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In this episode of the SuperFeast podcast, Tahnee interviews Roni Edlund, a senior teacher at the Lotus Nei Gong School in Bali and an acupuncturist. Roni shares her journey of being exposed to Taoist internal cultivation practices despite their rarity in Sweden. She discusses feeling a void in her life and how she transitioned from a passion for horse riding to a path of holistic health and well-being. Tune in to learn more about Roni's unique journey and her fascinating experiences in the world of cultivation practices.

 

For those eager to delve deeper into Nei Gong and the teachings of Damo Mitchell, the current HQ for Lotus Nei Gong is in Bali, Indonesia. It is here that many of the most in-depth and advanced trainings of Lotus Nei Gong material take place.

To learn more about Lotus Nei Gong, visit the website here.

 

"I think the best thing women can do getting ready for pregnancy is just taking care of themselves emotionally and physically and using Chinese medicine to help regulate all those internal systems".

- Roni Edlund

Roni & Tahnee discuss:

• Women's Qigong and the Tahnee's Practice
• Menopause as a Second Spring
• The Importance of Blood in Taoist Philosophy
• Cultural Views on Menopause
• When to Start Cultivation Practices
• The Role of Craft and Creativity in Cultivation
• Chinese Medicine for Women's Health
• Lack of Menstrual Health Education
• The Momentum of Nei Gong Practice
• Gender Balance in Lotus Nei Gong School
• The Activation Phase in Nei Gong
• Women's Connection to the Moon and Menstruation
• Pregnancy and Cultivation Practices
• Emotional Clearing and Pregnancy
• Preparing for Pregnancy with Chinese Medicine
• Returning to Practice Post-Pregnancy

Who is Roni Edlund ?

Roni Edlund is a senior teacher at Lotus Nei Gong International, where she has, together with Damo Mitchell, immersed herself in the internal arts since 2008. She teaches Nei Gong, Women’s Nei Gong, Taiji, and holds professional qualifications as an acupuncturist. She often teaches alongside Damo on larger retreats as well as running her own, independent events. Roni has taught in the United Kingdom, United States, Sweden, Portugal, and currently resides in Bali. In addition to learning internal arts from Damo Mitchell, she has also studied in China with various internal arts teachers.

Her main focus in the beginning of her internal arts journey was Nei Gong, Yang-style Taiji and Shaolin Gong Fu. Subsequently, she pursued a three-year acupuncture degree at a university in England, alongside her internal arts practice. Following this, she engaged in another three years of study in Chinese medicine at Xiantian College. Over time, Women’s Nei Gong and meditation gradually became a larger part of her practice. Presently, she is becoming more passionate about benefiting women's health throughout the different phases of life, utilising the principles of Chinese medicine and Women's Nei Gong.

Resource guide

Guest Links

Lotus Nei Gong International
Roni Edlund Bio
Damo Mitchell Bio
Roni’s Instagram
Damo’s “A Comprehensive Guide to Daoist Nei Gong” Book
Lotus Nei Gong Bali HQ

Mentioned In This Episode

"Taoist Neigong for Women" by Roni

Related Podcasts
Pregnancy Prep with Tahnee and Mason Taylor (EP#14)
After Birth We Eat Strong Food; Postpartum Care with Jenny Allison (EP#38)
Nurturing All Phases of Birth with Nutritionist Tahlia Mynott (EP#138)
Real Nutrition For Maternal Wellbeing with Lily Nichols (EP#98)

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Check Out The Transcript Below:

Tahnee:

Hi everyone and welcome to the SuperFeast podcast, and today I am here with Roni Edlund and I'm so excited to speak to her. I'm a fan of her book and I think a fan of the rest of her work. I'm looking forward to seeing what's next for Roni. She's one of the main senior teachers out of the Lotus Nei Gong School that's currently based in Bali, and she is an acupuncturist. She has an incredible resume in terms of her cultivation practises, including time in the forest of Sweden, which I want to hear about. And yeah, it just seems like an all around legend. Roni, I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you so much.

Roni Edlund:

I think that's too kind words, but thank you. I'm very, very pleased to meet you and be on your podcast.

Tahnee:

Yeah, thanks so much. So I wanted to start with, if you don't mind, just sharing how you came to be exposed to these ideas, because I think growing up in Sweden, I'm not sure that Daoist internal cultivation practises were particularly common. I could be wrong, but I've had a few Swedish friends over the years and none of them found that they found it within their community, they had to go abroad. So I'm curious as to what the motivation or the spark was for you to follow this path.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, no, I think these kind of practises in Sweden, I think particularly 20 years ago it was very dead. I don't think it existed much. I think Sweden is very science-based, very work-based, very based in the physical. So yeah, I think in general I just felt like something was missing. And if I look back, I think I would say I was probably a little bit depressed, even though I had a lot of passion, I was into horse riding and show jumping. I probably thought that that was what I was going to do for the rest of my life, but I felt like I needed something new. So I think subconsciously I was looking for something, but I did just go travelling to Asia, to Thailand for a month, just for a holiday. And most of the time I was travelling by myself and that's where I met my husband.

Tahnee:

Oh, you met Damo on that trip?

Roni Edlund:

Yes.

Tahnee:

Oh my goodness. How serendipitous.

Roni Edlund:

We only met for a few hours on a boat to an island on a bus, so we exchanged-

Tahnee:

Which boat or which island were you travelling to and from?

Roni Edlund:

I was travelling to Koh Lanta.

Tahnee:

One of the...

Roni Edlund:

He was coming to Ko Pu, a tiny island with a funny name. So yeah, we changed details and then I did the same mistake with you. I wrote his email down wrong when I tried to contact him later.

Tahnee:

No way.

Roni Edlund:

So we did [inaudible 00:02:50] for three months, but then finally I got it right. So then I messaged him and he got really happy that he heard back from me finally. So then we started talking and then a half year later he went to me in Sweden, I went to see him in England and then I decided to start a life with him in England and stop with horse riding and what I was doing in Sweden. And from there it's from him that I got introduced to all of these things and I just loved Nei Gong and Tai Chi and Shaolin king fu. So I sort of took my practise hours and all that time I used to spend in the stables and sort of put it into Nei Gong and all of these things.

Tahnee:

So you had a discipline already that you were able to transfer that I guess. I mean, I know a little bit about the horse world and it's a lot of work.

Roni Edlund:

It's a lot of work, yeah. Yeah. So I think it felt like such a luxury to me to just go out and be able to practise on a field with your own body and all you need is your body and your mind or meditation. Whereas in a stable, you need quite a lot of finance and you need a lot of time and you need spend a lot of time mucking out poo and all of those things...

Tahnee:

I was thinking that. Didn't want to say it, but I was like, "There's a lot of horse poo involved." My daughter's seven and into horses and I keep saying to her, "There's a lot of hard work ahead if you want to do this."

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. And I think at the same time it is good. It does teach you a lot of stuff, responsibility and discipline and taking care for another animal and putting yourself behind that.

