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The Importance Of Sleep For Healthy Hun & Qi with Jost Sauer (EP#102)

Today on the SuperFeast podcast, we have lifestyle medicine man, acupuncturist, author, Qi practitioner of 40 years, and all-around cosmic wisdom keeper, Jost Sauer is on to chat with Mason about all things from the global pandemic to the importance of sleep for healthy Hun and cosmic Qi.


Today on the SuperFeast podcast, we have one of our favourite returning guests: Lifestyle medicine man, acupuncturist, author, Qi practitioner of 40 years, and all-around cosmic wisdom keeper, Jost Sauer is chatting to Mason about Lifestyle Health, from the global pandemic to Qi. It is so refreshing to have Jost on, reminding us that health starts with us, and if we take care of our health, we can have a very different response to things like pandemics. Mason and Jost dive deep into the importance of sleep, both for our physical body and healthy Hun. In his brilliant way, Jost weaves the physical and ethereal, describing Hun as the movement of the soul, our dreaming, creativity, visions, inspiration, and antidote to fear.
Tune in for this one. Jost brings so much knowledge, vitality, and Daoist wisdom.

"The healthier you are, the more wisdom from the body will come to you, the more you will be guided by the body".


- Jost Sauer



Mason and Jost explore:

  • Pandemic or syndemic? 
  • Hun energy and the Liver.
  • Tuning into your Qi cycle.
  • Strengthening Lung Qi.
  • Sleep; Why it’s essential for Qi energy.
  • Meditation and plant communication.
  • What happens to our Hun when we sleep?
  • Waking rituals that prepare you for the day.
  • Waking up; Why breathing techniques are better than coffee.
  • Herbs; the elements of nature that build the body/mind/spirit.
  • Understanding Hun and Po energy, within the Daoist philosophy.
  • Strong Immunity; Living correctly for strong Lung Qi and Metal energy.
  • The importance of having a ‘switch off time’ from technology before sleep.
  • Technology; finding a flow that benefits both the physical and spiritual self.


Who is Jost Sauer?

Jost (aka the lifestyle medicine man) was born in Germany in 1958 and is an acupuncturist, author, Qi practitioner of 40 years, and healthy lifestyle expert. His background includes competitive skiing, body-building, and ironman training. Post-drug addiction and suicidal depression led him to martial arts, TCM, the power and cycle of Qi, and the understanding that a natural rhythmic lifestyle holds the secrets to anti-aging, health, and success. Jost has been using lifestyle therapeutically for his clients for over 20 years. Jost is an expert in Chinese Medicine, which he lectured in for over a decade at the Australian College of Natural Medicine, has been running successful health clinics since 1991, initially specialising in addiction recovery, and has treated tens of thousands of clients. His passion is sharing his ongoing discoveries about making lifestyle your best medicine through his books, blogs, articles, workshops, and retreats (all of which we linked in the resources below).



 Jost Website

Jost Facebook

Jost Instagram

Jost Youtube

The 15 Minute Bodyweight Workout

Higher and Higher Book 

Qi Cycles And The Dao with Jost Sauer (EP#48)  

Lifestyle Medicine with Accupuncturist Jost Sauer (EP#63)


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Check Out The Transcript Here:


Mason: (00:00)

Jost welcome man. We got going chatting, before I actually hit the record. Sorry, I do that sometimes.


Jost Sauer: (00:06)

No worries.


Mason: (00:10)

Welcome back.


Jost Sauer: (00:11)

Yeah, yeah. Welcome back. That's a good one.


Mason: (00:14)

A lot's happened. Last year, we were looking forward to having you in-house here in the podcast room, but we're living in a bit of stranger times, compared to this time last year. I think we chatted once more, even before we knew just how huge everything was going to be with the way that the world was reacting to everything that it's reacting to, in 2020. How are you going? You're stuck up there across the border in Queensland, because you've got some big projects and revamps of your awesome book going ahead, and big workshops going on. Exciting times for you.


Jost Sauer: (00:58)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I keep going. Business as usual, obviously, because obviously I take care of my health. If you take care of your health, then you've got a totally different response to things like COVID. The most important thing that we need to understand is that we can't isolate COVID as an entity, because we've got to look at the whole socioeconomic, and the whole health aspect of people. As a lot of experts say, COVID is a confluence of events. Many, many, many events are instrumental for that what now brings up all the symptoms. You know, we can pretty much say 20 years ago it wouldn't have been this problem. 20 years ago, people lived totally different. Now we have this, this is now by far the most unhealthiest, unfittest, weakest, most fragile society we've ever seen.


Mason: (02:03)

100%. So where, for you looking at it, you can see that there is a fragile society. And you can see the general consensus is when you call that out, people get offended by the fact of calling a spade a spade as I'd say. It's just like, look. We're not having a go at people that haven't really looked after their health. But the reality is that I've seen a big split. There are the people that are just willing to accept that we just do continue to not look after our health and our fitness, or if they do it's on a very surface, government-incentivized level of fitness and healthy food, and those that are actually willing to go deep and understand their physiology, their qi cycle and their own personal chi, and take full responsibility. Not to say that there's risks there, but there's a big split.


Mason: (02:56)

I've liked watching you. You've gone full throttle as you always have in everything you do, going, "Just take full responsibility for your health." Do you see after this pandemic stuff, do you see it just being as a division? Or have you seen more positive outcomes, that more people have woken up to realising that they can't just sit back and wait for some ambiguous medicine to come and save them?


Jost Sauer: (03:25)

Yeah, the way I look at it, because I'm a big follower of the I Ching, I'm a follower of the Chinese medicine, the Taoist view. And we don't have the word "crisis" in that philosophy. We only have transition. So society is in a transition to the next stage, the seam as 20 years ago there was a transition into that stage that it is right now, and it's left to this proliferation of symptoms that seem to be uncontrollable. But it's because of all these many, many events coming together that has weakened society, and has made society fragile, that a virus can uproot them.


Jost Sauer: (04:03)

Chinese doctors in China, a lot of the Chinese doctors believe COVID can not ... they actually see that without a preconceived condition, you actually can't be affected by this virus. The Lancet released a great article a month ago, one month ago. It said, "There is no pandemic. It's not a pandemic. COVID-19 is not a pandemic." They named it a syndemic, a syndemic. S-Y-N-demic, meaning there's a lot of little or many, many little factors coming together. They basically stated in the article that looking at COVID as a medical problem, biological medical problem, will not address the issue. They stated that we need to look at what has caused the fragility in the society. They call it the NCDs, the non-communicable diseases, such as diabetes, obesity, blood pressure, et cetera.


Jost Sauer: (05:11)

The non-communicable diseases, the NCDs, are the predispositions required for the COVID to create havoc. So when you really see what has caused the problem, is in fact nothing else than a sign of nature to tell us we've got to take stock of who we are. This is now a new way forward, a transition into identifying who we are, and move forward into a life that would reclaim our true rights and what we are.


Jost Sauer: (05:50)

For example, 20 years ago people were still sleeping all night. Sleep disorders were the minority. I've been in therapy for over ... I've been working with people for 40 years now, so it's a long time, yes? I've observed people for 40 years, a little over 40 years. So I have been listening to stories for over 40 years. And sleep problems have never been presented as in the last few years. It has become a pandemic of sleep disorders.


