's Farm.

Kohta:

Yeah.

Mason:

I think a lot of people who have listened to the podcast have heard Tanya and Wolfgang being referenced to a lot of times, but it's here. Human Design is the thing we're here to talk about.

Kohta:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mason:

Obviously. Is that probably where your primary passion ...

Kohta:

Yeah, yeah. I think it just settled into that. I never really thought this was going to be my main thing, but it's been a process. You know? I was studying permaculture with Tanya, but on the background, I was always checking this in. Yeah. But yeah, it feels relevant to what's happening on that.

Mason:

I can't believe how much it's blowing up at the moment as well. That must be interesting for you to watch. How many years ago did you first tune in with your teacher?

Kohta:

I think it was ... oh, let's see, 2013, so about 10 years ago. Hey?

Mason:

Mm-hmm.

Kohta:

Yeah, 10 years ago.

Mason:

Did you know Sebastian? I think he's been on the podcast because Sebastian was into it, probably getting in to it at a similar time. When did you first meet him?

Kohta:

Sebastian? I met him in New Zealand through you connecting us, Mason. That's right. Because I was going to go into New Zealand and then .... yes. Yeah. He had a consultation over there. So we just dropped into that conversation then that was when Sebastian was less busier. We had some interesting moments talking about it. You know. We both knew much less than we know now, but I think great thing about Human Design is we can always drop in from different levels and then really start cultivating our understanding about how things work in our lives based on bits and pieces of knowledge from this system.

Mason:

And this one I'm kind of tracking back. I thought we'd just jumped right into Human Design, but I'm just really got the desire to track back into your story, because you live such an interesting life as well. Meeting you through Tanya, I met Tanya through David Wolfe. You met Tanya living on Noni land in Kawaii Land. Is that right?

Kohta:

Yeah.

Mason:

You were there going deep.

Kohta:

Yeah.

Mason:

I think we both have that in common. The raw food community. I know you had just a few big initiations there. I don't know. Oh. I nearly forgot to mention the kale chip.

Kohta (03:10):

Or coconut chips. Kale chips is something that I was taught to make-

Mason:

Right.

Kohta:

... in California. And then when I went to Hawaii, I just kind of applied that same principle to coconut. But coconut was a lot simpler because it's amazing material.

Mason:

But no one had done that at that time, really.

Kohta:

Yeah.

Mason:

Had they?

Kohta:

Yeah.

Mason:

I mean, in a more modern way.

Kohta:

Way. In a modern way. That's right. That's right. Or in the raw food context, which is ... you know. But it worked out. It worked out. And I think what I was doing back then was really looking into the material and then how that can express its attributes within or the possibility within it. And just trying to connect that to Human Design, I think that's what Human Design wants to tell us too.

(04:05)

If we understand the mechanics of the blueprint, the attributes within us, then we can actually learn to express that. When that comes to beautifully, harmoniously, everybody delighted to see you being that star, right? And raw food was like that to me too. When I first started, my boss had a raw food manufacturing business, and she was like, "You still don't look like a star. You have to look like a star when you are on a raw food." And that really motivated me to just keep going, keep going. I think that took me to Hawaii and meeting with Tanya and all these amazing people, including, you. Yeah.

Mason:

Yeah. That's what did connect us is that. You know? Come on. You can shine brighter than that. You don't need to accept that. And then starts the difficult journey of whether you get lost chasing being a star or whether you take that harmonic route that integrates many. You know? Maybe it's not all about the raw food world. I'm just remembering we've done retreats together up in the hinterland here. You're an incredible chef and we don't need to ... it was just nice to get that backstory there in terms of taking those perma. Tanya is a first generation student of Bill Mollison, really downloading those permaculture principles, which are so precious right now. And then, well, just as precious and then taking them over to Japan and really getting that. What was that one thing you were saying around that was completely different around Japan than here?

Kohta:

Yeah, Japan is so wet and it's already packed with vegetation right. And whereas, permaculture just started with basically how to strategically plant a desert to reforest and be able to live and provide a food for people who live there. Japan is already set up and packed up. We actually had to strategically subtract, take out excess of humidity or any plant matter, in order to live comfortably there. So what we going to have to look at is a different approach in Japan. We can't really incorporate new things to it. We just have to take things out. But I think what's important is our basic understanding of how natural elements work always apply when we are dealing with environment or exploring how to live on this planet. So these fundamental principles of the permaculture definitely is a foundation of what we can do in Japan too. Yeah.

Mason:

So cool.

Kohta:

Mm-hmm.

Mason:

Let's dive into Human Design now. I like to track something, everything, back to its essence, because right now we're at a time. I don't know how it is in your community, and seeing whether you are just seeing the communities explode in more and more people formally taking on being practitioners. I mean, I'm seeing so many people pop up and offering Human Design. You know? Looking at children, how to parent, a manifester generator. That's going crazy, a few people here. It's the interesting thing for me is I've had a few people in talking about the Tao and that principle here, which permeates us. Some, not people within the team, some people going, "Yeah, okay. Cool." And they're standoffish about it going, "I am personally just right now into Human Design." And I'm like, "Oh my god." From the same place. Exactly the same place, and so that's where I really want to just go back into what the source of this was. What's the source idea of Human Design and what does it connect to historically and what role is it playing in creating this map for humanity right now?

Kohta:

I never met a founder of Human Design system, but this was downloaded by one particular guy, Ra, and I never got to meet him. I made Human Design only few weeks before he passed, but he was a student of I Ching, the Chinese book of changes, as well as astrology, and different types of mysticism. The modern mystic. Yeah. The modern mystic works, so he had the background. But as who he was, he was a hermit. He was not really connecting with the world in a way that people usually do. He spent many, many, many years in isolation or in his aloneness. Then, when this transmission came through, which you can probably read in various sources about his experience of this initiation, the transmission, all the studies that he had been working, he had been doing, just kind of clicked in, so Human Design system is based on all these western and eastern mystical understanding of human experience.

