We're bringing you another golden episode of The Women's Series today as Tahnee chats to Nadine Artemis, founder of the divine holistic skin and oral care wellness brand, Living Libations (if you haven't checked out their products, you need to). Nadine is also the author of Renegade Beauty and Holistic Dental Care, two inspiring books that encourage people to rethink conventional notions of beauty and wellness and provide how-to knowledge for those seeking holistic alternatives to chemical-laden products. As her book title suggests, Nadine walks a path of renegade beauty. She is successfully setting a new standard regarding what we put in and on our bodies, one that puts integrity before profit. More of this, please!
This conversation is a reminder to look beyond the artfully marketed beauty products full of toxic ingredients to the inherently flawless mother nature. The ladies talk holistic and progressive dental care, and Nadine shares some simple holistic oral care steps you can do at home every day. Be sure to tune in and check out some of the great resources we've listed below.
Tahnee and Nadine discuss:
Who is Nadine Artemis?
Nadine Artemis is the author of the two holistic health books Renegade Beauty: Reveal and Revive Your Natural Radiance and Holistic Dental Care. She is the creator of Living Libations, a luxury line of organic wild-crafted non-GMO serums, elixirs, and essential oils for those seeking the purest of the pure botanical natural health and beauty products on the planet.
Artemis is an innovative aromacologist, developing immune-enhancing formulas and medicinal blends for health and wellness. Her healing creations, along with her concept of renegade beauty, encourage effortlessness, eschew regimes, and inspire people to rethink conventional notions of beauty and wellness. Her potent dental serums are used worldwide and provide the purest oral care available.
Nadine is a key speaker at health and wellness conferences and a frequent commentator on health and beauty for media outlets. She has received glowing reviews for her work in The Hollywood Reporter, GOOP, Vogue, People, Elle, Yoga Journal, Natural Health, W Magazine, The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and National Post.
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Check Out The Transcript Here:
Hi, everybody, and welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. Today, I am super excited to be talking to Nadine Artemis, who is the founder of Living Libations, which is an amazing line of serums and elixirs and body care, hair care, and my personal favourite, essential oils. She also has written two excellent books Holistic Dental Care and Renegade Beauty, and that's kind of why we're here today, because I wanted to have a chat to her about all things dental and beauty. You've been doing this for a long time, Nadine. You're so well known in this industry. I've seen you in all of the big newspapers around the world, and I know people like Alanis Morissette are fans. I wanted to start, if you don't mind, just with a little bit of an overview of how you found yourself on this path, because reading your books, it sounds like you've gone from a more mainstream approach to beauty sort of discovering this track. Love to hear a little bit about that, if you don't mind.
Nadine Artemis: (00:56)
Yes, well, my stint with regular commercial beauty was really just part and parcel of being a teenager, but at that time, I really dove in. Because, we were just talking beforehand, because my best friend is Australian, and I was with her-
During the move [crosstalk 00:01:21]
Nadine Artemis: (01:20)
Oh, my god, insane amounts. Then, of course, we weren't really allowed to wear a lot of makeup and stuff because I was at a girls' school, so then it just became, "Let's wear more." So much nail polish, I'd have to go down to the office and have it removed.
Oh, my gosh. I remember that too.
Nadine Artemis: (01:40)
Then, I'd put a lot of product in my hair, and then the next day, they'd have new rules that you couldn't put gel in your hair and stuff. It's just a little funny.
You were changing their system.
Nadine Artemis: (01:53)
Yes. Then, I was the youngest in my family, because I had an older sister, and my mother, and so I was kind of the hand-me-downs too for all their bottles. My bathroom really was quite crazy. There [inaudible 00:02:04] explanation, but in all of that, also, in my childhood, before teen, I was really steeped in nature and really aware. I just knew I loved to hang out, and in grade nine, in the midst of all the crazy bottles of petroleum. I did do a science fair project and I wanted to do perfume, because I had this book that I got from the library. It did go into the origins of perfume, and it was a bit like, "Oh," some sort of, like, "That's where it all came from," and that they were distillates from plants. That was kind of revolutionary to know that back then.
Nadine Artemis: (02:47)
It talked about the history, which was really fascinating to me as well. My great grandfather, who I didn't know, but I knew of his work, and he'd gone on archaeological digs as an illustrator in the 1800s with Howard Carter and stuff. We had these paintings of the Egyptian... And it was original, from the 1800s. When he was painting, he was really there to replicate what he saw, sort of like... Because he would do very fine watercolours, so even if something was broken, he would... On the wall, he would paint that in. Then, he had these paintings of Luxor, and that was really cool, and he was also the president of the London Egyptology Society, and a lot of neat history.
Nadine Artemis: (03:37)
When I was reading that book and it talked about... Because, ancient Egypt really did... That was one of the stages of where perfume got revolutionised a little bit more into distilling practises that we still use today. It has a lot of perfume history, that culture. It talked about using these things called essential oils, and that you could probably find them at a health food store and that sort of stuff. We went off to the big city. My mom took me in, and we found... I found my first essential oils. That was really thrilling. I definitely, when I was inhaling my first orange, jasmine, Ylang. It was definitely a different experience, and it really spoke to me. Now, I understand the real difference between synthetic fragrances and essential oils, which I didn't know that sort of more intellectually then, but I really felt it.
Nadine Artemis: (04:36)
Then, I recreated L'air du Temps, Nina Ricci's L'air du Temps, which was a favourite perfume of mine at the time, with the essential oils, and that was super fun. That just really resonated with me, and then I definitely had a few more years of just mixing the bottles around, or crushing my white eyeshadow into my lip balm from Crabtree & Evelyn or whatever. That was all super fun. Then, you know what was really neat, because then when I was at university, and then I was really understand... Then, I had a sort of a revolution about food and understanding what was in the supermarket and how to read labels, and really understanding the vast BS of the supermarket foods, which made me... Within a few weeks, I was like, "Wait a minute." These sort of greener beauty products, because The Body Shop was quite popular then. It seemed revolutionary, and it did have a different smell palette and texture. But, really, when I started understanding those labels, I realised again, it's just petroleum promised land just dressed up differently, and that the pineapple face scrub didn't have pineapple in it. Cucumber face toner didn't have cucumber in it. Dewberry is not really a berry.