Mason: (06:28)

Yeah. A real pandemic. Like, that's a solid pandemic. Yeah.


Jost Sauer: (06:35)

Yeah. Yeah, that's a real pandemic. It's the fact that people don't sleep proper anymore. And sleep is a mystery. Science will not make sense out of sleep. They may tell, "Okay, we need seven hours' sleep," but what that really means, they don't know. In Chinese medicine, in the Taoist philosophy, we are a spirit that incarnates into the physical world, and the physical world is enormously hostile territory. Incarnating into the physical form is like landing on Mars. It's not our home.


Jost Sauer: (07:07)

Lao Tzu stated 2,500 years ago, "Humans don't feel at home on earth." No one feels at home here, because it's not our home. For some reason, we decided to incarnate into a physical form, to limit our perceptions, to have incredible resistance back to us, in order to expand something that is enormously fragile. And in order to expand it, we are exposed to all kinds of enemies. Those enemies are designed in order to strengthen us, but also to expand and build that what we call the physical. So it's a battlefield, being here. The Bhagavad Gita also states it's a battlefield, being here. So we need to see ourselves as star travellers that enter the physical, and we are warriors, and we're going to fight.


Jost Sauer: (07:59)

We've got to be prepared. We need to have the shield up every day. We need to have the sword in our hand, upright, ready for the battle. Then we know, if we go into hostile territory, say we land on Mars, we know exactly we need to return to the mothership in order to get oxygen, in order to refuel ourself. That is what sleep is. So every time we sleep, we're returning home. We're going back to where we come from. Then we get to replenish. We get new ammunition. We get new weapons. Our software gets updated. We get new instructions. We get a new understanding. We've got new maps for the hostile territory. We get new teachings. So when we wake up, we're entering the uniform again, and we are ready back in the body, and now we can, okay. Let's do the next mission.


Jost Sauer: (08:57)

But since those smartphones have come on the market, the first iPhone and all this stuff, people now sleep with iPhones. It's only 3% now of the population who don't sleep with their phone. We've never had that before. If you have your electric device right beside your bed, you are in alert mode. The electric EMF of the EMI of the phone keeps you into the alert mode. It means it takes you to the physical. Alert means I'm physical.


Jost Sauer: (09:35)

In order to transcend to sleep, that means I'm going back to my mothership where I can get rejuvenated. I need to leave. I need to get away from Mars and go into orbit, in order to be home again. That's exactly what we do when we sleep. We go into orbit. We're leaving the planet. We go outside so we can, "Ah. I'm back safe." I mean, who likes to wake up and say, "Shit, I feel awesome"?


Mason: (10:10)

Yeah, and that's the pandemic of that not happening.


Jost Sauer: (10:12)

Yes. That's a pandemic. The pandemic is the smartphone. The pandemic is [crosstalk 00:10:19].


Mason: (10:21)

I don't even find this to be even slightly controversial in saying, if that's a staple for health and staple for ... I mean I guess I'm talking about from a Taoist philosophy having the capacity for one's hun to travel, which is something I wouldn't mind talking to you, and get some distinction for everyone to understand how we nourish ourselves at night with our huns travelling. But if we have a pandemic of people not sleeping well, correlated to certain things like phones, and lights on at night, and just the lack of interest in having people have healthy sleep, therefore they don't heal, therefore they wake up feeling shit, therefore they're more susceptible to having symptoms and being more susceptible to viral infections [crosstalk 00:11:11]-


Jost Sauer: (11:10)

Yeah, of course. Of course. You're running out of oxygen. You may breathe, but you're running out of oxygen. What I mean with that, you're running out of chi. Like, sleep is necessary, unless you're a truly trained master who can bypass sleep by meditation techniques. Everyone, until then, depends on deep, nourishing sleep. Because what we tank, what we receive during sleep is chi, cosmic chi. There is no word for that in the Western sciences. Western science can't make sense out of sleep.


Jost Sauer: (11:50)

If you understand how to replenish the cosmic chi, you can work more with sleep in your personal need. But if you don't know how to do that, you need a certain amount of sleep, which is usually around seven hours. So-


Mason: (12:05)

Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry.


Jost Sauer: (12:08)

Yeah, so-


Mason: (12:10)

You can keep on going, please. Yeah.


Jost Sauer: (12:10)

That is where it gets critical, because in order to get the deep sleep we need to actually have a switch-off time. We need to actually have two hours away from, before we go to bed we already need to switch off. We can't just suddenly go to bed: "Okay, I need to sleep. I'm going. It's 9:59 p.m. Okay, I need to be asleep in three minutes." It doesn't work that way. We need to be completely switched off. We need to be actually letting go of the physical, and we need to be ourselves. We need to completely just be a blob, and just stay there, and just be who we are, without doing any social expectations, without anything.


Jost Sauer: (12:55)

In the old days, in the ancient days, that was well understood. They had the travelling storyteller. Every nighttime, when people sat around the fire, there was a storyteller that told the story that never ended, that never finished. But it put you away from the physical. It took you away into the astral world, into the imagination. And that's exactly what we need to go. The story makes you flow away. And that function in Chinese medicine is referred to as san jiao. In my book, I call it the Ferryman, because it is like crossing the shores, going from one shore to the next. You're going into the sleep land.


Jost Sauer: (13:39)

So we need actions two hours before we're going to bed that allows us to switch off, so that we can drift away. So this considered action that will now take the brainwaves to a very low state, to a beta state and then theta state, before we actually go to sleep. So we need to be actually in ... This is the good thing about understanding your heart rate. You need to get your heart rate down below 60, ideally, two hours before. Yeah. People who have Fitbits and things like that, I always tell them, "Look, just do breathing techniques to get your heart rate down below 60. You know you will be able to sleep proper." So I utilise technology.


Jost Sauer: (14:23)

I'm not against technology. I'm a big man of ... I love technology. But I'm using technology to explore the hostile territory, and I know exactly I need the technology also to go back home to my mother ship in orbit, so I can actually be at home in my cosmic state. I don't need technology for that, because technology can't do that. Technology's only designed to navigate the hostile territory on Mars, but not for my cosmic self. My spiritual self will not benefit from tech. But my physical benefits from tech. That means we need to understand when to use tech, and when not to use technology. The best time to use it, have half of your day with technology, half of the day no technology, and you're fine. Yeah?


Mason: (15:17)

That's a lot to ask. Which is, I'm with you. But sometimes I look back at my 2020, it was just so tech heavy because I was just so into business. I reflect now, and I'm in the middle of two months off now, where I'm able to ... I just get off my tech. And I'm feeling that contrast, and just the effect, Jost, of that maybe excessive tech without ... I like going into deep dives of using technology, as long as I have a plan on how I'm going to be stepping back into having enough time to basically swing the pendulum, come back to a natural state where I'm not around technology at all. Which is just something I didn't do last year, and now I'm kind of like, got to have a couple of months off to do it, which I think is healthy.


Mason: (16:08)

I was just going to ask, let's talk about the Ferryman. Because that's beautiful. The Ferryman, you know, if you think about sitting around the fire and telling stories, or playing music, there's almost a bridging to another dimension.