Tahnee:

Well, I think there's that subtle exchange in working with horses and I wonder if, because there's all this equine therapy now and it's awareness of how incredibly healing it is just to be around horses, I wonder if you had this natural instinct for those more subtle realms. Because a lot of people I know who are good horsey people, they have a very strong intuition, a very strong sense of their own self. And I don't know if that comes from horses or if it comes from just those people being attracted to it. But yeah, I wonder if that translates.

Roni Edlund:

I don't know, maybe it attracts slightly more introverted people maybe. So maybe people who listen a little bit more rather than put things out. So I think your listening skills have to get good if you're going to work with horses and animals, I think. As for intuition and those sort of things, I don't know, I wouldn't say particularly that I had much of that. I think for me it was more I loved just losing myself in the horse riding. I think a little bit similar to this practise where you just let go of everything that's in normal life and you're just there in that space or with that horse and you sort of get into the flow or you don't. And I think that was what interests me and how good that makes you feel when you just try to learn and progress and get better at something and use all of you, all of your energy in that.

Tahnee:

Yeah. Like the totality of your presence in that moment. Yeah, I can see how that translates. Yeah. So people probably, if you don't know, if you're a little bit newer to this world, Roni is speaking about Damo Mitchell who was the founder of the Lotus Nei Gong School. Am I correct in saying that?

Roni Edlund:

Yes.

Tahnee:

I know his father was a teacher too. Yeah. Okay. And quite a prolific educator around acupuncture, especially sort of my gathering is more of a classical style and quite rooted in a lot of the Daoist philosophy. And then he's also a teacher of the internal arts. He's running a programme in Bali at the moment, which I believe is a multi-year programme taking students through cultivation practises, which you're participating in and teaching on. Is that right, Roni?

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, yeah. We're a team of six, seven teachers here right now.

Tahnee:

Yeah. And so it's a big enterprise that you guys have put together. I found your or Damo's work through his books and then started to kind of follow you guys and I've been just watching what you guys have built and it's quite an impressive organisation. So you've been there from really the beginning of that?

Roni Edlund:

Actually I think Damo started teaching, I don't know, I think it was maybe eight, nine years before I met him. So he did already have a school when I came into the picture. It was mainly based in England at that time. And then after that we sort of worked, I got incorporated into all of the arts. So after that we worked together and then we went to Sweden for quite a while in the summer. So made the extensive retreat there, because my family has a big farm there, so it was easy for us to hold a longer retreat there for quite a few students. I think with Damo, all of the work that he's doing and the books he's writing, he gets a lot of interest, because he's so good at explaining these arts in a very clear way. So from there the school has grown, because people wants to learn all over the world. So yeah, it's grown naturally really, I guess.

Tahnee:

Yeah, I really see that gift he has in translating what can be quite complex ideas or I think in the hands of maybe teachers who don't have an embodied knowledge of it can get a bit floaty and there's another sense of easy transmission. Whereas I feel with him it's quite grounded. It's funny, he's got his great English accent. Got to love an English accent. I think there's a sense of lightness in his teaching that's really attractive as well. And I feel that in you and I think your book Daoist Nei Gong for Women is how I first heard of your work and I just loved how approachable that book is.

Again, my background is studying more with Mantak Chia and that sort of healing doubt lineage I guess, because that was seemed to be the only access I could find to female practises at the time. I'm from Australia, there wasn't much else. He's in Thailand. It was an easy trip for me to go there and stay at Dow Garden and learn that stuff. And yeah, I do remember sitting down on the first day with Mantak and being like, "I don't understand a single word this guy's saying and I don't know how I'm going to get through weeks here. I just don't know how I'm going to get any of it." But over time I started to learn the way he communicates and it got easier. But yeah, I really noticed that contrast with Damo. I think he's able to really translate a lot of this stuff in a really simple way and it makes it a lot easier. Yeah.

Roni Edlund:

How did you get into all of these things then?

Tahnee:

Well, my interest was through, I guess, yoga it was probably the opening to... My very first yoga teacher I was 15 and he made us create a ball of energy at our lower dantien, which he didn't tell us anything about any of it. He just said, "Hold your hands over your lower abdomen and the energy will condense and hold it and hold it." And he started taking us through some breathing and he would've been in his... I mean I was 15, I thought he was really ancient, but he was probably in his late 60s and being young. I just had this incredible sense of heat and expansion and this big orange ball formed at my lower belly and I was just shocked at that experience. And then I kept trying to find it in yoga and it was never there. I've learned how to find it in yoga since. But yeah, so it took me through a little...

I always wanted to reconnect to that sort of sense of what is that? What is happening there? And so I had an acupuncturist who told me about Mantak's work and gave me one of his books and then that kind of led me to going to study with him. I promised myself when I was young that if someone's work seemed to open up a door for me, I would step in and go and study with him if possible, because I feel like a lot of the masters or people that are teaching, they pass away or you don't get the chance to really see them if you don't go.

So I made the effort and I went and it was really powerful time for me. What really kind of started to make me curious was I was speaking to a lot of the older women there who had chosen not to have children and speaking to them about their practises and how they would control the amount of menstrual blood that they would release and the breast practises and working with the eggs. And we were doing a lot of this stuff and I felt the best I'd ever felt when I left. I honestly feel like I looked like a decade younger, even though I was quite young.

Tahnee:

I just felt so good. And so I thought, "Oh, there's something to this. Even if it's just..." And so I've had children since, life has gotten very busy. But a lot of those core practises I come back to and use still to, I guess, to support me through my parenting journey. But I don't know how my little embryo is going. It's probably not even started.

Roni Edlund:

Do you do a lot of women's Qigong and yoga now? Is that your main aim or do you...

Tahnee:

I personally would. So I have a teacher who, his teacher was a Japanese Shinto priest, not a Daoist priest, but he was very interested in Daoist work. So he was doing a lot of trying to bridge yoga and the Daoist cultivation practises and understand how they connected. And I know not everyone agrees with that approach, but that's kind of been an area of interest for me. So I guess I try to just take what my embodied experience is and then see if I can find the theory or the practise that sort of match and try and understand it. So that's kind of how I've approached it.

Actually this is one of the questions I wanted to ask you, because I was chatting in a Instagram comment with another woman who was in Damo's course and she was talking about when she went through menopause and how potent her energy system became and how she felt this massive shift. And I was sort of saying I had a similar experience after pregnancy and birth where I felt like my body went through this massive upgrade in what I could hold and what I could feel and my sensitivity to energy. And I was curious if you've seen that with your students, children or no, because I think as women we have a different sensitivity to men and I guess that's why I'm interested in how you teach it and why you teach it differently for women. And if you could speak a little bit to that.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. Well, I think there's a great potential delays in menopause, whereas in the west it's always seen as a period of decline and women feel bad, have a lot of hot flushes and all that mental muddleness and stuff. But I think if you can work with it and you know how to boost yourself, then I mean in Daoism, it's supposed to be the second spring, so it's supposed to be that phase where there's a second growth and that growth is the internal growth, the more spiritual side. I mean, I don't know if you don't work with that side, I'm not sure how much of it that takes place, because [inaudible 00:15:16]-

Tahnee:

Can I quickly stop you there? Is that because the menstrual blood is no longer being released and it's being alchemized back within the system? Is that the source of that second spring or do you have another take on that?