Nadine Artemis: (05:55)
All that sort of stuff, it was really from that moment I really started making my own food and my own beauty care products. Then, what was super fun and a little bit relevant to us talking right now, is that first winter of university, I went to visit my best friend in Australia, so we had this great... Yeah. It was summertime, so I went in December. Then, it was neat, because I was there for about a month, and we just went to different things and farmers' markets, and there was a little bit more natural beauty there. Of course, tea tree and things like that. I definitely just feel like it was just a nice step along the way too, to just sort of see a more natural side of beauty.
I guess, is that something that you've seen over the years, because I've been thinking about this a lot just in terms of my own journey, because I remember the same thing, being a teenager, or especially in my late teens, early 20s when I had a lot of time collecting the things, having a cupboard full of bottles, but also because of my childhood probably having a little bit... I used tea tree oil on pimples instead of whatever people use. Just having a little bit of consciousness around that, I guess, Australia being so beachy and kind of nature-based, there is that little bit more awareness. But, I've noticed travelling to the States that there's still a real prevalence of... It doesn't seem organic beauty is pervaded as much there. It might be a population thing, and I know you're Canadian, but I'm just wondering if that's something you've noticed over the years. Has it blown up, or is it still something that's a little bit counterculture? Do you have any thoughts on that?
Nadine Artemis: (07:44)
I feel like what I've seen is, I mean, definitely, it's always increasing, so it was really... In the 90s, I opened up North America's first full concept aromatherapy store in 1992, and it was a very original concept then, but yeah, I mean, it would grow and grow. Then, different things come along, but they're still not really natural. Like Lush, or the Body... Yeah, Body Shop was already around. There's that, and then, what I've seen really grow in the last 10 years, is just independent beauty. Indy beauty as they say. It doesn't mean it's necessarily natural. I mean, sure, so much of it is, but it's just neat, because it's just great, because it means a lot of people are fulfilling their dreams of making things and bringing down the scale a lot, which is totally fine, and I think it's great, because I think it is... In a good way, it disrupts the monoliths [crosstalk 00:08:54]
Yeah, union labour and those guys.
Nadine Artemis: (08:53)
Nadine Artemis: (08:57)
I just mean the big... Just like your classic commercial things like your-
Estee Lauder things?
Nadine Artemis: (09:03)
Yeah. I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just saying it's a monopoly, and it kind of monopolises beauty. That's what I found sort of... You could talk about back for a few decades, maybe there's only a few sort of channels governing generally what we see. Now, with the internet, that's sort of gotten disrupted, or before, there was only these monolithic music companies and you had to get signed to them. I feel like it's a bit with the cosmetic industry, so I feel like through the 80s and 90s, they just had such a strong cultural hold on what is beauty, how we're going to accomplish beauty, and what ingredients are going to do that. What I'm loving, it doesn't really matter what the outcome is, just that you have all these small companies just contributing to their own sort of village or the people they know. I think that's really great, because I think it's also had to make those larger companies rethink beauty and maybe bring up some different standards. You'll also see a lot of... Or, they buy out the smaller businesses.
Nadine Artemis: (10:16)
Burt's Bees is owned by Clorox, that pharma company, or-
Yeah, I think it's Clorox [crosstalk 00:10:25]
Nadine Artemis: (10:25)
Yeah, or Estee Lauder, Origins and Aveda. You'll see a lot of smaller companies go that way, but that's fun too, because I'm sure a lot of people develop a company with wanting to sell it in mind. I think it's good, it's just a lot more diversity happening. Obviously, I want the pure and the natural, and there's been a lot of development in that area too, although I do still find it's like there still seems to be compromises. Of course, what's also huge is a lot of greenwashing where really, it would be hard pressed for me to find a beauty product even in a health food store-
That's actually clean, really.
Nadine Artemis: (11:11)
Yeah. I mean clean clean. Where if I, like, "Oh, my god, if I ran out of my Libations conditioner," that I would be hard pressed to find something else, but I'm hardcore.
Yeah, I'm curious about that, because it's something, I guess being... Because I'm in my mid 30s, I'm 35. I obviously have a lot of female friends and just chatting to people about this kind of stuff, because we all are quite conscious of our health, and then hair care's actually one where... I was actually talking to one of the girls at work about this the other day, and she said, "I just have to do chemicals for my hair, because I can't find a natural product [inaudible 00:11:49] that work." It's funny, because I have really fine hair, and I've used your products before, and I do find the oilier kind of products really are heavy in my hair. I've done everything from washing with clay to using all sorts of random things in my hair. Clay actually worked quite well for me on the scalp, and then your conditioner on the ends. That was one of the most successful experiments I've tried.
Nadine Artemis: (12:13)
Yeah. But, it's been really interesting just having these conversations, because I'm quite willing to have a bunch of weird stuff in my shower and have clays and things-
Nadine Artemis: (12:22)
Yeah, I think you have to experiment, and sometimes, also the water... [crosstalk 00:12:26] that's that combo. Yeah. We always travel with a shower filter.
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Even just in LA, because their water is so salty, almost. It's really drying, so it's a completely different texture there. But, yeah, I'm curious, when you're talking about hair care products, are you... Your recipe's, again, very popular in our office as well, so the girls with beautiful thick hair just thrive on your shampoos especially, sorry, your conditioners especially. I just was curious when you're crafting those, are you... All the things people are used to, the lauryl sulphates and [inaudible 00:13:03], all that sort of stuff, they're pretty obvious things these days to omit, but what's the process? Without giving away your secret recipe, what's the process when you're crafting hair care? What are you looking for? Are you nourishing the scalp? Is it about microbiome? All of these things.
Nadine Artemis: (13:21)
Well, you know what? Really, it doesn't even matter on the type of product, I always have some of the same goals, which is always working with the microbiome, always nourishing the body and the cells. Never making this something that's going to have a negative effect on the body. Always having the highest quality with every single ingredient. No ingredient is filler in what we make. Every drop has a purpose, and that's for every formula.
Nadine Artemis: (13:55)
We find, with the hair care, it generally works with all kinds of hair, thin to thick to curly and everything, except there can be just the random thick haired person or the random thin haired person where something just is not lining up for their experience, but 98% of the time, the shampoos really work. Then, there can be a variety of things that you can do. A lot of people condition first, then shampoo, then condition. A lot of people, when they're transitioning, will use a bit of baking soda with the shampoo, because there can be a lot of residue from normal shampoos.
Nadine Artemis: (14:39)
Yeah, you want to lift that off the scalp. Because we're able to understand the microbiome now, and there's all kinds of amazing research going on, there was a really neat one done with a special type of photography, so they would have people do their normal ablutions, and then not shower it away, you know what I mean? They just did one day where they had their normal washing hygiene routines, and then they went and did this photograph. It was three or four days later, and it still showed all the areas in the skin and microbiome where it was still sitting there on the skin. [crosstalk 00:15:18]
... never washed his hair the whole time I've known him. [crosstalk 00:15:21] ... beautiful hair.