Jost Sauer: (16:27)

Yes, that's correct.


Mason: (16:28)

In this day and age, I see there's almost ... I call things often ... Not to pooh-pooh watching TV or anything like that, but sometimes I see things, I call them "toxic mimics", and things we do in this day and age to try and mimic what was done when we were in the real natural order, and natural flow. One of those is watching TV before we go to bed, to try and mimic this storyteller, of sitting around the fire.


Jost Sauer: (16:57)

Yes. Yes, yes, yes.


Mason: (17:00)

When you're talking about that period of say, that cycle of 8:00 to 10:00 p.m., what activities, what specifically are you doing? What are your clients doing, in order to enjoy and really be in that vibe?


Jost Sauer: (17:14)

Okay. TV is not the problem. For example I tell everyone, TV shows, if you watch one episode that is not connected to a follow-up, that you watch two episodes and three episodes, that actually will work in terms of the storytelling. If it's a good story, if it's a good TV show ... And a lot of creativity goes into creating awesome TV shows these days, especially because the story never ends. It's in line with the storyteller of the ancient days. The best thing is to have where the TV screen is not connected to a TV stage. You don't want advertising blaring, and things like that. That disrupts it. That is a disruptive emotion. So as, if you have one episode, it usually goes 55 minutes, you actually will get your brainwaves very low by the end of the episode. The idea is to be aware of the cliffhanger, and not to go for the next episode.


Jost Sauer: (18:25)

So it needs a bit of discipline. But if you live correctly throughout the day, that discipline actually doesn't take long. I mean, we need to realise that we are in a stage of transition. COVID means transition. Society is in transition. We need to understand that this is now the creativity required in order to develop a new way of living. Because the way forward, as the Lancet even said, we can't address COVID with vaccines. It will not work, because the cause of the problem with COVID is the lifestyle around that causes the complications. The invasion of COVID can only cause problems if there is a predisposed condition, according to all the research. And that is, Western medicine and Chinese medicine both agreeing that it's the lifestyle. That means we are forced now.


Jost Sauer: (19:25)

It's almost like we are going to look at that virus, it's Mother Nature waking us to, okay, we've got to take stock of who we are. We can't continue living the way we live. So whenever we talk about suggestions about changing our life, we are forced to look at this from a perspective, and say, "What are the other options?" We have run out of options, yes? There's really no way other than going ... The way forward is going inward, to identify, okay, I need to live a different life because I need to cut off from technology, say around 7:00, 8:00, 7:00 p.m. I've got to turn my phone off. I've got no choice. I can't have emails I'm answering from 7:00 p.m. onwards until the morning. I can't. I can't wake up to my phone. If I wake up to my phone, I'm not getting the cosmic qi that's required to provide all this immunity development.


Jost Sauer: (20:29)

If I wake up and go straight for my phone, I'll weaken my lung chi. It's a lot of research done on that now. Waking up and going straight to your phone, go for email, go for social media, it takes you away from trying to build the shield. When we wake up, we have to put the uniform on. When we wake up, it's like we're landing on Mars. We've got to first of all put the uniform on. We can't just walk outside into the hostile conditions without the proper uniform on. We're going to get plastered, big time. First of all, we've got to put that shield up.


Jost Sauer: (21:11)

That already has been articulated 3,000 years ago by the Chinese, where they understood when we wake up, the energy is in the lung, and the lung is our night, it's [inaudible 00:21:22]. It's our shield. If we know how to breathe, we're sealed off. First of all, we've got to get into bringing up the breathing. If I wake up and go straight for my phone, I'm allowing my armour to be open. So there's gaps in my armour.


Jost Sauer: (21:43)

Of course, if I go for Facebook or Instagram in the mornings, I basically tell my enemies where my gaps are in the armour. And bang, the arrows go straight in. Now I get emotionally entangled, and as soon as I get emotionally entangled, I can't get my immunity. Then obviously, now I'm getting outside. And we're surrounded by hostile bacteria and viruses all the time. It's just, every now and then they identify one. Next year, they're going to identify something totally different we don't even know yet. We don't know much about the physical. It's not our home, so of course we constantly discover something new.


Jost Sauer: (22:26)

But if you've got the shield up, then it can't get in. It's a fact. It can't get in, because we are on a mission here to expand something, and whoever created us understood that this is the job that we need to do. And they equipped us with all what we need. They gave us what we need. And all that we need, in order to have strong immunity, and energy, and vitality, and clarity, is within our body. They gave us everything, and it's stored in the organs. Each organ has got all the information about our mission on this planet, on this hostile planet.


Jost Sauer: (23:12)

If we wake up, we need to first of all engage with this information that's stored in our organs, and bring it forward, and then make contact with ground control, and get the message. Yeah? Receive it, and say, "Yes, I've got it," and then put your spacesuit on, and make the armour, put the armour on. Put the sword ... make the sword ready. Make the guns ready. Make the weapons ready. And then, so, okay, I can now get outside. That means I can now open up the phone.


Mason: (23:47)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lung, that middle shield and [inaudible 00:23:53], because even though you've got it as the night, as the archetype, lung is the night archetype in your [crosstalk 00:23:59], I just still hadn't really related to that feeling when you wake up. I guess I get drawn to feeling that way, and armoring up. And I get why some people feel quite precious about, "Oh no, that's too strong of a language." But it feels good for me.


Mason: (24:17)

I kind of feel like this year I've approached the morning quite softly and sweetly, and it doesn't mean that's going to go away, that yin element and that yin approach and quality that I have. But there has been lacking a bit of yang energy there for me, in the beginning of the day. So you've just helped me ignite that a little bit, there. And what an important day and age to remember that.


Jost Sauer: (24:41)

Yeah. The most important thing, the good thing about is that the universe is constantly providing us with incredible solutions and help. Like, there are incredible people on this planet. We've got Wim Hof. Wim Hof is providing the world with incredible techniques. I tell everyone, as soon as you get up the first thing what you need to do is get engaged with breathing techniques. The Navy Seals, before they do anything, they do breathing techniques. They do box breathing. You breathe in, one, two, three, four, hold the breath one, two, three, four, and then breathe out one, two, three, four, and then hold on the out breaths for one, two, three, four. You keep circulating like a box, slow, and then you count eventually up to eight, and nine, and 10, so you get a really deep, slow breath.


Jost Sauer: (25:36)

What it means is, it fills the whole body with chi. The Navy Seals understand that when you go into combat, you need to have clarity. You need to have emotional control. You can't just go into combat and being emotionally fragile. You can't be a commander, a soldier, when you lose the plot. You know? First of all, you've just got to have emotional control. Emotional control is the result of how you breathe, because in Chinese medicine, that's the metal element. Lung is a metal element, and metal controls emotions. So metal is the sword that chops wood, and wood is when emotions get out of control, like a tree that is out of control needs to get chopped in the branches, in order to grow proper. Otherwise, you've got the weeds going all around the house, and you suffocate.


Jost Sauer: (26:36)

In order to do that, we need the blade. That's the metal. That is directly connected to the breath. So as soon as we wake up, the first thing what we need to do is actually breathe correctly, because what that will do is, it will actually now saturate the body with chi. It makes the metal, the blade ready, in order to control the emotions. Like the old saying is, when someone is get angry, take a deep breath. That's what it's referring to. Of course, when we wake up no one feels good. Very few people feel good.