Roni Edlund:

I think much because that menstrual blood is not in so much flux anymore and obviously in Chinese medicine daoism, the shen and the spirit and the mind is rooted into the blood and it's very related to the health of the heart. So I think when the blood becomes more stable then there's that potential for a lot of growth around the heart field. And also, because we move into more of a yin phase of our life, when we were younger we were more on a yang phase, more energy, more extroverted, more things moving and we're building life in a different way. But then when we reach second spring in the menopause, we're ageing and moving towards the end phase. So naturally the mind and emotions have more potential to also become more settled and stable. And that's a lot of the basis for the meditation work where if we're able to step back from our mind and the emotions, then there's this space around the heart and that can help us find a deeper awareness, that stable unified awareness that can lead us deeper into the practise.

But I think a lot of women struggle with their health a little bit through menopause. So I think a lot of women in the west could benefit a lot from the Chinese medicine aspect of boosting the yin and the jing and the kidneys to make sure that it's strong enough to support you through that developmental cycle. Because the kidneys and the jing in Chinese medicine, as you know, is very important to be strong for us to be able to go through these seven year cycles that women have. And seven times seven, that's a 49. So it's a 49, that shift, give or take a year is the most healthy time for it to take place. Yeah.

Tahnee:

Yeah, because I wonder there's a whole cultural piece around menopause, which is huge and we can talk for a long time about that. But I think just on a sort of physical level, I think it is such a... Also, it's a big shift for women to go from being a menstruating person to a not menstruating person. And I think there's so much to unpacking that for people, but then there isn't really. I think one of the acupuncturists I spoke to a couple of years ago, she sort of talked about it's when the report card gets handed in, that way in which we live our lives prior to menopause, if we've been depleting our jing, if we've been living out of alignment with ourselves. That really it's an opportunity, I guess, to reassess and redress that kind of the aspects of our life that maybe aren't in alignment.

And I guess I see that if you've had a practise over your earlier years, it does make that transition a bit smoother, because you've maybe been able to process some of that stuff as you go and have the healthy body and the capacity to meet that. But I also see a lot of women getting drawn into this stuff a lot older, because they do lose the responsibility of small children and the reality of building a life with someone and getting a house and all of those things that take you away from practise. So is that something you've noticed? There's no real limit to when you start this work, you can come to it in menopause or you can come to it younger? Is that fair to say?

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, yeah, of course. I think there's this massive benefit to be had from coming at any part of your life. Obviously if you come to it earlier and able to strengthen your chi and your blood, the earlier you do that, the better really. But there is so much we can do with Nei Gong, Qigong, and Chinese medicine to help boost that side up. I think people start to seeking and finding it when it's the right time for them. It's not always the right time. And I remember when I started these things, I thought it was so amazing and how strong the energy work was and everything. So I wanted my whole family to come and join in as well,... to come and join and they try it, but they just didn't get hit by it in the same way as I did. And I found that so strange, but then took me a few years to realise that people just-

Roni Edlund:

... need it at the right time for them and different phases in life. And I think when you have that want or that yearning for something from the inside, I think that's when the practise can have the potential to be really deep and strong.

Tahnee:

Yeah, I think I was talking to someone this morning about this, if you light up when you engage with something, I just think it's such an important thing to follow that thread. And people that are listening to this is obviously something in there that's kind of piqued your interest. And I think it's something I said earlier, I really promised myself that when I feel that little spark of excitement. But I mean I'm the same and I think it's a really natural thing early on in any, when you find something you love, you become the messiah and you start trying to convert everybody. And I remember doing that with my father with yoga. He is a whitewater river guide, so his whole life is spent on the river and in a very kind of what you were describing with the horses, it's him with the river and his clients and trying to navigate this thing.

And he's like, "I enter this flow state and I'm completely at one with the river and everything's in harmony." And I'm like, "Oh, it sounds like yoga." And he's like, "Yeah, it's my yoga." And I remember being really humbled by, you don't need to do yoga to have that experience. And I was like, "Oh, you've got your own version of it." But yeah, I sort of see that with these things you can become a bit like, "Everybody should do this, so go have acupuncture. It's amazing." It's like, "Look, if it's not your thing, it's not your thing." But it takes so much..., I think, to get there.

Roni Edlund:

And I think also through menopause, particularly, if you are someone who don't have an interest in meditation or the internal arts, then finding an art or something where you can express freely so this heart energy can grow. I think that's another way of letting that shift, helping yourself grow with that.

Tahnee:

And through the hands, right? Because that's one of the ways I often think of getting into craft or you think of, I mean this might be a cultural thing, but older women and they're incredible gifts with, they've become masters of their craft by the time they hit menopause. And I think that the things they make with their hands are so... It's an expression of them, of their heart, of their shen. I think that's a very beautiful way to continue this stuff if not through Nei Gong.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, and then having the base foundation of how to look after yourself much from the Chinese medicine thought of knowing which food types help and nourish your yin and your jing and maybe the blood if you someone who had problems with menstruation through your life, eating all those things that are good meats and green leafy vegetables and bone marrow and beetroot, goji berries. I mean you can find all of these things to help nourish those things. And I think if that isn't strong enough than utilising Chinese medicine herbs. And I think compared to the western medicine and getting hormone replacement therapy and those sort of things, Chinese medicine is so much more holistic for women. I think also through menstruation before that, there's so many things. I mean if we learned in school how we can read our menstrual blood, what it means with our internal balance, that would be so good, wouldn't it?

Tahnee:

Oh, I think that's one of the things that, it's the reason I started receiving acupuncture was I was in my mid-20s and I'd been on the pill since I was 16, because I got with my partner at the time then and my mom was like, "I don't care what you do, but you're going on the pill, you're not getting pregnant." And that was kind of the deal. So I moved in with him and all that sort of stuff. And so I did, I just went on the pill without really educating myself about it. And I took it for 10 years and then I stopped and I didn't bleed for two years, because I had blood stagnation, which I didn't know what that was at the time. And I tried everything. I went to the doctor and they told me it was normal and it would just come back one day and I was like, "But how is it normal for a 26-year-old girl not to bleed?"

And I was kind of trying to find answers and that's how I came through acupuncture and Chinese medicine and that sort of first restored my relationship with my body and that restored my menstrual cycle. And then I found Mantaks work. And I think learning to connect as a woman to my body in that way was just a gift. We don't really get given any real education about our bodies as young women. Certainly in Australia, my school, the education was pretty poor and my mom is of that generation where you don't really talk about it. You just women bleed and here's some pads, good luck.

Roni Edlund:

And also I think that that knowledge isn't really there to very high level either. Even when you go to the doctors and stuff, if you do have problems with your menstruation, it's so often prescribing a pill is the answer and [inaudible 00:25:47].