Nadine Artemis: (15:24)
Long hair, very occasionally, it gets a bit greasy, but he just jumps in the ocean that sorts it out.
Nadine Artemis: (15:31)
It's the bane of my existence that he gets like that. Like, "Why?"
Nadine Artemis: (15:38)
Hormones can really affect our hair as well. There's so much-
[crosstalk 00:15:44] our daughter's head, who's four, and her hair's beautiful.
Nadine Artemis: (15:46)
Awesome. Maybe if we just do once a year.
Nadine Artemis: (15:51)
Yeah. That's working out.
I mean, I'm really observing myself in the process of changing my habits over the last probably 15 years. Just the conditioning around feeling clean and that scrubbed feeling. That's something I've learned through working with different skin specialists. I see a natural facialist lady, and she's all about barriers, and yeah, you don't wash anything off. You're not allowed to have a shower for two days after you see her and all this kind of stuff, because it's just that leaving the oils on the skin to kind of sit there. I just think it's really interesting that we are so conditioned to be stripped and scrubbed, and there's this hygiene hypothesis I think that we've all kind of bought into. Is there anything you want to say about that, or anything... Do you have any thoughts on that?
Nadine Artemis: (16:39)
Yeah. There is this sort of hygiene hypothesis, which is this surfactant, squeaky clean, but really, that's really just been around since the 50s as the more chemicals came into play. The wide variety of surfactants that were invented for that squeaky clean feeling, and yeah, now, we know through the study of the microbiome that we've been over-cleaning with chemicals. Through that, we've been mutating or making extinct different species of the microbiome. One study that I found fascinating is with understanding that when we're washing with these surfactants, just washing our face, on a microscopic level, they're leaving microscopic splinters in the stratum corneum, which is the very, very top layer of the skin. Those aren't getting rinsed away. There's this daily microscopic buildup that can happen over years and months, leading to different dysbiosis of the microbiome that could lead to some kind of dry patchy thing on your skin or eczema, or melasma.
Nadine Artemis: (17:49)
Really, when there is a skin imbalance, it is something with the microbiome that we want to bring in to balance. That could even be with the gut level too, because they're very interconnected. If something's not coming out of the colon, it might show up on your skin.
Yeah. I mean, we work from a Taoist background and you'd never ever look at the skin and assume that this little problem... It's so often an internal issue, but then even what you're talking about there, that's almost like a leaky gut for the skin, for this constant [crosstalk 00:18:21] it's going to cause inflammation and an immune response. I mean, then, of course, you're going to get things show up, like we've been imagining a lot of these chronic inflammatory conditions that we don't know what the root cause is. I'm sure that's one of the factors. That's something we see so often is supporting the endocrine system, supporting the inner gut health and all those things. They're things you speak about in your book. I guess, you're probably ahead of the curve when you guys started, but I think now, I think a lot of these ideas are becoming more popular, like eating less of these starchy carbohydrate foods and not pushing the insulin response constantly, so the endocrine system's constantly out of whack. Focusing on fats and those kinds of things. Any other diet mainstays for you that you see as a general rule or supportive to beauty and to the microbiome?
Nadine Artemis: (19:14)
Yeah, definitely, there's a lot of individuation, personalization for what food works. I do find that, as a general, the population, we're getting a little more sensitive to a lot of things. But, I definitely feel like no matter what realm you're in with your food, I feel that soy is a no go for everybody. Wheat, corn, those seem to wreak havoc on the skin a bit. Then again, you got as individuals, like raw cheesecake made out of cashews is a beautiful thing, but cashews can cause wicked acne for many.
Again, from a Chinese perspective, that's causing a lot of damp in the system as well, so I can see how [crosstalk 00:20:06] an individual constitutional kind of exploration of what your body needs.
Nadine Artemis: (20:11)
Are you typically more geared toward a Western [inaudible 00:20:16] style, kind of fermented foods, animal products?
Nadine Artemis: (20:21)
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I've had a long journey with food, but since that moment when I was 18, and I was exploring food and labels and all that, it was from that moment forward I... Obviously, there was a time when I wasn't, but I always eating organic as much as I'm aware and can choose, from that moment forward and not eating processed food. Those have guided me since that moment, and but then I've gone through all kinds of things. I did years of being vegan as well, and then through the birth and child and pregnancy experience, I was... And understanding about teeth, and I wrote a book on holistic dental care. I was just like, "Yeah." [crosstalk 00:21:09]
Nadine Artemis: (21:14)
Any kind of protein choices are just the most pristine, and that's always... I would never. I don't compromise. I'll just not eat. If it's not good food, I'll just wait. Because, this way, my blood sugar's balanced. I can totally-
Nadine Artemis: (21:31)
Yeah. For decades, I feel like my blood sugar is in balance, because I've also known that. Known that really the first step towards dysbiosis pathway is really inflammation and high blood sugar, having the blood sugar spike. No matter how you're eating, those are some things that you want to be sure. Yeah, I'll just fast, or we're just prepared. But, because I was making those food choices at 18, and I do... Again, I am hardcore. Once I've made that decision, I'm there. It's easy for me, because it's like I feel like the truth of something, you know what I mean? So I'm like, "Okay," and that gives me that motivation, because I'm not actually disciplined. I feel like people see that, or the way that I eat, and they're like, "Oh, it must take so much discipline," and it doesn't, because-
You just virtually cut that out of your reality.
Nadine Artemis: (22:32)
I can really relate to that, because I mean, I've been through all of those very similar diets, the vegetarian and other things, but yeah, it's just like I just don't even accept that that's... It's not even a conscious choice, but it's like it's no longer in my reality. It's just what I do, and then at some point, my body will say, "Hey, time to question that and [crosstalk 00:22:55]"
Nadine Artemis: (22:54)
I've had to pack my own food basically since 18, so every airline trip, every road trip, every moment, and it's like I'm able to map out the health food stores, or I pack food.
You're a professional [crosstalk 00:23:10]
Nadine Artemis: (23:10)
I'm not. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm just not going to rely. Yeah. I don't eat that kind of stuff, so it doesn't exist for me. If I'm going to an airport, I assume there's no food for me. If there is, it's fun.
It's a pleasant surprise, yeah.
Nadine Artemis: (23:28)
Yeah, times are changing. Every time I go to the airport, I'm like, "Oh. It's getting a little easier."
Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely changed in the last 10 years. It's quite amazing, but the level of consciousness shifting toward these things. I do want to get onto teeth, because I just think that's such an under-discussed realm. But, I guess, with just finishing up on... I guess beauty will continue to be discussed as we go, but one of the things I'm really interested in, and I really love and respect about your work is your reverence for essential oils, but also that you're not one of these... I'm not going to mention any company names, but people that say, "10 drops in your cup of tea every morning," and all this kind of stuff.
Because, one of these things, I think, in terms of respecting the plant kingdom is these are concentrated, and they require a lot of mass of product to produce one material, and they're really potent, so we don't need a lot of them. Your products all contain these beautiful oils that you sell, and I mean, my experience in purchasing your oils, they last for such a long time. We use them mindfully, and we really enjoy having them in our apothecary. But, I mean, is there any advice you can give to people wanting to work with essential oils on things like dosage and appropriate use, and maybe two or three that you think are absolute must-haves to have in your kitchen or bathroom or wherever you store your beauty products?
Nadine Artemis: (24:59)
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, when you're working with essential oils, you really always and only ever want to work with authentic distillations. When you have those beautiful distillations, it's like by the drop, each drop is just a whole world. It has over 500 different chemical components, natural chemical components, so they really are potent and beautiful. Yeah, you just want to have that purity and authenticity through the whole stage, because there's a lot of essential oils that just aren't real. It's very easy to make nature identical substances. It was easy 60 years ago to make nature identical substances, and it's only more crafty now, that's for sure.
Nadine Artemis: (25:46)
Yeah. You just for sure want to be working with good stuff. Yeah, you're just by the drop. We have articles on our website too that can help, or there's a lot of stuff in Renegade Beauty for ways to use them for culinary. They can be used internally, but you do definitely... It's very mindful. You can put them in capsules. You can use them with honey, like a drop to a little bit of honey, a drop to a little bit of olive oil. You're always going to want to mix it with a fat or honey before you put it into a food. Some essential oils can be used, like a drop of frankincense or peppermint in water is good, but then there's some essential oils, like cinnamon, oregano, clove, for sure, and there are others, but they need to be diluted before, because that would just burn on the way down your throat.
Nadine Artemis: (26:37)
If you got a toothache, take that drop of... You could even do a strong dilution, like a 50/50, one drop of clove to one nice healthy drop of olive oil. That would be very concentrated, but it does need that bit of lube so it takes the edge off. Yeah, I mean, we sell close to 200 different types of essential oils.
Yeah. That's exciting.
Nadine Artemis: (27:04)
Yes. We love rare ones, or ones it's like we can still discover more of its benefits as a human population, but it's a neat... It's testing well. It's safe, and it's helping this little collective somewhere in the world. We also like to bring new ones into the fold so we can all enjoy these new plant allies. Yeah.
I was going to say, just from the Egyptian perspective, and I don't know anyone who wasn't obsessed with ancient Egypt at some point. It's such an incredible culture, and such a legacy, I think, that we aren't maybe as aware of. Let's say you guys have a range of 200. Do you know if there's hundreds more oils in plants out there that we aren't working with, or is that an impossible question to answer? I'm just curious.
Nadine Artemis: (28:03)
Well, it's a slightly impossible question to answer, because... But, it's like any plant that has an aromatic molecule has the potential. Of course, so many that are distilled have been distilled for thousands of years. Then, something like a tulip, they don't have aromatic molecules, so there'll never be an oil of that. Then, there's some things that are getting like... Lilac was so elusive to capture. It could only really be done through an enfleurage, which is, in old times, they would use animal fats and press the flowers. Now, you can do coconut oil. But, it's just so hard. Even though it's so intoxicating every spring and it seems so juicy and strong, it's just hard to get it out. There's a lot of floral wax, but they're able to do a thicker, like a supercritical extract. That came into being a few years ago. Now, we're able to get new smells from some old classics. Yeah, even since I've been working with oils, since I was 18, I'm seeing lots of new things and developments.
Is that kind of like an emulsion? Is it like the oils extracting the wax molecule of the plant that contains the scent? Is that how... I'm trying to understand the chemistry of that.
Nadine Artemis: (29:30)
Yeah. It's just because the fat molecule in oil is a volatile molecule, so it's able to hold on. It's able to grab it and kind of hug it so it can bring it into its... Yeah, transfer it.
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Because, the distillation process, if people aren't conscious of that, is more of the... There's the steam process, the steam is captured and condensed, and then that oil separates from the water because of its density, and then you're distilling that into a separate container, basically. But, that's not suitable for quite a lot of the really rare oils, and that's why they're so expensive.
Nadine Artemis: (30:08)
Yeah. Well, it depends on just really how much essential oil the plant yields in the steam distillation. Lavender has a high yield, and it's not high in waxes. That's why lavender oil's pretty reasonably priced, whereas rose or orange blossoms, really, they just don't yield a lot of oil, and so it's just... 60 rose heads makes one drop of oil. Whereas 60 lavender heads, I don't know the equivalent, but it would make... It makes a lot more.
Nadine Artemis: (30:45)
That's how that varies, and that once it's steamed, it's cooled, and then it comes sort of back to life, because the coolness separates the two, and then that beautiful water that's left over is the water, like a rosewater. Rosewater, for example, isn't rose oil in water, it's from the distillation process. It actually contains micro-soluble components of the essential oil that were water soluble.
It's still got that magic of the rose thing?
Nadine Artemis: (31:16)
Because, yeah, the difference between quality in different rosewater's insane.
Nadine Artemis: (31:24)
Oh, my gosh, yes. I mean, there's just literally not real ones, mostly, everywhere.
You're going to pay for it, I guess, if you're getting... If it's cheap rosewater, it's probably not real rosewater.
Nadine Artemis: (31:37)
Yeah, but there's really expensive cheap rosewater too.
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:31:44] green washing and the marketing, like a lot of companies have big marketing budgets and not a lot of integrity.
Nadine Artemis: (31:52)
That's really what you're paying for. It's just like a regular perfume, like Chanel or whatever.
Most of it's marketing.
Nadine Artemis: (32:02)
No, it's just chemical. It's just pennies. There's just no life there. It just shouldn't actually cost anything, but what costs is everything, the packaging, the whole infrastructure, the marketing, the ads in Vogue, but literally, the insides, it's just... It's kind of amazing. It's kind of amazing what we do pay for really a lot of toxic nothingness.