 

Now, he also started to add on the new discoveries from astronomical world about the planets and the planetary transits to actually make it very modern. What we are experiencing as humanity is going through a lot of leap and changes and quantum leaps. Then in the quantum theory came through recently not as separate from the leap of consciousness. I think that's where we are going. It's like, okay, everything that we have been discovering in the material world, in the scientific world, should really deepen our understanding about human psyche and consciousness.

 

I think that's what Human Design is pointing to and then that's what a lot of people are tuning into ... is our society and scientific way of looking at our world in life doesn't give all the answers to how we are feeling and this feeling part, people need more explanation and exploration. Human Design is a way, a tool, and a map for people to actually explore that for themselves.

Mason:

The reason I really, really loved it, and only first spoke to you about it, I remember being really surprised because Sebastian was into it and I was like, "[inaudible 00:11:11]. Oh. You are into Human Design as well." Because I thought our conversations would go somewhere else and that's where you were planted. And I was like, "Oh, okay. Wow." And the thing where I'm at a lot at the moment is lineage and going back to the source experience or source idea of where something has emerged from. So right now, I'm in modern. I've got modern business elements, yet I do everything I can to go back to the source idea of these Taoist herbs and I can refine my experience going back there. But then, there's also an aspect of what we do that is based, and I have to be based in, the naturopathic and scientific world. I try and go back to the source idea of those.

 

I guess... They're in such opposition. Literally, nothing's more in opposition than the seemingly modern science that's reductionist and real classical Yin Yang transformation medicine. But if you can hold, if you can track them back to the source intention, at some point you can get a sense of where they were connected at one time. And then follow their separation and exploration of their separation. And then the best thing I got from Human Design was like, well, screw all that. We're going to come up with a new thing. It was able to hold opposition and find where opposing languages or systems of living at some point ... And I imagine this is what we've kind of talked a little bit about that experience of Ra, it's just going in and being exposed to multiple ways.

 

There is an actual capacity to integrate here. You know? Even though they look like they're in different dimensions, there's a thread that connects I Ching and astrology that respects their own individual path, but also, we can see where they're diverging now. And therefore, they've separated. Now they're all coming together because of course we're talking about the same thing. We're talking about human life and the universe.

 

I imagine that's something that sucks you in further because there's just, and that's how I feel like. I can just say that's what a lot of people are experiencing at the moment. It's not exclusive. It's not an exclusive theory or philosophy that's in opposition. It's willing and able to talk about everything, which is cool. Let's go into that. Let's go into the major application. You know? The gates, the I Ching is a massive aspect, just a map of what the patterns are coming forward in our own individual lives as a people with a country and as a collective humanity. What's the major draw you feel at the moment?

Kohta:

Yeah, definitely the contemporary aspect of it. Meaning, that we have access to a lot to the world through the internet. Anywhere you have access to the information and the similar sort of database. I think that really expanded the possibility for humanity to come together and connect with other people. But at the same time, that's been a little bit confusing, because now, we can't rely on the existing constitutions and sets of values and cultural causes and all that. Individuals are actually being very affected by this recent transformation of how people get to connect. Now, Human Design is really modern in a way that it's a open source kind of system. Yes, some of these materials are protected and you have to be a student to have access to it, but if you become a student and if you stick with it, it's not something that's super esoteric, because it teaches you how this system is built.

 

That's what sucked me in the beginning, was this very foundational study just like how you learn about food, coconut, or kale. Right? You actually take a look at it, you can actually grow it, you can actually apply it in different ways, and it's just abundant material. It's not something that you have to have a special resource or wealth to get. But you can study it. You can study every day. Then you learn about it and how to apply. Human Design is very similar. It just takes you to each elemental step of learning, hey, this is one of the experiences that human life can have. Let's study it step by step by step. You know? And then that takes you to the next gate and then this is what happens. Then when you have those basic building blocks, you know how things are set up, so it shows you in that way too.

 

Then you come to your type or your personality and there's like a lot of different types, a lot of different angles to come to your type of personality. And when you can learn that, you realise that you are very unique and individual and that you are not bound by the culture that you are born to. You're very individual. Then that's why you can connect with people across the globe through the internet in deeper way than you do with your classmates. Right? Those things must be happening to many people in the world right now.

 

Now, it is difficult at the same time because then you can't feel isolated in your area and not really feeling that, you have good mates to hang out with every weekend. And that can be very difficult. But now, I think we are at the stage where now, based on the experience of being individual, we can now come together and form a new communal unity. You know? It doesn't have to be separated by the nationality or the culture, but we can actually create a new family and then from that we feel very honoured and protected for our values and how we feel about living.

 

Then I think that'd be a lot more interesting thing, because humanity always create different cultures and used to be the regional thing or cultural thing. But now, because we are more individual, individually aware about who we are and what we like and what other people like, which is okay, but then, if we actually extend the understanding of respect to one another, then we should be allowed to create our own unity. Yeah. I'm drawn to that possibility that it's definitely happening in our lifetime.

Mason:

It's a common theme. Because you talked about there you're like yes, there's going to be areas that you need to become a student in order to get access to these areas. There's a certain amount of dedication or you need to be able to show that you've comprehended a particular principle. At the same time, then you used open source. And it's such a common theme to everything that I see as an evolutionary movement. There's that contrast, because if I dip into that part of me, which is very individualistic, and I don't want coming out of rejecting particular schooling institutions, so on and so forth, going into a new environment to say ... maybe not at the moment, but if I was going to go into, say, a Human Design, I'd be like, "Don't tell me what I can and can't get access to." Not that I'm saying that's exactly where I'd be right now, because I wouldn't have been able to hold the dichotomy and this is a very open source.