Jost Sauer: (27:14)

Why is that? Because when we are asleep, melatonin is still very high. That's why we sleep. When we wake up, melatonin can be still on a high level for at least one hour to two hours. So it can make people feel seasick. It can make people not with it. It's very common to wake up and feel, "Oh, I'm not with this." What research has shown, if you drink coffee when you wake up, you feel worse later in the day because this melatonin level that is high, coffee will aggravate it, and will cause a chemical imbalance that later in the day will cause havoc.


Jost Sauer: (27:54)

That's exactly in line with the qi cycle, because in the qi cycle we don't drink coffee until after breakfast. We don't use coffee to wake up. We use breathing techniques to wake up. We never use stimulants to wake up, because if you use stimulants, you're not going inward. That's the thing. So we need to tap into the qi that's in the body. We need to first of all get the tools that are within us, that is given to us on our mission to succeed in this hostile territory. And that's the qi in each of the organs. If we have any kinds of stimulants when we wake up, like coffee or tea, anything like that, we don't tap into the qi as effective. Yes?


Jost Sauer: (28:42)

I've been researching that for 40 years. Just water is the best way to have direct access to the qi stored in the organs. As soon as you have anything else in there, you start diluting. You're hindering the access to the qi in the organs. And the breathing techniques, either box breathing ... I mean, I'm a big fan of Wim Hof. I mean for me, Wim Hof breathing really gets you activated and energised. Like, it makes coffee look like kindergarten, okay?


Mason: (29:18)

Yeah, it's great.


Jost Sauer: (29:19)

Yeah. You will totally charge up, if you do four rounds of 40 breaths and hold it, and with every breath you hold it for three minutes, so that means you have got like 15 minutes or 17 minutes already like that in the first. You have charged up the qi for the rest of the day. Just like that is enough.


Jost Sauer: (29:43)

The way I work with people is, when you wake up, ignore how you feel. It's most likely melatonin on peak level. It's an unresolved issue from the previous day. Because the metal element is directly connected, associated with the large intestine, and the large intestine is detox. So before we start the day, we need to let go of the previous, of all the shit from the day before. It's like you clear the armour first. So before you put the qi in, you're going to clear out all the armour. You clear out everything. You clear the valves. You clear everything out. That's the toxic chi. That's the emotion from the previous day.


Jost Sauer: (30:27)

Most likely when you wake up and you feel bad, it's because melatonin levels up, because toxicity wants to be released. Once again, if you drink coffee you interfere with the process. You don't allow the organ to do it. If you drink coffee, that means the coffee is doing it but not the organs. You want the organ to do it, not the coffee. Yeah?


Jost Sauer: (30:52)

Coffee is great. I love coffee. I have it after breakfast. Never abuse coffee when you need it to wake up. Your organs got all the qi to make you feel good. It's a fact. Everyone I work with after a while realises, "My god, everything I need to feel good is within me." So that's tucked away, hidden in the organs. If you drink coffee, if you pick up social media straight on waking up, it's like the universe gives us this beautiful supply of cosmic chi, this beautiful energising substance, and we say, "Nah, nah, nah. I want some secondary bullshit. Can I have some?" Yeah?


Mason: (31:35)

We're scared about getting the finer things. We're scared of the abundance, Jost.


Jost Sauer: (31:38)

Yeah. It's incredible what's within us. It's absolutely incredible. So the breathing techniques will unleash that. Then the next thing is to mobilise the body. We have got yoga moves these days. We've got all kinds of like ... I've got a beautiful 15-minute bodyweight workout routine on my website. I recommend it [crosstalk 00:32:06] have that, and it uses lunges and all the core training combined. I worked out a sequence that have been researched over what works best, in just 15 minutes, with my experience derived from 40 years of intense exposure to practise of kung fu, and et cetera.


Jost Sauer: (32:24)

Then after the breathing techniques, you mobilise the body. You want to free the core chi, the qi in the gall bladder meridians. So we need to then mobilise all the qi in each of the meridian. That means we get it, and then that's sometimes all we need. Yeah?


Mason: (32:44)

Mm-hmm (affirmative).


Jost Sauer: (32:45)

Then so it's half an hour every morning. But man, the results, the rewards of that ...


Mason: (32:55)

It's interesting to think, I've talked to a lot ... that has been one of the biggest talking points from our two other podcasts, that people, whether it's the crew here at SuperFeast, or people that have listened to it, when we talk about the mornings. And so, there's a qi cycle, there's a particular ... For those of you that are new and you haven't got Jost's book, or you're not familiar with the Chinese organ wheel, where there's particular times, rough times where I guess there's a concentration of qi in particular organs, and they're generally like two-hour blocks, and Jost really dives into that, and is really doing a really wonderful job in helping us integrate that into the western world.


Mason: (33:38)

Basically, what people have talked about most is how, a lot of the time you're going ... the energy of the lung at that time is doing its job already. So there's going to be periods where people are going, "I don't have to go and put a lot of energy into breath work." Then what they've done and realise is, there's going to be a certain amount that my lungs can do without attention. Then when they give as much attention as they can, because there are times where they get a little bit of breath work, even when they don't feel like it, or during that time they're like, "No, I'm going to give it a little bit of attention" ... Even though things weren't bad, yet, when they weren't in that cycle, they're like, "Oh." It is much better.


Jost Sauer: (34:25)



Mason: (34:26)

[crosstalk 00:34:26] does. And so I think that was the biggest thing for people. They were like, "It seems like unless I do this huge breath work at this time, I'm going to be getting no benefit, or there's going to be no help." I always say, "No, that's not what Jost is saying. He's saying if we want to stay vibrant, long-term, we can just get ahead of it. You might as well ... The other thing, this is where it is, the other thing.


Mason: (34:52)

People go, "I just don't feel like it in the morning, and that's what my body's telling me. I'm going to listen to my body." I understand that can be there. To a certain extent that can be acceptable, in some instances. But the amount of people that have gone by your advice, and gone, "I've not listened to my body, and I've tried to feel my chi," and then being compassionate as they went along ... They're not just going into adrenal depletion when they're ... They're not flogging their body, if they're physically exhausted, but nonetheless, they've listened to their qi and they've experimented with not doing what the body wants, but doing what it needs.


Jost Sauer: (35:39)



Mason: (35:41)

A lot of people have had really, really profound, profound outcomes doing that. I feel like in the Byron Bay kind of consciousness thing, it's quite a ... even though I don't find it that in-your-face, it's quite an alarmist thing for some people to hear. No, ignore. Realise what the qi cycle is, where the energy is in the organs, and what that organ wants to do at that time of day. It's been really profound for a lot of people.


Jost Sauer: (36:10)

Yes. Yeah. I mean, inertia is part of the physical. There are certain forces around us that are present, regardless of what we do, and regardless of what state we are in terms of our consciousness. Inertia is a force, a law of the physical. Inertia doesn't exist in the spiritual. So being here, we are subject to inertia. We need to push against it. We can't go by how we feel in the morning, simply because we don't know what that means, how we feel in the mornings, yet, because we don't have access to the wisdom of the body. The only thing that we have is like feelings on the periphery. But there is no connection to the wisdom of the body yet. The wisdom of the body is hidden in layers of jung, inertia, and kind of a lot of stuff.