It's so interesting, because we have a herb company, and not a very large marketing budget, because we don't have the margin like those companies, not even comparable. Yes.
Nadine Artemis: (32:44)
But, I was interested to read, looking... I did some research on what some of those companies are spending on their marketing budget, and it can be anywhere up to 70% of revenue or more.
Nadine Artemis: (32:57)
50's kind of the average. That's things like your models and your photography and all those things, but I'm thinking, "Wow, that's crazy that people aren't aware of how much of what they're paying is really going back into selling-"
Nadine Artemis: (33:11)
Yeah. Also, the cultural impact of that, because like the body image stuff around those companies led to marketing... I think that's one of the things I think you're talking about with indy beauty, and your work, it's about the function of the product, and about just the ritual of actually caring for yourself in this way with these really high quality products. It's not about looking like somebody else or fitting into some kind of predetermined mould.
Nadine Artemis: (33:41)
Yeah, and it's such a liberating... This is an evolutionary human process to [crosstalk 00:33:48] and go, "No, I'm not going to buy into that anymore."
Nadine Artemis: (33:51)
I guess that's a good segue into teeth, because I... Well, it's funny, because my grandfather is a professor of dentistry, so hopefully he won't listen to this podcast. He'll be like, "What?" But, I've managed to really avoid the dental industry somehow, despite having him as my grandfather, but it's something a couple of, again, my friends have been through all these years of jaw issues and braces and all those kinds of things, and even just things with cavities, and there's a lot of, I think, lack of education around even how our teeth work, what they kind of do, that they actually have a microbiome, the importance of saliva. I know this is a huge topic, but could you... Just in your research, could you throw at me some of those aha moments you had with teeth and what was really just groundbreaking for you when you started getting into alternative tooth care, dental care?
Nadine Artemis: (34:50)
Yeah. Just so everybody... I'm not a dentist, but I have teeth like all of us, and anything that I'm drawing research from is from dentists, you know what I mean? It's not like I'm just-
Not making it up.
Nadine Artemis: (35:08)
Yeah, and these dentists are mavericks in their field, and we're just so thankful for them, because they were able to get the regular education, but then question things and move things forward and really revolutionise and make things a lot safer for us, so I'm really indebted to those maverick dentists. What I found revolutionary is that our teeth are alive, and it's obvious, but connected to the rest of our body, and what is really fascinating, because... And, I think a lot of dentists don't know this, is that there's a dentinal lymph system. There's a dentinal fluid transport system that is really at the heart of understanding our teeth. When we chew, we're activating glands. We're sending messages through chewing, creates substrates and those chemical messengers go to the hypothalamus, which releases a fluid, gets this whole thing going.
Nadine Artemis: (36:15)
Nutrients are delivered through the blood, and there's the whole digestive system, and then the blood flows up into the teeth, then it becomes a clear liquid. It changes into a lymphatic fluid and then gets pushed up onto the... Teeth are like trees, and they're drawing nutrients up from their root system into the pulp chamber, and in there, the odontoblast excrete the fluid out and onto the surface of the teeth.
Nadine Artemis: (36:45)
There's this microscopic sweat, and then that coalesces with the saliva and the oral microbiome as doing so many things, like repairing teeth, making sure the whole ecosystem is good in there, and it's delivering nutrients out. There's this energy of up, in, and out, and when the body is stressed or crazy hormonal shifts, or chemicals, or even cell phones, all these things are contributing to the stagnancy of that lymphatic system. The stagnancy is not something you want, because you want the fluid always working for you, but if it then continues, or if there's a lot of spikes in the blood sugar, because it's not really about the sugar hitting the teeth, it's about the sugar's effect on the body. What will happen to that dentenial inflow is that it will actually not just get stagnant, but reverse, and then the tooth becomes like a straw sucking in bacteria, virus, fungi from within the oral environment into the tooth. That is the genesis of how a cavity is formed. I found that to be really revolutionary in my research.
So, it's almost like that protective mechanism, because your body's resources are required elsewhere [crosstalk 00:38:13]
Nadine Artemis: (38:13)
I like to think of it as the invisible toothbrush.
Nadine Artemis: (38:16)
Because, also, when we think about the body, even though we're doing all this stuff and it's 2020 and we're brushing and flossing, or we're soaping, all this kind of stuff, but you always want to just step back and know that... I think the inherent design is going to be flawless, because I feel like that's what we see anytime we look further into nature and the system, and then this pollinator goes to there, and then that seed is dropped off by the... you know what I mean? It's all interconnected. It's all working. It's like we got to just step back and just go, "Okay, what's the natural system in the body? We weren't born with a toothbrush in our hand, so what was the body's design?" I kind of back tracked from there, and then see where, "Well, if I step back, will something kind of kick in and naturally start happening? Or, do I still got to do X, Y, and Z?"
Nadine Artemis: (39:14)
Even if you just ditched all your toothpaste and started brushing with baking soda and did that for the rest of your life, you'd be far better off. Then, once we know what the body's capable of, and then when we see what we're going to do with our human hands, so to speak.
Here's something I've found so interesting about this self care industry in general is if you do go back before industrialization, we had a bar of soap and they were what we even used as toothpaste back then, because we didn't have toothpaste. [crosstalk 00:39:44]
Nadine Artemis: (39:43)
Yeah, there were tooth powders and stuff, yeah.
Yeah, it wasn't that long ago that we were really having maybe one or two or three products in our bathroom, and they were really fats, essential oils, lye. It's another complex process, really. Now, we've gone to having these whole aisles of dental care. One of the things you say in your book which I've just related to so much was the cognitive dissidence around you can't swallow these products, but you put them in your mouth. As a kid, I remember reading the Colgate label and going, "Why can't I eat this? If it's going in my mouth, why can't I swallow it?" What kind of things are we talking about in these products that are making them [crosstalk 00:40:30]
Nadine Artemis: (40:31)
Oh, yeah. Oh, so many things.
Nadine Artemis: (40:36)
Yeah. I mean, it's just amok.
It's like your ethyl lauryl sulphates?
Nadine Artemis: (40:42)
Yeah. Sodium lauryl sulphate, just the abrasivity of a lot of the stuff.
Then, the chemicals, I guess, in mouthwash and all those kinds of things.