 

This is evolved. This is self-regulating. This isn't the doctrine of just one individual or one culture or one religion or whatever it is, which is that transformation of humanity. That's kind of where I see this going, been able to hold the values. You mentioned the values and that's what I've been researching, this kind of organisational organism that is self-regulating and is evolutionary. The common threads are there's a membrane around it that is like ... Cool, anyone can come here, but once you step through these walls, and maybe these are the walls that, because they're similar in every organisation, right now, if you want to step into the world of really going and evolving this collective, there are some principles that we know that have been passed down into time immemorial. What is it for Human Design when you step into that world? What are the rules whether they're spoken rules or unspoken rules. Rules is probably the wrong word, even. You know? The principles. You know? Yeah. More that lead to the values or communicate the values because that's really getting that I think more than everyone seeing how important that is. Yeah.

Kohta:

Yeah. I think that's a great point because the simple message of Human Design throughout by Ra is love yourself and it is not love your neighbour or follow their rules to be a good neighbour, right? Love yourself, because from there, the new dimension, new horizon of humanity can flourish. If we can really honour ourselves then we will learn to respect other lives too. That's very foundational. That's the basic message of it.

 

Now, when we talk about Human Design or any of these principles, we really have to come from that place of having cultivated the love and the understanding of ourselves that extends to the one who's right in front of you right now. You know? We can have different degrees and different levels of understanding and knowledge about Human Design of course because there are always teachers and advanced students. But then, when we share the information, how can we put it into the words to really see the other person and be able to support and honour that person's own what we call the authority?

 

That person has a love within about himself or herself and how can we actually honour the way that the person has cultivated the love? That's a process too. It has to be very supportive and empowering way. It cannot be the dogmatic teaching of you have to do this. You know? This is what you do because this is what your type is or what your design says.

 

I think that we have to, as Human Design spreads to the communities and to the world more, that's the kind of language that we really have to cultivate, because let's say even 10, 20, 30 years ago, that kind of language wasn't still really popular. We may still see that kind of languaging in Human Design or talking about Human Design on the internet, but that's not Human Design. The essence of Human Design is, as we spoke, it's something that's very pure. It's more like us catching up with the evolution of the language, evolution of the way that people have been relating to each other in these recent years, to really be able to apply human science, talk about human science. Yeah.

Mason:

Sorry everybody, the way I've been kind of explaining it, because I've really been feeling that ... Just say that's a core purpose or intention. That's the words that we can have to most accurately describe the sense of what this lineage is and what this particular expression of all these lineages that are just wanting to, we are wanting to keep on going on that unification journey and we're wanting to continue to evolve and ride the waves and learning as quickly as possible without going into this is so awful and wrong and we need to repent. Rather than keep on going, keep on going, it's like you can track it through all those lineages. It's the commonality there that led to all those threads that become Human Design. Because it's its own living thing, of course it's like the same way that here, we'd talk about the song, a song line. It's a living thing that needs to get sensed and felt and has an impact and is therefore protected in some way. Naturally, it's just acknowledging its boundary.

 

If I've been feeling that the same with SuperFeast here, and therefore when I feel it, sometimes people will want to come in here because I haven't placed a boundary or a gate to be like, "Hey, just so you know, you're stepping into a world here where this is the intention," and you have a look on your face the way you are coming into a desert. Interesting, actually, thinking about your difference between permaculture and Australia and Japan, I'm like, "All the while, I've been using is ... you think this is a desert because you've spent most of your time in the desert, in business and at work. But this is a rainforest."

 

Although there's connections, if you think that your way of doing things and your rules and the things that you like doing are going to apply here in terms of the way that you communicate, the way you approach your job, and whether there's the principles around having the capacity to know that you are operating a role, you are in no way that role ever. You never will be. You are never, ever going to be that title. That kind of stuff. Or likewise, you have to care enough to communicate. If you feel something with charge. You have to communicate it, which is a difficult one and you need to put mechanisms in place but you cannot let it fester. Because if you do, the whole thing will die in this rainforest.

 

You've been in a desert of a business where you can get away with that because it's a different model. But that's like the spade's a spade and that's when hearing you talk about, like we were talking a little bit about earlier, about that not going into a place of judgement of what humanity has done is awful and bad that. So let's just look at anyone who's coming to Human Design, not that I've seen this or think it's actually possible because I think it's really well put together, but who wants to get into it because they starting in a place of judgement of themselves or life is difficult, therefore, I'm going to go to Human Design. That process. Where would they end up? That seems like such an intrinsic value of Human Design in order to keep on moving. You know? And you've talked a bit about Ra, I'd love to hear about Ra's attitude to when you judge things that humanity's done.

Kohta:

Yeah, I think Ra said this in his own way many times too, but if we keep judging or insisting on that model of the moralistic worldview, you're going to become obsolete in this evolution of humanity because what Ra said about where we are headed is, "We are all going to have to be a role model of who we are to represent our unique design in order to exist in this world," and that's just how you are saying about the rainforest system. It's not something that only you have planted there, but there's going to be all different sorts of new vegetation and organisms somehow come through. As you see you've seen in the evolution of permaculture farm, in 20, 30 years, there's going to be new things, like a lot more delicate and complex organisms that you will find on the surface of rocks or under the ground.

 

You didn't plant it there, but it just happens because that was their way of taking on the role that was there. And in the desert, you may not expect as much of that kind of happening or the surprise of new creation, because if we just teach people or teach or set up a environment in a way that it just follows the principles, then nothing much will evolve. But we are at a very different time in our human history now. There can be a lot that is possible. Then, we have to step into the world as a role model, representing ourselves, and everybody should come together together with who we are through our authority not following this doctrine or not following this school though, but it's all available. We have access to anything and we are allowed to believe anything, but at the same time, let's represent what we believe in through our walk of life and not by the school that we associate.

 

More than anything, I think Human Design should really advocate that kind of approach and it's not like we do either Human Design and I'm this type and I'm an analyst and this is what I do. No. We have to be very open and good about, okay, if we know, interest in Human Design, we should be interested in where it came from. We should be interested in this person Ra who downloaded and he was a human being too. What was his experience while he was committed to find this sources and establish this system and also worked for 20 years lecturing massive amount of materials and left us so many references? Who was he and why did he talk about Human Design in the way that he did? That was because of his design too.