Jost Sauer: (37:13)

Of course, it's not about going for a hard core run. We don't force. That's Chinese medicine over and over. We don't force, but we don't be lazy either. And we ignore the voice of not wanting to do it. The aim is to start to get going. Then as you get going, the qi starts to move. As the qi starts to move, it will have access to the wisdom of the body. The body then will start saying. But unless you get the movement and the qi flowing, you will not know what your body wants. So it's a critical situation that we actually need to do before we see what the body wants.


Jost Sauer: (37:56)

If I wake up, and give into what I think the body wants, it's most likely not what my body's telling me. It's inertia speaking, it's melatonin spiking, it's a toxic energy from the previous day that now sits in my meridians. Toxic energy from the previous day can sit in the gallbladder meridian, liver meridian, and can make you really lazy. That means you can really feel ... and it can give you then an impression that you need to sit for a while, and that you need to contemplate for a while, and that you need to think for a while. Chinese medicine always says, "Don't think. Feel. Feel, don't think."


Jost Sauer: (38:40)

If I think I don't get the message of my body, I need to feel. But if I wake up, what I feel is most likely the meridians are clogged and blocked with this toxic chi, because we have been exposed to a hostile territory the previous day, and there is some debris in our body that needs to be cleared out first. That comes forward as a feeling, and we can translate that as a wisdom of the body. So thinking will not regulate that. We need to transcend thinking.


Jost Sauer: (39:15)

The quickest way to transcend that thinking and by getting a root feel, is by Wim Hof breathing technique. Yeah? Or by square breathing, or box breathing. According to my observation having worked with so many thousand of people in my time, the Wim Hof breathing works more aggressively in terms of feel-good, whereas the box breathing is more on the yin aspect, but also brings in the feel-good. The box breathing doesn't give the feel-good that Wim Hof does. Wim Hof is just very aggressive, in terms of making you feel good.


Jost Sauer: (39:51)

I mean, all the big gurus and masters say, yeah, yeah. Do it, it's good. He's definitely a high being. He's definitely an enormously high, evolved soul, who's also a bit of a character. If you don't know him, before you judge him check him out. That's what I tell everyone. A lot of people judge him without having actually researched him. Once you start researching him, you can't actually fault him. He's crazy. He's an insane character who he just doesn't buy into opinions and things like this. He's like a Taoist, perfect emptiness, and makes the mickey out of shit.


Mason: (40:30)

Have you met him?


Jost Sauer: (40:33)

No, no. I've never met him. But I've been following him obviously for a while, since he started. I think it was six, seven years ago when first people heard about him. What the Feast is doing, and constantly demonstrates that it's qi what gets you ... And the Wim Hof breathing technique shows you very quickly that it's qi that moves your body. Without the techniques, you can't imagine holding your breath for three minutes. It only takes a week or two weeks, and you can hold your breath for three minutes. What you're holding, once you ... your body then feeds on chi.


Jost Sauer: (41:17)

I've been a practitioner of qi for 40 years. The Wim Hof breathing technique takes you into a profound qi experience that otherwise would take 10, 20 years with kung fu or Tai chi. So it's a shortcut. Within one week, you are there what otherwise would take 15 years. You have to make it correct. If you don't do it correct, it gets ... Because it's so incredibly precise, just doing it a little bit not right, you're not getting the impact. It has to be really, really like ... if you check out the Wim Hof breathing on YouTube, but just follow his method, then you know what to do. But everyone can learn it immediately.


Jost Sauer: (41:59)

That's the beauty. All that stuff that we need is within ourselves, and it's so easy to learn. It's so easy to learn. You just have to do it.


Mason: (42:12)

It's definitely very accessible. He's taken [crosstalk 00:42:16] principles from very ancient traditions, and somehow not bastardised, not isolated it. Hey, before we go, I want to ask two things. First, I'd just like to quickly, because there was such a big concentration on sleep there, and especially from the Taoist perspective and philosophy what's actually happening in sleep. And I'd like, there seems to be a lot of, of course it's a big cyclical motion, like [inaudible 00:42:49] from day to night. And there's a lot of important things going on at night, as you've said. I want to hear it, if you don't mind, from the perspective of one's hun.


Jost Sauer: (42:58)



Mason: (42:59)

Just because it's been something I liked getting the perspective of. You've got such a deep, and classical, and a shamanic foundation which I love, perspective and way of explaining Taoism. For one to relate to their liver and the their hun, could you just take us through that, and what happens to the hun when we do effectively sleep?


Jost Sauer: (43:21)

Yeah. Okay. Chinese medicine states, or the Tao states, that in physical form we are two beings in one. We've got the infinite spirit, and that's hun. Then we've got the temporary spirit, which is po, P-O. Hun is regulated by the liver, and hun is movement. The reason why it's regulated by the liver is because the liver is responsible for expanding, for moving towards the next. It's the organ affiliated with direction. The liver will always need to move.


Jost Sauer: (44:12)

If the liver does not move, then you experience that as frustration or anger. For example, if you drive a car and someone cuts you off, that translates immediately as anger. And because you have been in the flow, and flow feels good, the reason why kids love lunar park is because it's liver. It resembles the liver. It resembles hun. It resembles movement. If they would stand on a spot and just don't do anything, they wouldn't see the fun in that, and they wouldn't go. But because they go in circles all the time, and it's always moving towards the next, that's why that's the liver.


Jost Sauer: (44:52)

But the liver is also activated when people do drugs. That rush that we get from cocaine or smoking pot is actually the hun. The liver moving expanded. You wouldn't do drugs. If you wouldn't experience movement, you wouldn't do drugs if you would feel resistance in that moment.

If someone says, no, you can't do that. On drugs. Yeah. One line of cocaine, I can do things. I can do this. I can do that. And then you smell good cone and then, bang. I am going to do this. I am going to do that. That is lever hun. Like, let me do drugs and hun gets mobilized. It freezes itself. So we feel good at that moment, which is why drugs are the biggest business in the world.


Jost Sauer: (45:36)

Sexual arousal also makes liver qi move, so it's also affiliated with the hun. That's why we love sex, because when you feel tired, exhausted and feel restricted, but as soon as you get sexually aroused and get horny, you want to do something, by god, your energy comes forward. That is all part of the hun.


Jost Sauer: (46:00)

The reason why we have hun and are regulated by the liver is so that we understand being here in the physical is a mission to do something. We have come here in order to build something, in order to expand something. As I said, we have landed on Mars, and it's our job now to develop a colony. It's not, we have landed on Mars, and just sit there and stare at the stars and do nothing. We didn't come from Mars for that. We landed on this planet in order to build something, in order to do something next, in order for a civilization to start. Then we move to the next star. We're expanding the physical. That's hun.