Nadine Artemis: (40:55)
Yeah. A lot of that sodium lauryl sulphate on its own is going to create bleeding gums. It's just not a good situation for the gums. Even if its natural glycerin actually coats the teeth, it doesn't rinse off. Again, this is just microscopic, and then it creates a film over the teeth that doesn't allow the saliva to get through. What great about essential oils, now that we have people studying the microbiome, and now we're able to have modern science confirm why so many of the plants that we're familiar with for dental care were used for thousands of years. Oils like clove, rose, tea tree, frankincense, myrrh, mastic, cinnamon, peppermint, all of these beautiful oils, now we know that they have QSI, which is the acronym or whatever for quorum sensing inhibition, so they're quorum sensing inhibitors, and they're able to block or disrupt the communication and gene expression of pathogens.
Nadine Artemis: (42:03)
They're able to bust through biofilms. Yet, they're able to work with the beneficial bacteria. They can clean up the pathogens, but not disrupt the beneficial bacteria. I think this is what we need in these times.
Yeah. I mean, that's your protocol that you sort of map out in the book, Holistic Dental Care is this sort of eight steps. I mean, did you develop this out of your own experience with dental-
Nadine Artemis: (42:30)
I sure did, yeah.
Nadine Artemis: (42:32)
Well, nothing major, just I gotta figure this out, because I kind of... 18, 19, and getting in the 20s, and I'm understanding as I'm creating all this stuff, and understanding food and then I'm really understanding the body in new ways and things that we could do. All those common ailments, like a cold, a headache, a stomachache, the way that we were approaching it when I was growing up, I'm like, "Oh, my god, there's a whole new world." If you have a headache, oh, maybe it's digestive, you know what I mean? I was really getting to understand the body in a whole new way. But, to me, the tooth part was a little bit evasive. I couldn't find books on the subject. Then, also, thinking you're 20, you're off your... If you were lucky enough to grow up in a family with some dental care plans or whatever, then you're off that plan. You're a long entrepreneur on your own, and you might not be that fond of the dentist, because you don't like going either when you're a kid.
Nadine Artemis: (43:32)
But, then you're faced with, you gotta figure this out. I just found there was such a gap. What are we going to do every day about our teeth? What's just waiting for all this shit to hit the fan when you go to the dentist? That's how I set out that journey, and then I luckily had a good hygienist at the time. I mean, I went to the holistic dentist in my 20s, but it was a while ago, and I don't think they were that holistic with what I know now. The hygienist was super cool, and she was like, "You got the beginning of a cavity. Go home and work with that stuff you have, and then come back in six months." That was revolutionary to me. I didn't know that you could stop a cavity, let alone reverse it, depending on what condition it was in. Then, when I went back six months later, it was not there.
Nadine Artemis: (44:22)
That was exciting, because I didn't grow up at all thinking at that... Just seemed like it was a dead end. [crosstalk 00:44:33]
Yeah, the kind of narrative around... Especially cavities and things like... I don't have any fillings, and people are so shocked when they hear that, and I'm... It's such a cultural thing that we have, from a very young age, these things stuck in our mouths that... especially historically, with the mercury amalgam fillings and things, but at least now, we're moving away from that, I think, generally. There's very little education around the integrative aspect of dental care, I think, and how about what you were talking about before with sugar, it's like everyone thinks, "Oh, you don't eat sugar for your teeth," but it's really about what that's doing to your immune response and your endocrine response, and that's the effect it's having on your teeth. It's not, per se, the sugar...
Nadine Artemis: (45:21)
Yeah. I think that the teeth are connected, and that analogy of the tree, I think, is so beautiful, because then you're visualising this root system tapping into the ecosystem of the body, and just like a tree in the forest, it's connected through... It's mycelium network, and it's root network. So are our teeth. So whatever we're seeing manifesting is a kind of report card, I guess, on the overall health of the body. In terms of your eight steps, would you mind giving us a really quick summary of them? For detail, everyone will have to get the book, because it's not-
Nadine Artemis: (45:58)
I was going to say, actually... Thanks for reminding me. It's also on our website, and [crosstalk 00:46:04] any question in the world, and we also do free consults for beauty and just mild dental care questions, but even if it's a big question you have, we will really do our best to be like, "Oh, here's this," or we even know some holistic dentists that do video consults and stuff, which is so super helpful. Because, sometimes, you can just... Yeah, I would think more dentists should do it, because it's such a great service.
This area we're in is more... I think in different parts of the world, it's probably more prevalent. We've got three, I think, alternative dentists here, but I'm sure there are places in the world where that's not an option.
Nadine Artemis: (46:43)
We're close to a really good major city, which definitely has some... It's changing for some progressive options, but with the amount of information I know, we actually go to a dentist in Texas.
Nadine Artemis: (47:01)
Because, I know too much.
You can't fuck around with that.
Nadine Artemis: (47:07)
No. [crosstalk 00:47:10] He's quoted in my book and stuff. Dr. Nunnally. I'm so grateful for his research and he did write this really good research on root canals with independent labs, and really indebted to him, and he's just as great as I thought he would be, so really thankful for dentists like him.
Yeah. Quickly on root canals, I mean, that's one that has come up a few times in the last couple of years, and I mean, you talk about that, again, a little bit in the book, but is there anything you'd want to share if that's something that's in their reality, apart from [crosstalk 00:47:47]
Nadine Artemis: (47:48)
Often, you may not have... If you've been told you have to have a root canal, you may not need one. If it is a real "root canal candidate," that means probably the tooth is too far gone, but sometimes, there's jumping the gun a bit. Just like 67% of all wisdom teeth that are removed don't need to be removed.
Nadine Artemis: (48:15)
There's that realm, but you could be at a stage where, yeah, that tooth is no longer good. Then, you don't actually want to have a dead tooth in your mouth. The theory of a root canal is... I mean, I can see why it was invented or whatever, because you know how great, even if the tooth is gone, that you could still have the look and feel of your natural tooth, but it really shows that 100% of the time, no root canal can actually be sterilised. The idea is that the pulp chamber, the interior of the tooth is removed, and then the tubes are supposed to be sterilised. But, each tooth contains microscopic tubules that are 300 metres.
Nadine Artemis: (49:05)
I know. Every time I say that, literally, in my head, I have to be like, "No, I'm sure it's three," but I know it's 300. Isn't that crazy? That's a molar, has that long. That can't be sterilised. These textbook perfect, so that's as in textbook perfect on an X-ray, as in not creating any issue for the person that they were removed and sent to a lab, and even upon examination when they were removed, they were still 100% perfect root canal, and all the teeth from different people had severe to necrotic bacteria. It just becomes this necrotic breeding ground for pathogens inside that root canal tooth. Then, that just squirts into the bloodstream.
Yeah. Okay. Toxic environment that's not sounding very good.