 

When we are able to just shift the perspectives which Human Design enables you to do, because when you learn about Human Design chart, you can look at your own chart to study the basics, but then you can look at the people in your family, the charts of in your family, and charts of your business associates, and really understand and cultivate understanding for that person's way of looking at things. Then we get to actually get the holistic picture of it. Okay. Then, exactly the principle that pure essence of this was like that, even though we all have limited perspective on that essence. If we are able to gain a few more perspectives on that, then I think we can deepen the understanding of that.

Mason:

The thing I think the most excites me ever in any system ... One, when it's in the sense that it's not a strict rule per se, but just based on the principles and the application. I imagine you can only go so far as a practitioner if you are not really in that place of loving yourself, it's going to get stand out and the community's going to be able to help you and the principle's going to be able to help you regulate yourself back into a place where that's occurring. But the thing that then excites me the most is just when we talk about what's going to be coming forth in the next few decades in the sense of we're at a particular time, whether it's a rocky time maybe, and lots of new things happening.

 

Just because it's rocky externally, maybe it doesn't need to be rocky internally, but how to not get sucked in, anything that is able to help that is expanding as its own philosophy, which is based in very deep tradition. Because that's what I don't really love about a lot of people modernising things, is they don't keep connected to a thread of a pattern that goes back as far as we possibly can so that we are kind of steeped in some sort of encyclopaedic truth. But then, going forward, something that helps us cultivate a place, which is I think that self-love, I would agree, to not get caught up in ... We're about to go into AI, we are going into full computer integration.

 

As you said, there's like, there's certain topics like autism being in crazily on the rise, and then there's like that people fighting about it. Some would say it's connected to pharmaceuticals, other people know it's connect to pharmaceuticals. Maybe some people are like, "Yeah, there's some truth. It'll just be nice to ..."Whatever. You know? Not getting sucked into the ... you know. We're going to go to smart cities. All this stuff is coming. And so it's like, well, how do we approach this then? I like Human Design's take on. Which, let's talk about that. Yeah.

Kohta:

Yeah. Yeah. I think what Human Design is known for is typing of personalities. Then there are different ways of typing within Human Design system. But what it's known for is basically this four types. Type differentiation, just to mention at this point, is that that's not how Human Design started. Human Design started from the very foundation of it. So when Ra was teaching Human Design, this type differentiation topic came later. It was not what he came out with. He came out with the study of each gate, its circuit. You know? He just showed this map of human body graph. It's called nine centre chakra system wired together with different channels. He talked about each one of them. That was starting of his lectures. Then deducting from that understanding, he deducted this type differentiation from that understanding of how things are wired.

 

It's just this deep and foundational mechanical understanding of the circuitry that makes up human consciousness that concluded that there are four different types just looking at how different centres, different parts of this consciousness work. Then, from those types, he also deducted strategy. What's called strategy is how each of these types can make decisions. This strategy thing is very esoteric. Then, that's where people in Human Design community can go dogmatic, because unless you take a lot of time and contemplation on this topic, you wouldn't really connect the dots of why this strategy is assigned to this type or how this type have actually been determined by certain configuration of this circuitry.

Mason:

Yeah. You're teaching a tool which wasn't the core essence. The typing was like, well, we're going to use this only in context that it's useful for us to understand this more foundational elements of Human Design.

Kohta:

Yeah. And also we understand that kind of typing and using a practical application that people can just run with, that's great for getting this information out into the world, because people don't have much time to study all these things for 10 years. But it's important that's something practical that they can grab and then applied up to their lives. But because we have different types and we have different ways of making decisions about our lives either by responding through our sacral, or the Dantian response or waiting for a recognition, if we recognise certain good value or something that we can do. So the first one is the response, and then the second one would be the waiting for recognition, either of within ourselves or from other people about what we can do. The third one would be to really let people know before we take actions.

 

The fourth one is just to be available and just to be free in terms of experiencing one thing to another. It's just kind of random thoughts of, oh, is that how I should really honour in terms of following my day-to-day experience? But when we start to honour that somehow our experience of life become consistent even though there are good days and bad days and painful experiences and pleasurable things. But what we are looking for through Human Design studies, we want to have a consistent life of living our own unique path.

 

I think that's related to what you were saying in your questions. Okay, how do we come to that place where everybody can become their role model? And then what does Human Design say about it? There's no doctrine, but the same time, Human Design gives this tool. If you are this type, the general four types is a very generalised concept, but if you follow a strategy given to your type, then you will actually get to have the experience in described in Human Design system. Then the rest is yours. But just have this as a torch with this map and the strategy is a torch that's given to you.

Mason:

Yeah. I mean something's bubbling in humanity, and the capacity to have connecting principles, yet have people cultivating their own unique way of expressing love and the very, very unique way of loving themselves and expressing themselves ... It's just so funny at the moment just because there's so much complete institutionalisation. Then at the same time, suddenly this exploding of this ancient wisdom at a time when there was no need for extreme industrialisation because we didn't have that explosion of population. And so you can feel that contrast at the moment. I think that's where you can see the dogma come about, where it's like which one's the right side? The right side is the one that's anti-establishment, even though this is an establishment of a principle over here in that self-love sovereign place. You can't be anti-establishment because something's established there, or the institution completely anti anyone questioning how we are to approach resolving our health issues and healing and so on and so forth.

 

You can see it's an exact application of where you can either sit in one or two of these camps, but then, the principles, and I think it's every organisation or every thing that has a name that I have a positive association with at the moment, like Human Design or evolutionary organisations, whatever they are, their principles are designed to keep you in that slippery place where you don't have to attach to either wrong or right and opposing force. But it does. The commonality is it's just like let's come back to ourselves and love ourselves and then spill over. You know? But be unique.

 

I think the number one thing is let's ground in principles that we know work that don't detract from our own unique expression. So it's about how to just ground in. And this is where, going back to the readings I've had with you in Human Design, which maybe we can go a little bit into the personality typings, because all it's done is it's helped me just get a little bit of perspective of how I work to remain within that space of evolution between order and chaos. You know?