Tahnee:

Which just suppresses the symptoms long term. You end up having to go off it to conceive say, and then you've got the problem you had 10 years ago, plus probably some blood and chi stagnation and some other stuff. It's like cool, [inaudible 00:26:01]-

Roni Edlund:

Maybe some cold too as well if the contraceptive period or contraceptive pill made that ming fire die out. And I think cold is also quite a usual [inaudible 00:26:12].

Tahnee:

Yeah, and that was something I wondered about coming to... Because I remember not feeling that same fire in my belly that I'd felt at 15 and I was like, "Oh, is it just because older now?" But I guess I've not connected the dots with the pill suppressing that fire, but it makes a lot of sense [inaudible 00:26:31] would cause that stagnation. Yeah.

So I mean like anything, the younger you start this stuff, the better. But yeah, what's your take on if women are interested in this? The book's pretty detailed in terms of mapping out a process and beginning practises and postures and the Wuji stance and starting to get people just connecting I guess to their energy system and their body. But I know you've got your course coming up. Do you think this is something we can learn through books and online programmes, or would you recommend someone get a teacher first and get interested in Qigong and then start to look at Nei Gong? Or how do you think people should approach that?

Roni Edlund:

Well, in the past few years ago we were saying we will never put stuff online, because it's not traditional and it's not a good way to learn. You have to have a teacher and the influence of the energetic transmission and all of that. But then we did realise that-

Tahnee:

[inaudible 00:27:39].

Roni Edlund:

... there is a lot you can learn online. And from what we've seen, I think we've had the online programme for maybe four or five years now. And the people who put in regular practise and really sincerely go for it, they do get some really strong effects actually. And they do manage to activate the load and get the heat and some of that movement going. So that's really nice to see, because obviously not everyone are able to travel around the world to find different teachers and obviously the theory bit and all of that, that you can learn online and that helps shape your mind and your understanding and how you relate to life and your energy and your practise.

So yeah, I changed my mind on that. I think there is a lot you can learn from online teaching and books if you apply yourself to it. But obviously if you do go and see a teacher in person, if they're skilled, they're able to transmit the energy into the room and help people along with the process in a different way. So I think people that have trained with us online, when they come to live courses afterwards, they say that it was a major boost or a push and it's just hyper boosted the progression and everything that's going on so their blood's coming, even though they've managed to start the process by themselves before that.

And I think the beautiful thing with the internal arts and Nei Gong is that the hardest part can be in the beginning when you're trying to consolidate the energy and get your mind in the right place and get the channels a little bit more open. But once you get consolidated enough and the energy starts to build in the lower dantien and push around the system, it's like a ball rolling down a hill. When it starts to catch that speed, it just unfolds.

Tahnee:

The momentum. Mm-hmm.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, and I love that you can step back [inaudible 00:29:51].

Tahnee:

Yeah, it's less effort. Yeah, I really had that experience and I also have had it coming back from, so I had my first child. So she's seven now, and after her, we went into this very intensive period of we wanted to buy a house and the area we live in is very expensive and we were just going to knuckle down and we're going to work and we're going to get a deposit and get ourselves ready to buy a house. And I really neglected myself for a couple of years and I came back to practise probably after when she was around three.

And I remember feeling like I can't feel anything, and I was a mom, I was exhausted, I was like, "It's gone," and it wasn't gone. But it was a really confronting feeling to almost go back to being a beginner in a sense and just not have that natural knack, I guess that I felt like I've been fortunate to have or feel things quite quickly and easily. It was really interesting and I really had to put in effort and it made me appreciate more how hard it can be. Yeah, [inaudible 00:31:01]-

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. When you get exhausted, everything is so much harder with energy work, doesn't it? Even if we've had a big flight or a jet lag and you try to practise afterwards, you just so empty, nothing happens.

Tahnee:

Yeah. You're like, hello. Yeah. And I wonder, do you guys have any advice on how to navigate that? Is it just pacing yourself and going a bit slower or do you find rest and food and all of those things and you start to feel... I mean, I feel like you guys would bounce back fairly quickly and not chasing toddlers around, maybe you have a few that's lingering.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. Oh my god, having kids that's a whole other level of exhaustion, isn't it? So you mean in general how to-

Tahnee:

Yeah, because you're talking about long haul flights and you guys are fairly experienced and you do notice a dip in your energy. Do you continue to practise at the same depth and frequency or do you give yourself a bit of space or how do you guys navigate that sort of fatigue?

Roni Edlund:

Okay, yeah, yeah. If you get tired for some reason, then more rest, just as simple as that. Rest more, do something chill, watch a film.

Tahnee:

Lie down.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. And also maybe just do easy things, just breathing practise, just being with your breath and gently... If I'm really exhausted, then I like doing gentle dantien work and breathing and just letting that energy come back at its own pace and just see it as part of it and not try to push myself further or expect big things to happen on that day.

Tahnee:

Ain't that a journey of learning? Yeah, I think that's something I've really had to learn as a mother. And I mean, I guess it's something I remember hearing from a teacher when I was in my early 20s and they were talking about in a lot of cultures there's an acceptance that if you're choosing the path of the household or you're in it until you're probably in your 50s and then that's when you start really getting into your spiritual practise. I remember thinking, "Oh, that's a long time." But I kind of also appreciate what they're saying that I feel like I'm maintaining myself at a level of health and vitality and trying to maintain my energy. I don't really feel like I'm always at the point of cultivating at this stage.

Yeah, I definitely have noticed having a second child, I was more diligent and I guess also knowing what was coming, I was more prepared, more nourished and all those things going into that pregnancy. And so I didn't find the second child, the transition, as difficult. But yeah, it's just something I've noticed personally. And one, I wonder how many women are there? I feel like the school is skewed a little bit more on the male side. Would that be fair to say?

Roni Edlund:

Well, I think after COVID when the school had to move online for two years, then we did get a bigger influence or income of men, because I think for some reason men engage more in online platforms. I don't know why. But before that we were actually 50/50.

Tahnee:

Oh, wow. Okay.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, I think actually in the beginning, beginning it was slightly more men, but then we brought in the Women's Nei Gong book and tried to put a little bit more of the women's side on the website to show women that there's also this part of it. So then it did become 50/50. So now it's COVID, I think it's a little bit more men again. But now I really want to put more of this women's Nei Gong side onto our online platform as well, because I think that that should have a space. If people are looking for things online, it should be there together with the Nei Gong, Tai Chi in the background, all that.

Tahnee:

Yeah. So just for people at home. So the Lotus Nei Gong website has an internal arts academy, I'm using the right words, and that's a subscription based academy that goes over a period of time. So you're creating a version for women, am I understanding that correct?

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, yeah, we're just putting it in with all the other things. So it would be one of the courses that you can access inside there.

Tahnee:

Awesome. So yeah, so you're going to get all of the existing content and then for women who are interested in cultivation specific content for their practise.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, yeah.