Jost Sauer: (46:45)

The hun is an astral projection of ourselves. So when people have astral sleeps or astral travel, that's the hun. It's moving forward. When people have psychosis, or psychotic episodes, the hun gets freed without having any connection to what is actually the limitation of the physical. So it does make sense to those who are in the physical world and subject to limitations, to engage with something that is not restricted by limitations. It doesn't seem to make sense. And that means the hun sees different things to that person who sees the restrictions. That means the psychotic episode is nothing else than your hun coming forward. It's like you're fully asleep and fully awake at the same time.


Jost Sauer: (47:39)

Obviously, every time we feel good and doing expanding, that's all the hun aspect. But then, we also got hostile territory, and that's regulated by the lungs, and the metal. It constricts it, because the metal constricts the hun. This is where the po is the other spirit, the corporate soul, is affiliated with the metal element. It's a metal.


Jost Sauer: (48:08)

The metal in the five element theory controls the wood element. Wood is hun. Metal is the corporate soul, po. So the hun can't exist in the physical without the impact of po, the restrictive soul. That means the hun is always in clash with the information how po wants us to live. Po wants security, because po, the corporate soul, is temporary. It only lives for a certain time. It's moving towards death. The body, the moment we are born or incarnate in the physical, we are moving towards death. And death is regulated by po. And po controls hun.


Jost Sauer: (49:00)

When we have the hippy dream, the dream of the wakening up, the dawn of the Aquarian age, planetary alignment of brotherhood, that's all hun. So then what we see now with these COVID regulations, that's all po.


Mason: (49:25)

Yeah, right.


Jost Sauer: (49:25)

So we've got the hippy dream, and then we've got COVID regulations, and they completely contradict each other, because po is scared of death. It's totally scared of death. So po thinks it's going to die. Hun wants freedom and express, and wants to create great things because it doesn't die. Hun never dies. But po dies. That means we are subject to the fear of death, and the need to express our dreams and freedom at the same time.


Jost Sauer: (49:58)

So the hun is always in conflict and in battle with po. Po dies, hun doesn't. That means if we don't understand how to control the metal element through the correct lifestyle, the fear aspect of po will start ruling us, and fear will now govern our life. And it's exactly what we are experiencing now. We have now become the most fearful society of all times. The society we see right now, it would be a shame to the Vikings of the old days, you know?


Jost Sauer: (50:35)

There's no adventure anymore. It's just like, "I can't get out of the door, because I'll get killed." My god, the Vikings went on the boat not even knowing where they're going to go. That's the spirit. The spirit is, let's go with it. Just see what happens. We landed on Mars, let's see what happens. But po stops us, yeah? So if the metal element is not in a good place, what happens is it'll make fear worse.


Jost Sauer: (51:08)

If we don't sleep much, we don't get cosmic chi. If we don't get cosmic chi, hun can't get supported. Hun needs ... hun, that's our dream, our expansion, our wanting to go out and explore. Hun needs cosmic chi. The liver is directly dependent on chi. And that qi needs to come from the universe. It can't come from any other source. So because we don't sleep, the society doesn't sleep much anymore, it doesn't get much cosmic chi. So now, hun gets weak, po gets stronger. That means desire for adventure goes low, and fear goes up.


Jost Sauer: (52:15)

What we can see with the pandemic is an imbalance between following up on our dreams, and fear. Too much fear, not enough dreaming. Yeah? That's the problem. That's what we see now.


Mason: (52:29)

[crosstalk 00:52:29] opportunity creates qi.


Jost Sauer: (52:30)

Yeah. People are almost like, paralysed by fear. The majority of the population is paralysed by fear. And so obviously the media works on that, and they want you to be in fear because you're buying more. Since COVID, the media has made so much money. I mean, the people who will make money from COVID don't want COVID to go. Yeah?


Mason: (53:00)



Jost Sauer: (53:01)

Yeah. And so what we see now is, we don't sleep. Hun depletes. Hun means your dreams. You want to follow up, you have the adventure to follow up on your dream. Because you don't sleep, you don't get the cosmic chi. Hun hasn't got any food. Therefore, because everything's regulated by yin and yang, as one goes down, the other one goes up. It's how it is. When hun goes down, fear goes up.


Mason: (53:34)

So you're saying we're entering into a new age. That was one that you mentioned, creativity, coming into this new time period, this period that we [crosstalk 00:53:41].


Jost Sauer: (53:42)

Yeah. We're supposed to. Yeah. It's about the dawn of the Aquarian age. That means it's actually the age of hun, in that respect. Yeah? But instead what we see is, it's the age of po.


Mason: (53:55)

Well, it's like at some point, hun and po are designed to be dancing together, aren't they, within the system.


Jost Sauer: (54:03)



Mason: (54:05)

I was going to ask you what the greatest opportunity is, going forward. [crosstalk 00:54:06].


Jost Sauer: (54:06)

The greatest opportunity? Okay. This is a fact. Every time we see society going through a transition, what we observe is people's emotions are very active, very high, very up. So if people's emotions are up, there's usually a lot of ... People are looking for solutions. People are looking. And most people can see that things don't add up anymore. Things don't quite make sense. It doesn't quite make sense. So as we now, in this transitional stage moving in towards something new, with it is a new economy also.


Jost Sauer: (55:00)

Every time a society goes through a transition, there's a new economy. There's a new business. There's new business opportunities. And the business opportunities are right now for about how to nourish your liver, how to bring cosmic qi into your life, how to control fear, how to control emotions. Because we can't go by what is presented to us anymore by the media. No one even knows what's going, anymore. And because everyone is more ruled by fear, even if you would ... I have been in meetings, at Zoom meetings with health professionals, and data has been presented about the real rate about how many people have been tested, with all the PCR test and things like that, and what's actually real, and how many people really are dying. But if your fear is up, you see a totally different figure than if your fear is low.


Jost Sauer: (56:00)

I've seen, I've been in meetings where two different groups of people looked at the same data, and see a totally different figure. And so we can pretty much say that we can't go by what we read, anymore. We don't know what we read in the media, if that's true. People are holding onto things, because if the journalist is imbalanced between hun and po, and has got more po than hun, the story will be about po, because po is scared of death. If the journalist is more hun than po, then it will be a great, inspiring article, and you'll want to follow.


Jost Sauer: (56:50)

If you read the article about someone who is primarily all po energy, then you want to stay home and stay safe, and don't get out. Obviously po, the corporate soul, doesn't want us to leave the house. It's scared of death. But it's that its mechanism. It's a mechanism in the metal element, that it's telling us we are moving towards death. So if you have an imbalance in your metal element, your lung and large intestine, and it is interesting that COVID is a respiratory disease ... if there's an imbalance in the metal element then you have more fear. Then you're more scared of death, than if you wouldn't have that imbalance.


Jost Sauer: (57:36)

So now, information about a virus that is deadly now becomes a reality, as opposed to someone who has got far too much hun, and doesn't see it. For them, it's just whatever. I just keep going. Yeah?


Mason: (57:49)

Mm-hmm (affirmative).


Jost Sauer: (57:50)

Obviously the first thing what we need to do, in order to get the wisdom of the body, because the only person who knows what's going on is the wisdom in the body, in the organ. The organ knows what is going on. That means, first of all, I need to learn how to live correctly, so that my metal element, my lung and large intestine, are functioning well. Because if my lung functions well, I have strong immunity. But also, I have wisdom and insight, because the metal element, the good side is that you will have insight. You will understand what is actually real, and what is not real. If your metal element, your lung is deficient and your liver is deficient, then you can't make sense of data. Whatever the newspaper they're telling you, you can't look through.