 

I like feeling like I've been on the edge of the universe. Sometimes I've been really in just completely in chaos. And sometimes I'll go back and I'll go right to the centre where it's order and I'm scared from that chaos and been able to sit on that edge and go appropriately into chaos and then into order and be in that process, to be really there in that process of evolution. That's what I got. That's what I really took from Human Design and the principles. Why are they hard to understand? I've had a difficulty in understand. Any principle that's worth getting, that's or a rule that's worth getting, is going to take a process that's time tested to embody so you can get a new interdimensional perspective say on something. It really landed for me. It took me a few years and you were totally like, what's my type again, man?

Kohta:

It's called manifestor, emotional manifestor.

Mason:

I'm a very emotional manifestor. Like anything, like the same with astrology and being a map, but this integral map that keeps on going and is not stagnant. This living, breathing map, which is really appropriate at times, which is Human Design. I think you were saying, for me, there's a part of you that goes out and experiences things, new things, and then comes back and integrates it and shares what that experience is, which is literally going into chaos and then coming back into order. Being aware of that pattern, I've realised how I've created chaos for everyone else at times because I didn't actually have an understanding of that pattern within that whatever, all these molecules and atoms that I am that have a particular consciousness and makeup and my gates that are moving in a particular river, a direction of Qi transformation.

 

I've just been able to sit within that principle. It's taken me years. It's taken me so many years to really get that and then communicate to people why I have to go out and spread my wings again and how to under.. Slow down for myself and understand how to set it up so that I'm not impeding on anyone else when I do that. Then the second one, I remember you said to me, I'd just gotten back from a trip and I just had to sit in my car in Sydney for a while, and you were like, "Sometimes do you have to go into your cave and just be alone and just do you ever sit in your car?" I was like, "Oh my God, I just did that two days ago." They're my two most profound experiences so far. I've taken steps backwards into myself, which isn't backwards in my progression. I think you've talked about this. When you have the map, you can go in multiple directions and I've taken that step back going, "I really want to understand this pattern in order to have the capacity to love."

 

Let's go into these, because that's the thing with that invisible deep intention of self-love. It's the only thing that gave me context of how to approach this rule that I have in terms of being an emotional manifestor, because I don't care for any of those labels long term because I know what they are. They're tools. But it needs to go somewhere. That was I really appreciated about your approach is you were like, as you are delivering it, you are making it slippery that I couldn't. My mind's like, "Great, manifestor. I know how to live to be happy now." And it's like you slip. You put slipperiness on it. You just cover it with oil so that I couldn't grab a hold of it. And then it was like, great. Now this is your practise now. And the practise will evolve. Yeah, I just love to hear about your experience of delivering these kinds of principles.

Kohta:

Wow. Wow. It was rewarding to hear how you experienced the analysis many years ago and what you came out of it. The first thing that you said about how you can actually communicate to people in your life about the dynamic of creative or exploration time and the integration time in your life, that was a natural part of your process always, is what we discussed, mentioned as strategy for your type. Because that's such a natural part of you and without that process you don't live. Right? So you know want to get out there and have new experiences, but at the same time, certain times, you have to just really think about it. Just integrate that experience in your cave so that you can actually see what's coming next and be prepared and just basically get to share that, what you have learned from those experiences with other people.

 

What your strategy says is you want to be able to communicate that while or before that's happening, not just as after the fact, because after the fact you will share that because that's part of the process, but what strategy says is even though it's big counterintuitive, when it's still happening or when it's about to happen, can you communicate with people? "Hello. I'm in this process right now," or, "I can see this process coming, so I may be in my cave more often than usual. I just wanted you to know that I'm okay and I will definitely share this experience with you when it's done."

 

When people are informed about that, the aspect of you, that actually makes it easier for them to have you in their lives as well as you being in their lives. This whole thing about strategy is really to be able, for us to be able to come together, because these different type differentiation is about, okay, we are different types. Right? You know. Different types of plants, when they coexist a garden, they have to take on their own positions and they have to have their own aspects. Otherwise, you can't a plant in the shade and expect them to thrive there. They have to be in the sun, but there are plants that needs to be in the shade because they're going to get burnt in the sun. That is the strategy, the strategic planting. We are applying the same principle for different types of people. So strategy is very important for us to be able to thrive in our community. Yeah. Yeah. That was that. There was another thing that you were saying. Very important, but ... Yeah. Yeah.

Mason:

What was the other part? I mean, I mentioned, because I get addicted to strategy and I get lost in it very quickly. I think it's important. This is probably why I think I would say it took this conversation five years to happen. I've had a podcast for five years at least, or longer, but probably how long I've been saying we should have it, but not feeling the capacity to connect to the core principles and the essence which spans, I think, from what I can understand, it's easy for me to get lost in this is all Ra's doctrine, but Ra has shown his work and his history so, again, it's open source. You can see that every wisdom tradition that was worth its salt and effective in helping us move along in this direction has been the custodian of this evolutionary human experience.

 

Whatever's happened along the way, every single one of them that's, again, worth their salt, is like, did things happen which are undesirable? Yeah. Is it bad? Well, who are we? It is. It is. And there's an in inherent trust of humanity. You know? I've had conversations around do humans have a parasitic nature? Yeah. Do parasites have a role? Yeah. And are humans also completely loving at this? Can they either have that capacity? Yeah. So we don't get stuck in the one dimension here that they just facilitate this ongoing journey. There's many people doing it. There's many places doing it, but this one is follow back to Ra and you follow back to what he studied and you watch that core principle and you can experience it when you go to true essence of the Tao, of the Vedas, of every wisdom, tradition. You follow it back to this feeling and this sense that's driving all of this human exploration.