Tahnee:

Okay. Amazing. If you were talking to the lay person, what would you say are the main differences between the female and the male approach to Nei Gong? I know it's not exactly the easiest question. Like they're completely different energy systems.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. Well, for the first part, in the activation phase, we teach men and women in the same way, because we all have lower dantien, middle dantien, upper dantien. We have limbs, we have a body, we have organs. There's a lot of things that are the same. And to start with and to get everything active and working, we just need the engine started. So pressurising the lower dantien and getting the chi nice and strong so it circulates stronger inside the body and everything becomes more efficient, because the viewers, when we go from a child to an adult into older age, that things slow down and we get injuries and things get blocked up. So we're just trying to regain that natural flow and then build on it further so it gets stronger and stronger. So we have a lot of juice and power for the meditation practise later in life.

But then because women are a little bit more, I mean, we act a little bit more from our emotional centre, and this energy centre is more dominant, the heart field a little more dominant for women. Whereas in men, they're a little bit more, in general, practical minded and more rooted in the lower dantien and that kind of energy. So in general, men will have to spend a little bit more time on the lower dantien and women a little bit more on the middle dantien. And that's also because we leak jing and chi from these different places in different ways, because of this centre being close to the heart and the emotional centre. And women storing the jing, the vital essence in the breasts means that emotional, strong emotional pulls leaks this energy a little bit stronger for women. So women benefit from a little bit more work on settling this field and consolidating the middle dantien. Whereas men leak more jing from sex and so they have more work to do in the lower dantien. And then obviously for-

Tahnee:

Very grateful to be a woman, just want to put that out there. I love that we can have sex and not leak our jing. That's great for us.

Roni Edlund:

In balance of course.

Tahnee:

In balance, yeah.

Roni Edlund:

Anything too much isn't good, is it?

Tahnee:

Yeah, it's funny. My husband is always working on restraining his ejaculation and I'm always like, "Good luck, mate." Yeah.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. And then obviously the connection with the moon and the benefit we have as women to connect with it and let that naturally nourish the flow through the central channel and the menstrual blood and consolidation of the jing. Yeah.

Tahnee:

So I wanted to step on that, because this is a part of the theory that I just love, and especially as someone who's breastfed now a couple of times. We do have this storehouse of jing around the breasts and through the Chiang Mai that's connected to the uterus. And correct me if I'm wrong, because you're the acupuncturist, but I'm just hoping I'm getting this right. And then through when we breastfeed, it's sort of in part, part of this blood system and it becomes the breast milk, which I just think is this beautiful alchemy that the body does in its ultimate wisdom. But also that that's something when we're doing cultivation practises, we're trying to keep some of that jing at the breast region in order to support this heart field, this middle dantien, and the side effects of that as we get nice perky boobs as we get older.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, it should be less sagging. [inaudible 00:40:07].

Tahnee:

Am I giving a fair enough summary of that and the practises I learn breast massage and these kinds of things. I mean, I don't do them. I mean, I do a version of them when I'm breastfeeding that are more for just caring for myself. But yeah, I find that they're also very beautiful practises just in terms of connecting to ourselves. And has that been your experience as well? Just how it gives you a sense of, I find just a sense of awe and wonder, this energetic system of the body, it's quite incredible. And the way it was mapped by the Daoist's, I just think we don't even come close to touching it in the west to explain these functions.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think particularly with the breast massage or the chi going around here, I think firstly has such a big calming aspect, because I think it affects the emotions. And I think when we step back from that aspect of ourselves that's a little bit too entangled in our annoyances or our problems, I think that's like a release, isn't it? Release around this centre and-

Tahnee:

Yeah, like you said earlier, like a softening and a widening of that. And it gives you more, I call it, the bandwidth. It expands so you have more capacity to... It's almost like an energetic buffer in a way. Things come in and out, but you're less wrapped around it.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, it's very cool how we have these tools where you can connect with that. I think in general life, sometimes you do connect with these aspects of yourself and those feelings. But yeah, I think [inaudible 00:41:48] and Nei Gong is so cool how it's mapped up or mapped out all this system and we can access it in different ways and work with it.

Tahnee:

Yeah, it's so beautiful. And so if we're talking about for women, yes, there's more of a focus on this middle dantien. I mean, we're still activating the lower dantien in the early stages, and I'm wondering if your take on that earlier stage of cultivation, the effect that can... Because my experience was my menstrual cycle got really regular to the point where I wouldn't even really know it was coming, and then I knew it was coming, because I would track it and the moon and things. But I'd have maybe the day before a little bit of tightening in my fascia, my lower back, and then I'd be bleeding and there was no PMS, just a very clean blood. And then I just was like, "Wow, it was so cool to just have a really easy cycle." I don't need to punch my partner. I don't need to lie down with a whole water bottle. Such a great side effect. Is that a common side effect you've seen through the cultivation practises or do you [inaudible 00:42:57]-

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think maybe in the first stage, if there is an imbalance there, I think the body and the lower dantien helps to clear out. So sometimes women can have a heavy bleed or maybe the first cycle becomes irregular or also clearing out in other things with diarrhoea and stuff like that. So I think that first step in the dantien activation in the Nei Gong can often be a little bit chaotic, because just-

Tahnee:

Yeah, wobbly.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, [inaudible 00:43:33]. Yeah, then after that it should be more steady and more regular and hopefully the blood getting stronger. I remember doing acupuncture on a woman and she was a vegan for a long time, so the blood was deficient from a Chinese medicine perspective. So she'd had brown and very light blood for a very long time, and we did some acupuncture and then she contacted me and said, "Oh, I think I'm bleeding. It's like super red. Is it supposed to be like this?" She thought something was wrong.

Tahnee:

Yeah, because she'd not had that normal... Yeah, I think that's the thing I hear so much is how so many women struggle through that part of this, their life, and it's just, yeah, there are these systems that really... And acupuncture is incredible. I just think such a powerful way to, in a more passive way, I guess, connect with your body and receive that nourishment as well. Which a lot of women, I think are so used to giving out energy that they don't often allow themselves to take it in. I mean, do you practise to reduce your menstrual cycle or do you not really interfere with that? I'm curious.

Roni Edlund:

No, I practise to try to make the blood as strong as possible and the chi as strong as possible so it can support my Nei Gong process. Ideally want to have the menstrual cycle regular and no clots and those sort of things. I think the practise of cutting the red dragon, stopping the menstrual flow and stuff can be a bit dangerous for creating stagnation and stuff. I think as women, that monthly flow of the blood is very useful for releasing stored emotions and it's like a clearing phase of the month. And if we don't get that clearing phase, I think it can be negative for the blood flow for the mind and for the health. I mean, there are ancient practise of cutting that red dragon, but I think that was for women far away in monastery not having daily stresses and probably being very far up in the process.