Nadine Artemis: (50:07)
Yeah. Yeah. Then, really, if that is the case, then the best option is to actually just extract the tooth, but you'll be want to be sure, again, that you're with a dentist that knows to remove the periodontal ligament, which is not standard protocol, but that's akin to leaving the placenta in after childbirth. Because, then the gum grows over top, and then what happens is you get jaw cavitation, like a jaw cavity. That could take decades to develop, and can't even show up on an X-ray until it's 80% of a cavitation.
That's established, yeah. Okay.
Nadine Artemis: (50:43)
Sort of a long term issue as well if you don't get it right the first time.
Nadine Artemis: (50:48)
Yeah, can be.
Nadine Artemis: (50:50)
Yeah, but luckily, those can be cleaned out and they inject oxygen or the plasma therapy. If you've ever had a root canal, I mean, sorry, a wisdom tooth or another extraction, at some point, you're going to want to have those places checked. Again, it's not a lot of... You need to find a dentist that really does do this, that they know about this, that this isn't new information for them, and then you'll be in good hands. We also have articles, an article on our site about questions to ask a prospective dentist. We got a lot of resources, because it's a big area. It's a complicated area, but we're all dealing with tooth stuff, because we didn't really get the past 50 years of... Well, no, really, the whole history of, I think, humans fixing teeth hasn't been a good story.
Nadine Artemis: (51:40)
Now, there's a lot of not good modern practises, like mercury, or like all the things we just talked about, but now, luckily, we're also at a time in history where there's never been cleaner... We got clean options now. We got people that understand what's going on. I think we're also at a time where we really can solve those issues, we can prevent issues and we have good solutions now to clean up shoddy dentist work from the past, which I feel like most adults on the planet are at that stage where we have to then, for the next phase of our lives, make sure we've cleaned up the past, cleaned up those childhood dental wonky things, get the silver out. [crosstalk 00:52:25]
Nadine Artemis: (52:25)
Yes. Again, we didn't know [crosstalk 00:52:30] the culture back then.
Nadine Artemis: (52:30)
Nadine Artemis: (52:32)
But, we're getting there. Even stem cells, literally, it's not out there in normal practise yet, or a dentist's office, but they literally can grow teeth with stem cells.
Nadine Artemis: (52:45)
That is coming. I feel like it's been coming for a few years, but it really should be coming, because it's already been done. They kind of make a little mould, and then... a little tooth shape, and then the stem cells go in, and the tooth grows up in the little [crosstalk 00:53:02]
That's amazing. They can transplant them into people?
Nadine Artemis: (53:06)
No, I think that's set up in your mouth.
Nadine Artemis: (53:08)
Yeah, and then you grow your own. [crosstalk 00:53:12] Yeah.
I'm sure that'll be on the market as soon as it's ready.
Nadine Artemis: (53:19)
That's great. In terms of management, because if people do have... I mean, in my family, I have people with a history of bad dentistry, and that being sort of sorted out as they've aged, and other close friends, and so much of it then becomes around just cultivating that healthy microbiome, that healthy environment to... Because, I mean, I noticed in myself, if I'm ever really run down, I can feel my immune system kind of flaring up, I'll sometimes get a sore tooth or something, and I sort of have started to correlate that to like, "Okay, that's when I let myself get really run down," and that manifests, but when I rein it in and manage my diet and my herbs, my immune system kind of perks back up again. That goes away. That's such an interesting relationship that environment versus the traditional external idea would be like, "Oh, you've got a sore tooth. Go to the dentist and get it fixed or taken out or something."
Nadine Artemis: (54:19)
Yeah, if we're listening to our bodies, we can prevent a lot early on.
Nadine Artemis: (54:24)
It's telling us.
When I was a lot younger, I clicked onto that. If I start to get a toothache, I'm like, "Okay, pushing it. Rein it in." Your video, you just reminded me of that amazing video. I think you're sitting in a creek or something, and you're doing your tooth care routine. I'll put a link to that in the show notes, because I think that was the first time I actually came across your work in this area.
Nadine Artemis: (54:49)
Yeah, and I loved that... One of the things I love in your book is you talk about washing your hair in the lake, and how your products are so clean that there's no problem with doing that. I think it's the same to think that we could spit our tooth care back into a running stream and not feel like we're messing with the ecosystem.
Nadine Artemis: (55:07)
Yeah, or just swallow it and not messing with our own ecosystem.
Yeah. You're working a lot with salts, with the kind of natural abrasives. You said before some abrasives aren't so good for that kind of tooth, and that's something I've always been curious about, because I think it's a similar thing with the skin. We want to protect the barrier of the tooth, but not use anything like glycerin that's going to coat it, or anything too abrasive. In your opinion, the baking sodas and the-
Nadine Artemis: (55:32)
Oh, yeah. It's so mild, and you can even use the baking soda or something that fine, you can also use on your face, like a clay or whatever, and that's a great amount of [inaudible 00:55:44], or even clay on your teeth, or clay with baking soda, a pinch of salt. I have recipes in my book. So easy, and just a million times better than a tube of whatever.
Yeah. Actually, clay to me is one of those things that is just God's gift to humanity.
Nadine Artemis: (56:03)
[crosstalk 00:56:05] on your teeth and on your skin and your hair, it's such a-
Nadine Artemis: (56:07)
Yeah. Everybody needs a kilo of clay in their home for all the things. A kilo of baking soda.
Do you have a favourite clay?
Nadine Artemis: (56:15)
Oh, my gosh, so many.
It's hard, isn't it? Yeah.
Nadine Artemis: (56:18)
Yeah. They have all different... There's the mantra light... There's the white clay. There's a sacred clay that we get from Oregon.
[inaudible 00:56:27] one of my favourites as well.
Nadine Artemis: (56:29)
Yeah. Yeah. I love them all.
Okay. All clays are good. Any other things? The tongue scraping to me is something I made my partner start doing when we got together, because I was like, "You're not touching me until you've scraped your tongue." [crosstalk 00:56:42] Sorry, you go.
Nadine Artemis: (56:45)
No, you go. I was just saying, when you do it, eventually, really, there's not a lot to scrape off. You do it regularly, which is good.
Yeah, but I think it's become such a... I guess going to bed with dirty teeth, to me, feels really weird and I'm waking up and not scraping my tongue. It's like I haven't put on my pants or something. It's a weird feeling when I leave the house if I haven't done that. One of the things I think that you recommend that I guess is a little bit counter to a lot of the alternatives, [inaudible 00:57:17] the electric toothbrush. You talk about using an electric toothbrush well, because that was something I found really interesting in your book, how you distinguish between a soft brush for the gums, and then more of a polish with the electric toothbrush.