 

That's where I'd have to start, I have to have the capacity to go back to, before I get into these strategies and get lost in the mind and the ego again in terms of just having a strategy and unconsciously using it just to get success. I think I just needed to sit in the back seats for a while. But anyway, that was my feeling there. And then the other thing I wanted to really look into is ... I mean loved the fact that the trigram is there, that the gates, really dipping into the reality of what we know. We're talking about something when we're talking about chakras. How does that apply to this day and age? I love that the map is integral while also honouring the unique language of each of the places where it's coming from. It's a hard thing to do to layer traditions on top of each other. It needs a download.

 

For me, that's what a download is, is an ability to look between the interdimensional reality of say, Shambala and I Ching and not just go, "Oh yeah, it's like that. And that one's like that." To be able to go, "Whoa, this is how they're mapping different aspects of the same thing with a completely different worldview and time view. And this is how we evolve it," which as I'm sure happened with the I Ching and the Tao at times. There were different shamans who were like, "No, this is it. No, this is it." And then there's an integral space where the download happens? You're like, "Whoa, we're talking about the same thing here."

 

And then from all of that, being able to perceive with sovereignty, our own map, our own, and then I don't know why. One of my most fascinating things is places on the earth and being able to map, look at those maps and those lines and those lay lines and really feeling where you at particular stages are resonating, in terms of visiting, learning, living, resting. I haven't actually been able to go back and really look at it, but I know it's going to impact me. I think about it a lot. It was the first thing, I think one of the first things you ever said. I just want to hear more about that because it seems like why unify the world if it doesn't open us up in our uniqueness to be able to do that and explore that?

Kohta:

Yeah, the movement in life, the movement through time. Those are the two most fascinating thing about I think living human life. And there's nothing static about our experience. Even though this wisdom just so profound and they have really nailed certain aspects of the truth, but when we expect that to be that way or when we expect something to continue like that, it's never going to be the real experience of what we can get. And that slipperiness that you are saying about, it's just so slippery to really understand who we are, especially ourselves, is the most slippery thing. We are always on the edge like, "Oh, I have to do this, but then this happens and then now I have to do that." But somehow we get to live each moment day by day, and somehow we get to master that way of living our own life path.

 

And the strategy of Human Design is ready to just hold us on the line. Even though it's counterintuitive, if we just surrender to the limitation of what we can do, because this process that we all have, the dynamism of living our life, is the limitation, because we can't be any other way. And those things, the trait of our attributes, are written in design, and then that gives this, proposes this solution. If you follow this counterintuitive strategy and see what happens, see if you can actually still walk on the line, most people find that those are very valuable insight to walk their unique path. I think from there, we actually get to connect with what's beyond us. Because the important part is we keep going. We keep living whatever is given to us this timeline of human life.

 

It's not that long even compared to some of the planets coming around in a circle. We don't get to live full circle of Neptune or Pluto, those planets. That's also a part of the calculation for Human Design chart. And we only get to live about 84 years, which is the cycle of Uranus. Human Design actually do calculations for different returns, different points in our life, that some shifts in our experience, in our consciousness start to happen. And when we superposed that moment, that Human Design chart to your natal chart, we actually get to assess where we are headed and what the mission of our life is. Very specific. And then that resonates deeply within us. Then we feel called to something else or called to go to this place.

 

It's really a map and it's just map of the journey of life. Right? So different timings, different experiences come through, because we have done all these different experiences that took us to this place. The karmic things about humanity too. You know? Those are just the foundation of what we are experiencing here now. Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing to really deny about those things, but we really have to have a good understanding of it sometimes. Go back to it and apply a new understanding and insights about those instance.

 

But then the important thing I think is keep going, keep going. There's no doomsday catastrophic prophecy around Human Design system, which I think is very supportive and encouraging to live in this time. It's like, no. This is just a map. Can we as individuals take this journey on and be responsible for the life that we are given and this timeframe that we get to live? You know? We are just given this time to live right now under this condition on this planet, and here's a map. And that's your Human Design.

Mason:

Well, not only a map. It's hard to have a map that focuses on individual sovereignty and unique expression while at the same time having a base understanding of how we can do that and have the right to do that, but also have a unifying purpose so that our unique expression doesn't need to go into a competitive I'm right and you are wrong. And this is I guess why it's a principle of any wisdom, tradition, and Human Design, that please do not go into that judgement of this wrong and right, because if you have that principle and you don't understand how it's possible ... I'm going to put in a languaging around win-win, you know? I can have my unique expression and I can have at least the intention to be unified with every other human being so that we're all unique. We don't have to be homogenised. We don't have to be a part of a big stiff institution in order to get us behaving correctly. Y.

 

You can be fully expressed and I can understand the principles or try and learn about even expressing, caring enough, about other people to express or get good at knowing and loving myself so I can say, "Hey, I am about to go through this process. Just so I don't really don't want to be a detrimental force to you, because at the same time, as much as I want love for me, I want you to have that love for yourself." It's very difficult. Well, whatever. That's the judgement . It's such a big puzzle at the moment. It seems like an impossible task. That's why I like having these podcasts because we can go in and get really big picture and aspirational, go back into the world. It's like, cool. Well now, then it's very practical to have tools and be like, "Your job is to know yourself. Get into that pattern, go on your unique journey," and as long as we have that aspirational core purpose, of unification, say, or love, individual love and unification, then.. More the merrier. Yeah.

Kohta:

Yeah. That specific place of ourselves in this world, in the holistic picture of humanity, is also a great detail that Human Design gives. Beyond these generalised four types, they'll give you deeper understanding about what cross of incarnation that you are on.

Mason:

What is it?

Kohta:

It's called cross of incarnation, like a cross. Like a Jesus, like something that you're carrying for the purpose of this incarnation.

Mason:

Would that also be in the realm of your karma when we talk about-

Kohta:

Sure.

Mason:

Yeah.

Kohta:

Yeah, so that's a kind of mission that you are here to fulfil, but you can approach that mission as who you are through your type and using your strategy and so on. When we do that, because these different themes of incarnation topics is mapped out and they are all connected with each other. In a way, yes, as one of the four types, we are playing a role in this society, in the family, in the world, to work with each other. But at the same time, we are all carrying a specific purpose, like specific mission, to bring down to this planet and then contribute to the evolution of humanity. That becomes very concrete, right? What we are here for. But the same time, that is all for the greater mission of what humanity is here to do.