Jost Sauer: (58:40)

Whereas if you've got strong qi in your lungs, you will know immediately this article is full of bullshit. I don't listen to this. I don't share this. I don't go into it. If you've got lots of hun and liver energy, you want to share good news. You don't want to share bad news. If you've got a deficiency in the lung, you want to share bad news, because po is scared of death. It's lying. It wants others to be part of the death.


Mason: (59:05)

And po [crosstalk 00:59:06] there's more discernment as well, when you have lung chi, right? Even if it's something really negative, you can be like, "At least it's not bullshit. At least that's good, objective information."


Jost Sauer: (59:21)

Yeah. I got very strong lung chi, so I love watching the news. I go, "Bullshit, bullshit. BS, BS, BS." I wouldn't share that. I've found it quite a sort of comedy. It's quite entertaining to watch the news, about all this crap that these people talk about. I mean, it's a hostile territory so it's an adventure being here. But you do need to sort out, and the metal cuts through bullshit. That's what it is. If your lung qi is strong, you will cut through bullshit. But then you've got your shield up, and things can't come in.


Mason: (01:00:02)

Any, to take us into land, because this has been amazing ... Not to make any claims or any correlations, but I'm just thinking, herbs. What have you found yourself being drawn to, during ... Which herbs and formulas have you been using? It's going to be a personal journey, but I'm just interested.


Jost Sauer: (01:00:24)

Look, this is obviously the other topic. I love herbs. I take herbs all the time. I take herbs every day. I've been taking herbs for 35 years, every day. I take them about three or four times during the day. I got a whole range of formulas I work with. Herbs work best by experimenting to work out what works for you. I'll tell everyone, just experiment, because this is how we learn Chinese medicine. Chinese medicine didn't start with a book. [crosstalk 01:00:55]. It didn't start with a book.


Jost Sauer: (01:01:00)

It didn't start, someone gave them a book and said, "Take this." No. It was usually someone who had a deep meditation, and the spirit of the plant communicated with them, and they acted on it, and they tried it, and it did something they liked. And they shared it with others, and they observed. Then, that and more afterwards, after hundreds of years, someone started writing it down. Then someone had another epiphany. They had a mediation, deep breathing techniques, and suddenly the plant in them ... The plants communicate to us. They want us. They love us. They want to be with us, but we don't listen to them.


Jost Sauer: (01:01:42)

If you do a breathing technique, deep breathing technique underneath a tree, the tree will start talking to you. It's a fact. And science even has validated that aspect now, that trees got consciousness. Obviously, trees have got a different kind of consciousness to humans. As trees die, the next tree takes on the consciousness from the previous tree. So it's an incredible connection with the overall consciousness. The memory that a tree takes on is the memory from way back whatever, when the first tree was born.


Jost Sauer: (01:02:15)

But they love humans. Not so much, they're not keen on humans who cut trees off. But they love humans who will just respect them, will just ... If you go to a tree and say, "Hello," and "Nice meeting you," the tree will talk to you. And if you do Tai qi every day around, beside the same tree, the tree will know you after a while. Then, the plant will start communicating with you.


Jost Sauer: (01:02:46)

This is not like esoteric bullshit or New Age stuff. That is actually something that, that's what Chinese medicine has done. That's what shamans did. They communicated with the consciousness around us. Everything around us is conscious. The planet is conscious. That means everyone has got an experience about life, and they're happy to share, because everyone's connected to hun. That means everyone wants to expand. So if I go to a tree, the hun of the tree wants to talk to me, because he wants to share. The same as when I meet a client, I want to share. The same as, when you do your podcast, you want to share. That's hun. The plants also want to share.


Jost Sauer: (01:03:32)

Of course, we need to get a starting point with herbs, and you do that with SuperFeast. You provide people with all these kinds of mushrooms, and people start taking it. Then you will realise after a while, okay, I can take only a quarter spoon of jing. If I take three tablespoons of jing, it's not quite a good idea.


Mason: (01:03:52)

Not long-term, anyway.


Jost Sauer: (01:03:55)

I know people would do that, yeah?


Mason: (01:03:58)

They do. They do. Some we need to talk off the ledge, and some people are like, "I want two heaped teaspoons, but I'm scared to do it." I'm like, "Go for it. Just remember, if you start, you need to then listen to when your body tells you to stop."


Jost Sauer: (01:04:16)

Yeah. Yeah. A starting point is always like the general herbal formulas. The general herbal formula that I'll talk to everyone about, they're the major fours and six majors. They're the spleen stomach builders. Spleen, stomach, lung, like a six major herb formula, or the gentlemen, six major or the four major. They'll build stomach, spleen, and lungs.


Jost Sauer: (01:04:45)

Then you've got the bupleurum formulas that work on the liver, so now you're working on regulating liver. I just love bupleurum and cyperus. I love that. I have that a couple of times throughout the day, because it helps me assist with my liver. I love the bamboo formulas, because they make sure that the energy in the heart doesn't get too far into the excitement, and actually gets me a little bit more into calmer. I love the dong quai formulas. People say they're more in the oestrogen and more for women. Well, I'm a yang man and I love dong quai formulas. I take them every day. I haven't seen anything ... I'm 62 years of age. I haven't seen any impact yet on my testosterone. So there's a lot of [crosstalk 01:05:36]-


Mason: (01:05:35)

You don't look like you're having any problems with your testosterone. I want to point that out as well. I'm like that as well. Every now and then, I've really loved having, like we've got ... well there's various dong quai formulas Tahnee has around, but we've got an iron women's formula, I Am Gaia. [crosstalk 01:05:57] with women's herbs. And I love having it sometimes. It's the [crosstalk 01:06:01]. Yeah. [inaudible 01:06:04].


Jost Sauer: (01:06:05)

Yeah. Those formulas are really good before you go to bed, yes? I sometimes have the dong quai formulas, especially the dong quai and peony, which is ... Dong quai and peony formula is primarily useful for women and menstrual problems, and things like that. I love that after a good workout, because it actually builds the blood, to mobilise the blood flow in the muscles. It prevents muscle soreness. And I take it before I go to bed. It's just like, whoa. You've got this nice sleep.


Jost Sauer: (01:06:39)

The herbs is Mother Nature telling us to support our body, because the body that is given to us is come from nature, and it needs the elements of nature. Herbs are the elements of nature that will build the body. I've been taking herbs all those years now, all those decades. And I always tell people, "Look, when I was young, I didn't notice much about the herbs, but I'm glad I did it, because it's building a foundation." Now that I'm 62, I'm in my 60s, and my wife is also in her 60s, we both can see it's working. We are proof. And my body, the foundation of repair is like a younger body because of the herbs. Obviously, the longevity that the Chinese are talking about, I see that on a regular basis when I train under Chinese. But they take herbs all the time.


Jost Sauer: (01:07:39)

I love good red wine. I have red wine, and I put a little bit of herbs in there. Like whoa, beautiful. You know?


Mason: (01:07:46)

Oh man, [crosstalk 01:07:47] wine?