Tahnee:

No husbands. [inaudible 00:46:03]. No, I really agree with that. That was a part of what a lot of the older women would talk to me about. And I remember being really interested in it. One of them said she controlled hers to be a teaspoon a month, so she could still bleed a little bit, but not keep a lot of that jing. And she looked great for her age. I remember thinking there's obviously something to it, but I also, after having not bled for a couple of years, I was like, "I just don't ever want to not have that release I suppose." It just feels good to me to have that natural cycle. So yeah, I feel you in that. Although I don't have any evidence for why. [inaudible 00:46:43]. And yeah, it's like when I'm breastfeeding and I don't bleed, I really miss my cycle and it's always really lovely when it returns.

I'd love to segue that into pregnancy. Your book talks a little bit about the energetic phases of pregnancy, and it's kind of a general rule in, or as I understand it, in the cultivation circles that you just don't, when you're pregnant, you leave it alone. I still do practise things like microcosmic orbit. And I'm curious as to your take on that if that's not a good idea or not. I mean, I guess I practise in a gentle way when I'm in this phase of my life. I'm not out there doing hours of anything. But yeah, I'm curious as to what your take on that is, because I remember reading in the book that Damo, I think, might've written it or you yourself that it just said, "Leave it all alone. There's enough going on in the body during pregnancy, you don't need to add anything."

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, yeah. Well, as for going in the strong Nei Gong process, we don't recommend doing that, because obviously that would be squeezing the energy strongly around the lower abdomen and the dantien, and not intentionally, but I mean the energetic effect will be that. So yeah, we wouldn't advise people to that sort of thing. Yeah, and the body is building this amazing life inside of you. So what we suggest for women to do is to just focus on that and keep yourself as healthy and happy as you can and just keep it gentle, keep your body moving in a good way. But yeah, we advise stay away from most of the energetics, but I think in your case it might be different, I mean, you're used to doing it. And I'm sure you can listen to your body and know what might be too much and not.

Tahnee:

I mean, I've found a lot of stuff is self-regulating, like pranayama. I was like, "Well, I can't even hold my breath anymore, because I've got no lung capacity." It's one of the first symptoms of pregnancy for me is my lung capacity disappears. It comes back in the second trimester and then goes away again in the third. So I'm just like, okay. So yeah, I feel like a lot of energetic stuff has become, and then you're tired and you're not devoted to... Admitting my laziness, but yeah, it's just like I'm going to lie out instead. But I think there's a very natural-

Roni Edlund:

Maybe that's the good thing in pregnancy, you can just be lazy when you want to.

Tahnee:

Yeah, well, definitely, it's the excuse. But yeah, I haven't had things like morning sickness and I'm curious, I can't again prove any of the correlation, but I've often wondered if... I especially find the emotional clearing and that sort of work of working with organs and tuning in, I guess, to where I'm at emotionally, that's a big part of what I feel like has helped me have easy pregnancies. And that's a theory, I don't know, but I wonder if you have any evidence as to if you see that in clinic or... Because that's one of the big benefits I've found in starting to do this work was I feel like I just shed a lot of really old... There was a messy, like you said, the wobbly stage of very destabilised and very, "I don't know who I am anymore." But then that sort of stabilising into feeling a lot more ease in terms of my emotional capacity.

Roni Edlund:

During pregnancy, you mean?

Tahnee:

I guess I mean more pre, and then I'm wondering if that sort of would correlate to having easier pregnancies coming into pregnancy, having done some of this work. Yeah, because I remember with my daughter just thinking, is it because I've done yoga for so long? I don't know why it's so easy.

It was a little bit more challenging with my son's pregnancy, my second one in terms of the emotional stuff. And that's what really made me think about it. I noticed that a lot of my symptoms when I actually unpacked them were correlated to an emotional thing that was going on that I hadn't expressed. And when I expressed it, my symptom would disappear. And I'm like, "Oh, I actually don't want to kill my husband," example one. I felt myself holding fluid at one point and then I was like, "Okay, that's some stuff going on with my mom." And I kind of went through that and I was like, "Oh, okay. That symptom disappeared." So yeah, I wonder if you have any take on that, because there's such a relationship between emotion and physical symptom in Chinese medicine.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. I mean, I don't have any experiential understanding of pregnancies, but as with anything, if there's a lot of emotions going on that will create an energetic effect inside of the body and it won't be neutral or harmonised. So I'm sure you're right, I'm sure that will place a big role in how your pregnancy goes and obviously the health of your body in general. So I think the best thing women can do getting ready for pregnancy is just taking care of themselves emotionally and physically and using Chinese medicine to help regulate all those internal systems in a way that just western pills don't do it.

Tahnee:

No. And even I think western preconception, which is so focused on nutrition and vitamins and things, but not always on that, I guess more holistic dimension of being a human, being a woman. And so in terms of the space you recommend around, if you had a student who was in your school and they were to become pregnant, you would say, "See you on the other side?" What kind of timeline would you recommend in terms of returning to practise? Or do you find that women have babies and they disappear and then they come back when they're 50? Or what happens?

Roni Edlund:

Well, when they feel ready. I think it's quite individual, isn't it? Because some people pop back quite quickly and some people need a little bit longer. So I think it depends how you feel inside, but I think...

Tahnee:

So there's no rule of thumb with breastfeeding or anything like that that you wouldn't...

Roni Edlund:

No, no, no. No, just come back again when you feel like your body is healthy enough and strong enough to do it.

Tahnee:

Yeah. Too tapped out and exhausted.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, and I wanted to ask you, how do you juggle kids and practise and these projects you're doing with the podcast? And I saw you were teaching something yesterday [inaudible 00:53:42].

Tahnee:

Yeah. Well, that was a big part of my early rage with my son's pregnancy. I feel like his pregnancy was a really big catalyst for me to start being honest about my capacity. So my husband and I have a tonic herb company, and he started it when I met him. I guess a little bit with Damo, I moved to be with him and I joined his team. I had a business, I had a yoga studio, which I left and I came to work for him and I was really grateful for that, because I had been studying Chinese herbalism, but got to actually live it and apply it in a different way. And I loved building the business with him. But in COVID in 2020, I said to him, "I don't want to do this anymore. I really miss my work. I miss teaching. I miss my world that I'd built, and I want to go back to that. And I'm really grateful for everything that this business has given us. We were able to buy a home and all of that stuff. I'm so grateful, but I want to go back."

And he was so supportive. He was like, "Yes, we'll do it." And then three years later I was still there and I was just really frustrated and I felt like we just didn't have a good plan and all of those things. And so got pregnant with my son and I just was like, "I have to change things." And so that was just this big catalyst of me really having to push to get myself out of the business and be able to create space and put our children... My daughter went into daycare really early. We had to do a lot of things that I felt were not completely aligned with my preferences as a parent.

And my husband's great. We worked four days each, took a day each with my daughter. She was in daycare for three days, so it wasn't like she was there all the time, but it was just, yeah, I wanted to be with my children and I wanted to focus selfishly on myself and my practises. Yeah. So that was the big catalyst. So that was two and a half years ago, I guess. So yeah, I stepped right back. I don't work for the business anymore. My husband completely runs it and has a team. So I actually only started teaching this year, not planning to be pregnant again. And we very bad habit of saying, "Let's have another baby," and getting pregnant like that night. I don't know why we do it.