 

That's, I think, the fine balance between the individualism and socialism and collectivism, right? Because yes, we want to work together, but we also want to be unique and be honoured for our individuality as well, so there's an answer. We all have a specific mission described in this incarnation cross, but at the same time, those incarnation crosses are also interconnected to all other missions that everybody else is doing. Together, we are moving humanity upward.

 

It is almost like this collective consciousness is represented by the colony of bees or ants and we see individual insects, but that's not them. They are actually that colony. You know? That's the consciousness for them. But if you look at individual insects, then they are doing each work, right, each role. They're playing. Here's one bee going this and there's another one going that way and doing that work. Then that's just a little bit like that. We don't really know how they're experiencing this life, but that must be pretty amazing. They're just totally committed to what they're doing, but all connected to that colony, that consciousness. Then they're all just dedicated to do that with joy and just buzzing with the life force. Just to imagine that kind of living and working on this planet is very inspiring to me.

Mason:

Yeah. I mean, swimming in the same direction and bees are the perfect example of, I think, I can't even remember the P word, that [inaudible 01:05:47] use ... A position where the bees have all one mission, getting nectar. I'm not saying that's the exact purpose of their life, but it seems like that thing, getting nectar, getting out there and turning it into food, so that they can keep the colony going, creates life on earth. Even though that's their purpose, it has utility. The purposefulness is life itself, love itself. And humans, we have the ability to tilt it and to make our direction going forward. Rather than it being utility of survival, which has been good at times. We've had that. We're now at a time we're able to tilt it where the north star is say love, unity. Unity within ourselves, unity and just going.

 

Now we trust, whereas the bees would have utility and then purpose came up the side. Now our purpose is love, and we know that the utility of having enough, the staff not having resources run out, is going to come off the side of that. And if we, as individuals, collective of businesses, collective of governments, it's a very rocky time. But if we all just like ... Okay, our end point we know is love. I have to be able to trust that, say, if you're in America, I have to be able to trust that Russia or the Muslim faith, even if you say you're deep in it, it's someplace I have to be able to trust that it's love. Even though this is going to be messy, it's going to be rocky, I want to swim in that same direction and trust that humans and institutions and governments are all trying to go on that direction.

 

If some of them are caught in a place where they're against the principle, well, rather than fighting it, let's create such momentum that they become ancient, that they don't operate anymore, because they're not driven by love, and therefore they're not driven by us all swimming in that same direction. Again, I know I get very macro in this and it can seem like idealistic, but whatever. It's a north star of how to point myself and helps me get out of my shit, and so I can get slippery and on that line again. I think that's every time I go into the Human Design, that's what it has built into it. It gets me back into that space and I'm like, "Okay, all right. Yeah, that's right. I can." You know?

Kohta:

Yeah. Love is that love yourself. That is the basic message. Loving ourselves is accepting ourselves, right? And if we accept what it is that humanity has done to the planet or to the humanity itself, then there's a new dimension that opens up, because it's not about trying to fix anything, as you are saying. There's nothing to fix it, because we are always this creative force. And then we can be driven to that trajectory only through the direction of love as we accept, as we expand, as we keep trusting on this direction. I think the theme is really to get onto that flow as a collective, as individuals. Somehow, we all come together in that flow.

Mason:

Yeah, I think it's definitely where we're at. Mean, you look at in my own life, of course, I'm like, "Yay. I get this." There's so many things I'm trying to fix or I'm trying to go back and maybe repent or things where I feel like I've been destructive or people have been destructive to me and just been able to sit there. Okay. Well, if again, every wisdom tradition, but then, you can see there's very quickly, there can be a bypass of forgiveness. You know? Yeah. Forgive everything. I don't. I know I don't. Then, I'm going to just sit in it and navigate that space. That's where I know we're all just sitting in that ship in terms of not judging what humanity's done. You can't just say that. And this is where you are talking about, I guess, in anything that's worth its salt, again, like say, Human Design.

 

If we want to really get access to these different dimensions, then maybe it's going to take years. It's not better or worse, but it takes a lot of work to do the practises, to be able to have the capacity to really experience that you are not trying to fix yourself or the planet. It's a huge practise to not default into that space, but even just remembering that perhaps that's our destiny is that direction. It's like, okay, well maybe it's okay that I'm going to keep on sitting in my experience right now until that is really embodied to a certain extent. That's really where the love can explode and you can be a shining light. Yeah. Be the star.

Kohta:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there can be alienating training, initiating, [inaudible 01:11:36] kind of moment and phases in our lives. But then, when we come out of that with that such deep experiences, then we actually come to a place where we really belong. To feel, to experience that, we really belong to this world. Even though, no, I know that I'm very different than all of the people that I've met and all other people are doing their mission and I admire that. But at the same time, there's a very special place that's been given to my life path that is equally part of this collective whole movement that humanity is going for. That's a really amazing thing. Even though it's not how you are connected to how you belong to your culture or how you belong to your family or company, but there are experiences that we can feel internally that, wow, I actually have connected with life.

 

I connected with the humanity at large, even to the people that I have never met, I will never meet, and that's part of being human. You know? We can have that kind of expanded consciousness thing in with different modalities perhaps, but really having that in the sober way, having spent so many much time experimenting and just going through your process, and be able to drop into that flow of, oh, actually, this spending time on this planet, in this chaos, in this process, that's always slippery. But somehow, I'm holding on with a deep understanding that there's actually a value and meaning to the way I'm experiencing and existing in this world.

 

When everyone can have that, that's about loving them oneself. Right? And then when everybody comes to the plate with that awareness, then that's got to communicate even without speaking to each other or just saying words to each other. That kind of vibration will make it really work. You know? That's where we are headed. That's where we can go, because a lot of people, individuals are not now going through strife. They are actually going through a big process, big changes. new challenges, but as we support each other to do that work individually, but in this vision that you know are mentioning about. Okay, love, what does that mean? How can we be guided by that big theme for humanity? Then we probably will come through, come back to it with the love within our heart.