Jost Sauer: (01:07:49)

Yeah. Red wine and good herbs. Great idea.


Mason: (01:07:53)

Yeah. I'm sort of big on that. Like sangrias with goji and longan, and Chinese date, and schisandra.


Jost Sauer: (01:08:00)

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I mean, it's like, if I realise I'm taking too much of some of the herbs, I notice right away it's not promoting my body to the best function. It's not something you can abuse. That's the thing. It's not something you can abuse, because if you abuse it, firstly some of the herbs, you don't notice. They'll stop working. But then when the body needs them, they will start working again. There's a lot of the [inaudible 01:08:32] like that. If you don't need it, the body doesn't take it. But if the body needs it-


Mason: (01:08:37)

[crosstalk 01:08:37].


Jost Sauer: (01:08:38)

Yeah, yeah. It's one of those things. Western people have got, they've got a lot of fear of herbs. They think you only should take it when you need it, and when you need help and things like that. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's about giving the body, the idea is to build a strong body every day. Every day, you build the body. You build it. And so the idea is to work with it.


Jost Sauer: (01:09:07)

If you've got the basic formulas, like the qi builder, the liver qi movers, and then the calming ones, then you've got pretty much what you need in order to explore. You've got the four directions, north, south, east and west. Then you start experimenting a little bit with it. Then after a while, it guides you. But the fact is, you will feel stronger. Your body is stronger. Your mind is clearer, and you have more hun available.


Jost Sauer: (01:09:42)



Mason: (01:10:27)

Yeah. Absolutely.


Jost Sauer: (01:10:28)

That's why everyone needs to get started somewhere. Herbs are not something you can understand immediately. It will take a lifelong journey. But it's fascinating. It never ends. I mean, my 35 years with this medicine now, I'm only touching the surface. I can't imagine what it's like in another 30 years, by the time I'm in my 90s. I'll probably understand a little bit more. So this medicine is so incredibly big and deep, but it's fascinating because the more you ... Everyone can get engaged with this medicine. That's the beauty of it. It's medicine for the people. It's for all of us. And herbs are incredible ... Yeah, herbs are essential.


Mason: (01:11:24)

Yeah. 100%.


Jost Sauer: (01:11:26)

I mean, the Taoists I studied under, they told me herbs are superior to food. They're more important than food.


Mason: (01:11:32)

I'm with you on that. I mean, I know that that's something ... it's a big statement to say in this current health scene. But for me personally, I'm there with you. I love food. I'm very interested. But for me, the herbs and the impact that I feel like they've had on my body, and my spirit, and my jing and my chi, I buy them more than my food.


Jost Sauer: (01:11:57)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Mason: (01:11:58)

Not that I don't want my food. Not that I don't want food. I love my food. I'm' same as you. I've seen you eating some cake and loving it.


Jost Sauer: (01:12:05)

Yeah. No, that's the whole idea. That's the whole idea. Have a wholesome diet, like obviously of course you don't want to eat pizza and shit like that every day. But your body doesn't want it, if you live correctly. It's not like that. Obviously, a wholesome diet, good food, good nutrients, but don't get caught up in diet. And let herbs regulate the rest. That's how simple it is. That's how simple it is. And then breathing techniques, and chi.


Mason: (01:12:42)

Everything. Go back to the beginning and listen to the podcast, everyone.


Jost Sauer: (01:12:49)

Yeah, yeah. That's it. Yeah. Let's start again.


Mason: (01:12:50)

[crosstalk 01:12:50]. Jost, thanks so much for making the time. Would have been great ... Next time, we'll have you in person, hopefully. Or maybe I'm going to be coming up to Sunny Coast so I'd love to come. Are you still on the Sunny Coast?


Jost Sauer: (01:13:01)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm still at the Sunshine Coast. The country where we have no COVID for whatever months now, and it's probably because of the climate. I reckon it's because of the climate, because everyone's outside and the virus doesn't transmit when you're outside. The virus doesn't transmit when it's humidity. That's why lockdowns don't work. Lockdowns make the virus worse. That's why I'm an anti-lockdown person. Got to live. Got to be outside. Breathe lots of chi, cosmic chi. Take lots of herbs, and follow up on your ideas as derived by hun. Follow up, have adventure in your life, and everything's fine.


Mason: (01:13:49)

I love it, bro. And everyone wanting to hear more about Jost's views on everything and the pandemic, he's been sharing really well on your Facebook page [crosstalk 01:14:00]. But we'll put the link in your bio for everyone to go and check Jost out. You've got to get Jost on Instagram as well. You've got epic posts, a lot of decades of thought and energy go into your posts, and they quite often get shared between our team, going like, "Hey, have you read that one?" "Yeah, read it. Yeah, got it. Yeah."


Mason: (01:14:22)

You've got a lot of amazing books. We'll put a link down to your website, where everyone can see your books. Everyone's still, I still recommend Higher and Higher to people who have gone through addiction, drug addiction, or are just enjoying drugs, as well. [inaudible 01:14:40] far out. The feedback that I get from the people reading that is transformational, because it's not making them wrong. It's not like, "There's something wrong with you, and this is how you get through." It's just really well-written. Anyway, I'll let you go now. Thank you so much for coming.


Jost Sauer: (01:15:02)

All right. Yeah. Let's hope this border bullshit is sorted one day, so I can come down to Byron Bay hey.


Mason: (01:15:10)

Yeah, we've still got to get that workshop going. We were about to book you in again, to come down and do a workshop, ask you if you were available, and then hopefully do it again. But we'll get there.


Jost Sauer: (01:15:20)

Yeah, yeah. We need politicians who are into hun, and less into po. Vote for hun, not for po.


Mason: (01:15:30)

I'm with you, man. We got to get herbs subsidised first, and into Parliament House and then maybe we'll see a little bit ...


Jost Sauer: (01:15:39)

It would be a totally different world, if all the schools would have herbs, if there would be breathing techniques before they would do classes, if they would have three proper meals throughout the day. Oh my god, what a different world. And then, the world would be paradise if everyone at 7:00 p.m. turns off their mobile phone, and then storytelling and everyone in bed by 9:00, and everyone sleeps, and everyone gets up early and then warm, and then understands we as humans, we are one race together in order to explore this hostile territory, in order to build civilizations of the stars. That's our job. We come from the stars. We got to expand to the stars. That's the Chinese medicine view. That has been the view for 5,000 years, and I don't see the point why we should change that, because it's probably based on the reality.


Mason: (01:16:28)

Yeah, I'm with you. All right star beings, you get out there. Sleep well, get out there and explore and create, and be nice to each other.


Jost Sauer: (01:16:35)

Yeah. That's it. Yeah. automatically we'll be nice, because we're nice. In our nature, we are nice people. But if liver qi is constricted then we become grumpy. So make liver qi flow and be happy. Simple.


Mason: (01:16:47)

[inaudible 01:16:47] simple [inaudible 01:16:47] people.


Jost Sauer: (01:16:47)

Yeah, it's very simple. You just have to do it. All right. Yeah.


Mason: (01:17:00)

All right, thanks so much man. Catch you next time.


Jost Sauer: (01:17:03)

Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Talk to you then. Bye.

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