Roni Edlund:

And how far gone are you now?

Tahnee:

I'm only 10 weeks. So yeah, we manifest very quickly, children. Be careful what you wish for. But I'm super grateful to be pregnant again. I just wouldn't have probably chosen to teach an eight-week course over... But I'm lucky. It's my first trimester. I don't feel sick. I'm a little bit tired, but I'm doing fine. And I took a big step back from anything that wasn't a creative, I love doing the podcast. It's just really fun. Something I really enjoy. And you guys have a business, you know you have to do stuff sometimes that you don't want to do, but yeah, it's great to be-

Roni Edlund:

Do you have help? Do have help from grandparents a lot or...

Tahnee:

No. So my mother-in-Law on my partner's side is mentally disabled. She had an aneurysm 11 years ago now. So she's in a wheelchair and has full-time care. So we actually have a lot of responsibility on that side. My father-in-law has passed away. And then my parents are in far north Queensland, which in Australia, that's about 2500 kilometres away. It's like right at the top of the [inaudible 00:57:32], if you know the tropical part of Australia.

So no, we have a nanny once a week. My daughter's in school now, which helps. And then I do things in nap times. I practise either early in the morning or late at night, unfortunately, depending on when I can. I often practise in the middle of the day, like this time when we're talking. Yeah, I find I fit it in, but I remember reading something a long time ago that was like, if you want to do it, you'll make it happen. We have so much time for all these things and we don't... I could easily sit on social media for an hour or I could practise. So I just try to be really good at noticing where I'm leaking energy and yeah.

Roni Edlund:

Having a nanny must be so useful if you don't have any grandparents around. That must be so [inaudible 00:58:19].

Tahnee:

Yeah, she's a close friend and my son just thinks she's the ants pants, so they do like a 9:00 to 4:00 day together and yeah.

Roni Edlund:

I used to do a lot of babysitting when I was younger.

Tahnee:

Did you?

Roni Edlund:

Yes. All the neighbouring houses they had kids and I was the one who was the right age.

Tahnee:

The teenager.

Roni Edlund:

So I was hired by everyone for a while. And yeah, I think maybe that was what put me off kids a little bit.

Tahnee:

Well, I've found, and this is maybe something that I wonder about, because when I used to talk to these women that didn't have children, and I really don't want to say you shouldn't have children, but one thing that I noticed was my heart field thing that you talk about. When I would lie in bed the night after my daughter was born, I actually didn't sleep the entire night, because I just felt like my heart was like... I was like, "I can't even feel the end of me. I feel like I'm so open." And I remember everything was just in that field. Those kind of experiences at birth for me has been like [inaudible 00:59:38].

Roni Edlund:

That must be magical.

Tahnee:

Yeah, and I don't want to say I'm addicted to birth, but I find that there's so much I get out of birth that I'm like, "Wow, it's different." It's not the same as cultivation practise, but it's transformative in another way. And so I feel like that was something I'm supposed to do in this lifetime and I'm really grateful for the opportunity to do it. And my children have both been born at home and naturally so I've had really good births and been able to experience them fully and yeah, it's very special.

Roni Edlund:

That sounds nice.

Tahnee:

Yeah. So I think it's different, right? I'm sure you've been in [inaudible 01:00:16] and had your time, and-

Roni Edlund:

I've seen what you're talking about on my sister now, when she's had a kid. She's totally changed. The amount of love that comes out of her eyes and her voice. She's got a mother voice now. Whatever you say, you sound super caring and loving.

Tahnee:

Nurturing, yeah. Even if you're like...

Roni Edlund:

And it's so sweet. And just her face, just her whole expression is so different and she looks so much more happy and in her [inaudible 01:00:53], and she walks around and she's singing and yeah, I've never seen her like that before. So it's very beautiful and I think kids are super beautiful [inaudible 01:01:03], because they're so pure and they don't have all of these learned patterns and stored dramas and all of that yet, do they? [inaudible 01:01:14].

Tahnee:

Yeah, they're joy. And their presence, and that was something I actually remember having my daughter and being like, "Oh my God, I thought I was really good at being present, but I'm really not," because she would ask me to be present and I'd struggle so hard with getting on. And they slow you down in a way that I think, which has really challenged me as well. I like to be turbo and go, go, go. And it's like I can't do that. So when you asked about how do I balance it out, I've had to put breaks on myself so hard. But again, I've noticed that's been to my benefit even though it was hard. I believe life just gives you what you need. I think that's the unfolding of the doubt.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that love that comes out of your relationship with your kids, nothing tops that I can imagine.

Tahnee:

Yeah. Well, I've often thought, this is a thought I've had, and I don't know if I could ever prove it, but I often wondered if a lot of these traditions came about through... We think about the womb and what happens in the womb and the magic of human existence. And it's like, I think it's so much of what all these cultivation traditions and they're all trying to experience that in a way. They want to get close to that. And I think that's something from being pregnant and giving birth, and it's the closest I've come to that Stargate portal of the actual experience of how life becomes life. And I think on some level, I think we're all pointing to that experience. How do you have that experience without pregnancy and birth? Well, this is the way, this is the map. And again, I can't prove that, but it's something I've thought about a lot.

Roni Edlund:

And I've heard a few women say that they feel a presence of their child before they conceive or before they become pregnant.

Tahnee:

That happened with me. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter, not my son, but my daughter.

Roni Edlund:

In what way did you experience that?

Tahnee:

So three months before I conceived her, I was teaching a retreat with my husband. We used to teach on this property, not quite the Swedish forest, but a friend of ours owns this incredible farm. It's a permaculture farm up in the mountains in the area of Byron Bay where we live. And she would allow us to take up to 20 people there and we'd do yoga and different types of practises and sometimes fasting and things. And so my husband and I, we weren't husband and wife at that point, but we were facilitating together. And I was on a break-down by the creek and I was lying naked in the sun and I had this feeling of a bird fly into my womb and then this sort of really warm, golden presence all around my body. And I had this thought, I'm going to be pregnant, and this is the child and it's a little bird.

And I remember going like, "Oh, that's very weird." And I didn't want to say anything to my partner at the time, because we were kind of not really having babies. We were still just kind of working out where we're going to live and all that kind of stuff. And then that night we were making love actually. And he said to me, "God, I feel like there was a presence with us tonight." He's like, "Is this what it feels like to make a baby?" And I was like, "I've had that with me all day. It's funny. You can feel that too." And then nothing happened. We kind of both forgot about it. And then, anyway, when I was pregnant with her, I used to meditate and she'd come to me as a little bird and she wrote her name in the sky, not in the sky, but in the sky of my meditation when I was practising . And I was so connected to her throughout whole pregnancy. So she was a very strong presence for me. My son, I have no idea. I was like, "Hello? Is there anybody in [inaudible 01:05:26]."

Roni Edlund:

Oh, really. How interesting.