Mason:

I mean, yeah, because if you try and think about the solutions, they're not there. But if you understand the principle of that self-regulation, that love, there's a richness there that money possessions can't even touch that unique expression. You know? You can watch everyone jumping ahead and going, "Oh, well, it has to be through us telling everyone how to be good and how to be loving without them experiencing it," or it needs to be giving everyone a certain amount of money so they're free. It's like, yeah, okay. Maybe eventually that will emerge in a mature way, but yeah. Sometimes, and I have the tendency to go and fix something that's wrong, and I jump ahead to, yeah, that's the shell of the solution, but it's not dripping in our own self-love and emerging like a spring water. It's like we're drilling into the mountain to get the spring water rather than letting it pop up at its own accord. If people are listening and they really wanted to connect with you, are you findable at the moment?

Kohta:

I will be in this year. I'm going to be a part of my new staff members at humandesignamerica.com, and I will be listed as a staff member. On that page, there will be descriptions for the services that I will be offering. At the same time, at this moment, I'm still interested in pursuing my own investigations and studies with my teachers and senior students, so I'm happy working as a part of the team. As a Human Design America team, we are going to be coming up with new materials and recordings and audios and some of the projects that I think I will be in charge of leading. If you guys are listening to this podcast here, can check up humandesignamerica.com. We're going to be having some fresh materials, fresh insights that you may not really find in anywhere else on the internet.

Mason:

So good. Just to leave us on in inner circles, I mean the core circles, I should say, of Human Design. When you are all talking to each other at a senior level, you've been there for a long time, is there a common theme of what's coming up that you are finding you are having to regulate yourselves around? Is something pushing on you guys that is making it more challenging to communicate? Or is there something, especially as a big insight that everyone is getting on the inside? I'm just curious what's going on in the inner circle?

Kohta:

Yeah. Everybody in our circle is definitely feeling the need to transform the languaging of Human Design, how we communicate this deep concept. Right? And then it cannot be just official or dogmatic, which is easy to do, because when we just want to keep talking about Human Design, it's easy to fall into the sets of vocabulary and phrases that's been cliche, but just just fits into that frame of describing. You know? As students who's been associated with this for a long time, we've been thinking about it and just involved with it and then have had numerous conversations with peers about those concepts, and then we now feel, really, the need to freshen up our vocabulary. That's one of the projects that we are doing here at Human Design America. Also, I wanted to go back to what you said, Mason, about people being ready to be touched while the society is still based on running on materialism and people trying to fill up the void, which can be touched, but by the materialistic needs. Right? That's the part that will be transforming in the experience of humanity.

 

There's a specific part in Human Design polygraph that talks about materialism. That is a very complex place because we don't really have the vocabulary and words to describe what it can be, so we just can rely on the vocabulary of materialistic world to describe that. But how can we actually come up with a new way of understanding and explaining that part of Human Design with this experience of basically belonging? Materialism is basically how we feel fulfilled in connection to the world that supports us, that really facilitates our existence here. There's a mutual sense of belonging, the planet, the world, the community, our family, accepts us to be here and really entrusts us to be a good steward of this place. Right?

 

There's this mutual sense of belonging. If we can reciprocate that feeling and just really feeling touched and, okay, this is a purpose that this is the reason that I'm here, I'm allowed to be who I am here, then I think this whole obsession of the materialism can start to shift. But what we needed to do, to really initiate that process, is like, how can we actually replace this old sets of vocabulary and languaging describing our experiences in the world? And so Human Design is very logical and a kind of academic thing because we actually have to upgrade our operation system based on this language.

Mason:

I love it and I love watching that process happen in various groups because you're right, I mean, that's the nature of having the ability to sense and feel this thing that's coming through. And of course, some people will go, "Yeah, right. Well, you're going to sit around and logically create new things," but not the process of really feeling and going, "What can we all sense is objectively here?" We're not going to make it up and come up with a new good idea and then create new words for it. You know? It's like everyone's got a feel and sense. That's a huge process.

Kohta:

Yes.

Mason:

But I love hearing about it because you use the word stewardship. Whether you're a steward or that you're a steward of these ideas and that's part of where love can come from, is we feel a separation. It's not ours. We don't own it. We're on our own, but we get to be in a relationship with this, and that's so freeing in itself. And so it's exciting. I'm really excited to see what's coming through in a group of people like you guys really sitting.

 

Everywhere, you see indigenous elders coming together and doing the same in all places in the world. They're like, "We're really going to come together and sense what is this coming through right now and how can we be stewards and foster this emergence, and then have our absolute sovereignty and then also feel our purpose to bring it into fulfilment as well?" It's a very exciting time, so I'll be watching what comes through there.

 

Yeah, and I know you're not on social media or anything anywhere. I think maybe there's an old photo of you, I think, still up at my website. Oh, maybe. Actually, I just did recently. I hadn't changed the pictures from when we last did a retreat, so there was a picture of you I think cooking there on my website at one stage. But we'll find a photo of you so everyone can see it on this, because you're hard to find.

Kohta:

Oh.

Mason:

Thank you. Oh my gosh, this has been fun, so you are going to come back here. You're coming back to Australia regularly enough again.

Kohta:

Yeah.

Mason:

Yeah.

Kohta:

Yeah. Yeah. This is such a special place for me, so I've got to. I've got to.

Mason:

I think maybe next time it would be really fun, since I think this is as well for me as much as everyone else, getting a real broad understanding. Next time, perhaps we can really get some questions, because it's gaining so much popularity and you've got such a deep connection. We can really get some questions and answers and really dynamic questions from the community coming through. I'm feeling it would be really fun.

Kohta:

Yeah, that would be. That'd be a really fun experience.

Mason:

Yeah. All right, well, safe journeys back to Japan. See you next time.

Kohta:

Thanks, Mason. Yes.