Nadine Artemis: (57:29)
Yeah, you can use soft for both. We recommend an ionic brush, or a manual brush, but the ionic's nice, and that's doing a good gum massage, and you're going right up to the top and then down, and you're always just brushing in one direction, which is gum towards the teeth, not back and forth, because that will really... The sulca, which is where the tooth and the gum join is such a precious area that we really need to keep the gum pockets down and around the teeth, and not... Because, that's how receding gums start. Receding gums can literally be just you're applying too much pressure and brushing up and down. We need to keep our gums. It's one of the best ways to keep your teeth is to keep those gum pockets.
You're talking like a quick down from the gum to the tooth, so that's how [crosstalk 00:58:19]
Nadine Artemis: (58:19)
Then you lift off-
And go down again?
Nadine Artemis: (58:22)
Yeah. It's pretty mild and you'll get really good at it, but it takes a moment of retraining, because we've probably been doing it the other way for most of our lives. Then, the electric, you want to... Then, you're polishing the teeth, and hopefully, it'll be a different shape than the other one, and then that's really working on the teeth. I'm so thankful that we've been working on this for a few years. We finally have a new toothbrush coming out in just a few more weeks. Yeah. It's no EMS. It's electric. It's angled. It's a really good angle. It really removes plaque, because there's a lot of really innovative stuff coming out with brushing. I feel like there's so many micro-inventions right now, and as people really thought about all these different shapes. I have one toothbrush that's got four heads on it, so I mean, I try every toothbrush, but finally, I'm really feeling a difference in how this removes plaque.
Nadine Artemis: (59:24)
It even comes with a small... a few heads, one for day and night, and this one that's like a thin... that can go in between the teeth.
Aha, almost like a pick or something.
Nadine Artemis: (59:37)
Nadine Artemis: (59:38)
Yeah, yeah. With just one set of bristles.
Oh, that's really cool. It gets right-
Nadine Artemis: (59:43)
Yeah. Those hard to reach corners.
Nadine Artemis: (59:46)
Yes. It stays charged for a month, so you can go travelling without your charger.
I love you. I'm buying this thing. Yeah, because I tried to take mine on our honeymoon a couple weeks ago, and it didn't even last the week, and I was like, "Come one."
Nadine Artemis: (01:00:03)
Thank you. Yeah, we had a magical day. The other thing, I think, flossing is super important. Hopefully, everyone knows that by now, but anything you want to add on flossing? We use the drTungs brand. Do you guys do a floss?
Nadine Artemis: (01:00:20)
We talk about flossing twice, because when you floss the second time, you'll really know why. It's just needed to be done.
Nadine Artemis: (01:00:30)
Then, rinsing with salt water and essential oils. I mean, your dew drops product is... Is it dew drops? Is that the tooth one? Got the little tooth bottle that we use of your product that we use on our... to rinse and on our brushes and stuff, which I really like. Is that a mix of a couple of... I can't even think of what's in it right now.
Nadine Artemis: (01:00:56)
The Swishing Serum or the Healthy Gums?
Healthy Gums, that's what it is, the little tooth... Yeah.
Nadine Artemis: (01:01:01)
Yes, well, we make these... I love giving people tips about just using the baking soda, salt, things you have handy, just to get started right away. Of course, we do make these beautiful dental serums and toothpaste, so the dental serums are super concentrated, and those can be massaged... One drop, massage along your gums or a special area that's receding, and then you can put one drop along your floss, which is really great.
Yeah, that's what we do.
Nadine Artemis: (01:01:28)
Then, we also sell these blunt tip syringes that you can also put the dental serum in, and then you can get those right along the gum line or in between the teeth. It's really good for along the floss, as it really helps to prevent bleeding gums, and it gets those botanical... those little QSI botanical essential oils right into the crevices in between each tooth, which is super good for the gums.
Amazing. The last thing, because there's so many things in your amazing book, so just tell everyone, if you're interested, get it. Then, chat to Nadine via her site. She's got heaps of great stuff on there. I just wanted to talk a little bit about internally for teeth. Are there any... I know iodine can be really helpful. I know, even just looking after your gut health. In Chinese medicine, it's related to kidney functions. It's supporting the body with kidney herbs and reducing stress, things like [inaudible 01:02:22] Are there any other things you think that are kind of no-brainers for internal tooth care?
Nadine Artemis: (01:02:26)
I think it's really important to keep up with fat soluble vitamins, so you want your D3 and K2 combo. That sends minerals into the bones, so if we're not ample in the sunshine vitamin and K2, then the minerals kind of just coast around in our blood serum. We want to drive those into the bones. That's what that does. I think that's pretty key. Just remember to get plenty of sunshine as well.
Yes. Easy in Australia, less so in Canada.
Nadine Artemis: (01:02:58)
Yeah right now. [crosstalk 01:03:02] Even though it's a foot of snow right now, three days ago, I was in a little wind protected area and lying in the sun. It was only about six degrees out, but I felt it. I felt those rays. It was really good.
Get what you can get.
Nadine Artemis: (01:03:17)
All right. Amazing. Thank you so much. I just think you're such a wealth of knowledge, and your books are really valuable. I mean, we didn't get to talk about children's dental care, but that's in there, and your work on pregnancy as well, and how to use essential oils during pregnancy and Renegade Beauty is really amazing. They were really helpful for me with my daughter and my pregnancy, so I just want to make sure I run those to... Get copies of these books. We're going to have some to give away as well, and Living Libations is Nadine's company, so I'll put links to all of this stuff in the show notes, but if there's anything else, Nadine, that you wanted to let us know about, is there anything else coming up apart from this magic toothbrush that I'll be buying?
Nadine Artemis: (01:03:59)
We always have things coming out. [crosstalk 01:04:02] I restrain myself. I could-
Yeah, go on all day.
Nadine Artemis: (01:04:08)
No, yeah, I mean, yeah, I could have 50 products tomorrow, but I got to slow down.
You sound like my partner. All right. I'll point people towards your newsletter, and if they are interested in following along, you can check out the social media accounts or Nadine's website for all of her up and coming things, and all the things she creates. Thank you so much, again, for your time. I really appreciate it, and I hope this was fun for you.
Nadine Artemis: (01:04:35)
Great. All right. We'll have a chat to you soon again, hopefully, one day. Thanks, Nadine.
Nadine Artemis: (01:04:42)
Thank you so much. It was my pleasure. Bye.
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