Tahnee:

Yeah. And he is such a dense little guy. Someone just said to me this morning that kid's going to be a footballer. And he's just like... He's all solid and can kick a ball. He's not even two, and he can do all this crazy stuff with his body, but [inaudible 01:05:46].

Roni Edlund:

I wonder if that's a thing for other women if they feel more of a connection if it's a girl or not.

Tahnee:

Yeah, I've spoken to a couple of people who've shared the experience, and some have had it with all of their children, regardless of gender. I only had it with that first baby. This baby I'm pregnant with now I haven't had any of that either. So yeah, I'm really unsure about how that works. I just remember being so shocked. I later found out that in some traditions they say the soul of the baby visits the parents to choose them three months, like a quarter before the pregnancy. And I remember thinking like, "Wow, that's so crazy." Anyway.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. I think that's so cool that just experiencing a spirit at that point, coming down through your body into the world.

Tahnee:

Yeah, I guess I'd had a few supernatural experiences before that, but it was a very beautiful experience. And to be pregnant with that child and then to meet her, I was like, "Oh, I know you. Yeah, you came to me." So yeah, it was really special.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. I've also heard that from an art teacher that the presence or the being comes into the woman before conception and then-

Tahnee:

But they kind of come in and out, is that I understand. I mean, I don't know if you know the same information, but I've understood that the spirit doesn't really settle in the child until... I can't remember the point, but it's a little bit later in the development process of the foetus.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. I think also later, because I think some reasons for miscarriage can be due to if there's not a match between the baby and the mother.

Tahnee:

Yeah. And I felt that with my daughter, where I'd be really connected to her for a while and then not feel her for a little while. And after she was born, I remember having this phenomenon of when I'd meditate there'd be a golden cord between her and I. She wasn't physically connected to me, and it lasted until she was probably about, I think, three or four months old, maybe a little bit longer, but-

Roni Edlund:

Wow. Interesting.

Tahnee:

I actually haven't ever looked into what that is, but I just remember it being this... Every time I'd meditate, I'd be plugged into her with this golden cord and I was like, "Oh, that's so funny." And then it just stopped being there one day and...

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. All of that magical side of birth and the love that comes out of it, all of that is very appealing to me despite all of the hard work.

Tahnee:

Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to say that, I haven't slept in two years. That's great. One thing I noticed is you adapt. And someone said to me, "The days are long, but the years are short," and I really felt that with my kids, it's quite quick that they stop being dependent little critters, and they start branching out into the world. So yeah, it's a funny one. But yeah, I want to just bring it back to your work, because I feel like we could chit-chat all day. I think, is there anything else you wanted to touch on or offer into the space? Because I'd love to just direct people now to your website and to your book and just get them to start to connect in. I think you've obviously got such a wealth of knowledge and I'm so excited to see. I'm actually a member of the Internal Arts Academy, so I'm looking forward to seeing your-

Roni Edlund:

Oh, are you? Okay, nice.

Tahnee:

Yeah, I'm not very far in. I only signed up a couple of months ago.

Roni Edlund:

Is that the Nei Gong aspect or which-

Tahnee:

Yeah, I'm just doing the week by week release one. Yeah. I guess as someone in Australia with children, it's such a great offering. I'm so glad you guys decided to go online. I think it really does-

Roni Edlund:

You're welcome. Yeah, we haven't been able to reach Australia before, but now when we're in Bali first time in all these years we've got Australian students.

Tahnee:

Yeah. Well, actually, so Jackson Collings is, he is one of my teacher's sons. Hello, Jane and Jackson, if you're listening.

Roni Edlund:

Yeah. Yeah, I gathered the other day. Yeah.

Tahnee:

Yeah, so that's been really nice too. I actually reached out to him, because he did a really beautiful illustration of the Neijing Tu, the alchemy art, and I was like, "Oh, that's such a great drawing, such a great rendering of it." And yeah, he was just saying he's not really happy with it. It's not finished, but yeah.

Roni Edlund:

Oh, really? He's such a lovely person. I'm sure his mom is amazing too.

Tahnee:

Yeah, she's an incredible woman. We're very lucky to have her in the world. But yeah, and could you tell us a little bit, just to wrap up, I've heard Damo say this is his big last hurrah. I wonder if that's true, but to do this big push to take people through the sort of inner alchemy work over a period of years, and then he's going to have a bit of a break from teaching. Is that the plan? Is that what you guys are sort of manifesting?

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, I think part of the idea of being here, having this full-time school for some parts of the year, is part of him wanting to put as much as he can of that into a group that wants to be here for a couple years or five years or however long, we'll see. And then he would like a little bit of a break or step back from the public eye a little bit, he said. I do know that whenever he does have a break from teaching that after a few weeks, or maybe it would be a few months now, that he feels that push. He wants to teach, he wants to have students around again. So we'll see what happens with that. But I'm guessing, because he's taught quite a lot of people now, and we have quite a lot of good teachers in the school, so I think he would like to rely on them spreading the teachings a little bit more, and then maybe in the future just see a smaller group, maybe sometimes I would guess maybe do less big public things.

Tahnee:

Sure. That makes sense.

Roni Edlund:

Well, we'll see. We'll see what happens.

Tahnee:

No fixed plans. Yeah, it's such a great [inaudible 01:12:48].

Roni Edlund:

He's also still working on this Shan Tian College is name of the Chinese medicine, [inaudible 01:12:55] involved there.

Tahnee:

Yeah, which looks amazing.

Roni Edlund:

So I think there'll be a few more things happening with that in the future as well, because that Chinese medicine aspect is quite important. But I think he sees this period now as being probably the last period of his martial arts teaching, because he's also getting older. He's not that old, but he says he does feel quite different from when he was 20, 30. Where's he now, is he 40? What year is it? 44. 44 I think he is.

Tahnee:

'24, yeah. Yeah. I think that's a natural progression as well to want to let your students carry the work forward and see what they do with it. Yeah, so for those of you who want to get a copy, the Daoist Nei Gong for Women is the book Roni's coauthored with Damo. It's so good. A few of my friends have got it and they love it. And yeah, I really enjoyed reading it myself. I've got it on my Kindle too, so I read at nighttime and daytime reading. And then we've also got the upcoming course, so we'll put the links to that in the show note. But it's on the internal academy part of the Lotus Nei Gong website. And then people can find you on social media. Are there any other ways to stay in touch with you, Roni, if they want to connect?

Roni Edlund:

No, no, I think, yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, Instagram, Facebook sometimes.

Tahnee:

Yes, and Roni Edlund on Instagram. We'll put links to all of those things in the show notes so people can find you. But I wanted to thank you so much for your time today. It's been such a pleasure to connect with you. I thought we'd get along just from [inaudible 01:14:31].

Roni Edlund:

Yeah, thank you. Yeah. It's so nice to meet you and having a chat with you.

Tahnee:

You too. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. And yeah, maybe have a chat another time. But I'm super grateful and I'm really looking forward to seeing this new course. So thank you again.

Roni Edlund:

Thank you.

Tahnee:

Thanks, Roni.